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Post by metrailway on Mar 25, 2012 13:48:26 GMT
Hello all, I am new to the forum this being my first post and I am hoping someone out there can help with a query I have. I am going to try and model the train that delivered the 1983 stock when new, which I believe originated in Birmingham and came south via Aylesbury and Amersham. The train consisted of two brake vans with barrier/adapter wagons, the six? car set and the train locomotive, as illustrated in the link below. www.class25.info/photograph_pages/individual_photos/840000_25_Amersham3.htmI was wondering if anyone could supply any further information or photos of these workings? Things such as the delivery period, the time of day of the working, brake van/wagon numbers, anything really. I did read on this forum that when delivered some modifications were made to the early sets, were these sent back to the factory for this work? Thanks in advance Barry There used to be a few photos of the 1983 stock delivery on fotopic but sadly that site no longer exists. Here is one pic I found: www.metroland.org.uk/unusual/A_25_leaves_Amersham_with_tube_stock.jpgThe brakevans used would be similar to these ones: www.anorakheaven.com/photos/ev033.jpg I know when LT stock was delivered, sometimes REA vans were used instead of brake vans as shown here: www.anorakheaven.com/photos/rs068.jpgwww.metroland.org.uk/unusual/Autumn_1994_37048_Amersham.JPGand in this video: How do they get from Birmingham to Aylesbury? Thought the Great Central got ripped up? By the Chiltern Main Line. From Brum, they would go to Princes Risborough, and then head to Aylesbury and then onto the Met.
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Post by metrailway on Mar 21, 2012 20:46:30 GMT
That's a very valid point! At the end of the day it's simple market forces, supply and demand. But remember, Chiltern gives customers a choice and if they really get their act in order they will clean up. Except that's the problem - it's not just about market forces is it? And if, like me, you live in Chesham, then how does Chiltern give you a choice? Last time I looked, they didn't run to Chesham... I get your point, but many people who use Chesham will just drive to High Wycombe, Beaconsfield, Berkhamsted etc and use the services there. It probably will be quicker to use take a train from a station miles away than catch the Met. Berkhamsted for instance has between 4tph off peak to London taking either 31 or 38 mins. Chesham has 2tph both taking over an hour to reach Baker St, a huge difference. Mets from Amersham take just over 50 mins but at least they have the 40 min Chiltern service. Of course, instead of taking the train, others will drive to London not minding the extra cost. Have Chiltern got enough stock to serve Chesham? Down here we have a 158 rostered to do the Brockenhurst - Lymington shuttle. It arrives Monday morning off a placing run from Salisbury via Southampton and then goes home Fridays. In the meantime it stables at Bournemouth TMD. At weekends a 450 runs the service. The six-mile shuttle [similar to the Chesham branch] each way clearly does not use up that much fuel although the engines idle for some time at either terminus. Acceleration is not as good as the 450s and nowhere near that of the 3-CIGs. There was once a 06XX through service from Eastleigh and return at around 22XX that placed the electric unit on to the branch but no through services have run since. It is purely a shuttle service only. That means say two dedicated units MFO. If the Chesham branch goes over to DMMUs, presumably it will have to revert to a shuttle again or will there be enough extra trains to operate a through service? Will the local burghers complain of slower performance, noiser diesels, excessive idling at Chesham and possibly Chalfont? Chiltern should have enough stock for the Chesham shuttle. They recently acquired another Class 121. A Class 121 would be suitable to work the branch. I doubt Chiltern have enough stock to provide a regular service to/from London due to their future Oxford service.
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Post by metrailway on Mar 12, 2012 23:56:27 GMT
I took my son when he was about 6/7 years old to a Steam the Met Weekend, as we approached Amersham Station he saw an Underground sign and said "Dad that is wrong as these trains are not under the ground" ;D! XF You may be surprised how many 'adults' have pointed this out to me as well
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Post by metrailway on Mar 12, 2012 23:46:21 GMT
I don't think this has been brought up yet... I found this link on another forum and it is a request for WTTs using the Freedom of Information Act. It was successful as expected but surprisingly TfL have sent the WTTs as PDFs. WTTs for all the LUL lines are present.
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Post by metrailway on Dec 28, 2011 15:18:43 GMT
If a regular Watford - Chesham service was ever to run (after the Croxley link was finished), I would say the main flow of passengers would not be to/from Chesham but to/from Ricky instead. As Bengley has said above, the main benefit for Chesham passengers would be reliability, as it is less exposed to any problems occurring in the city.
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Post by metrailway on Dec 28, 2011 14:49:17 GMT
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Post by metrailway on Dec 1, 2011 19:45:40 GMT
The EWR consortium plan includes a station at Winslow. I believe the plan from the EWR is to run Marylebone - Milton Keynes Central services (via High Wycombe), in addition to Reading - Bedford/MK (via Oxford).
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Post by metrailway on Dec 1, 2011 18:34:19 GMT
I don't think anyone has brought this up: The Chancellor of the Exchequer announced in his Autumn Statement that the Govt. will provide funding for the re-opening of the Varsity line between Bicester and Bletchley. George Osborne claims that this will create 12,000 jobs in the area. I already know that planning is well advanced, and funding was the only issue. It is planned to open in 2017. Sadly Verney Junction won't re-open It is good news and I presume it includes Aylesbury as well...
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Post by metrailway on Sept 29, 2011 12:32:56 GMT
The original often saw District trains in France! Quite amusing when it goes wrong! Maybe the map is revealing services that we have failed to notice up until now. ;D Conspiracy theory's abound, R stock stored in the Channel Tunnel Along with the Strategic Steam Reserve ;D
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Post by metrailway on Sept 22, 2011 21:39:20 GMT
I trained on ESL118A&B at ricky in October 1973, along with John Hampden! JH was there as standby to push stalled DMUs up the bank to Chorleywood. ESL118 was last heard of on the Spa Valley. Going off topic now: I never knew that John Hampden was used to push failed DMUs. Were John Hampden/Sarah Siddons ever used to push the DMUs in the late 80s, when the 115s were notoriously unreliable?
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Post by metrailway on Sept 22, 2011 20:51:33 GMT
We're getting there... They mean to proper services? (and sandwiches?) No, BR (as it then was) was massively underfunded by a succession of Governments, and at the time it was a revolution for a train to reach 125mph even though it was possible with steam donkeys years previously. BR at the time were notorious for late running or non running for various reasons, but the introduction of those diesels and the guarantee of reaching 125mph at some point in the journey was hailed as a major success despite only emulating a feat from years previously. Hence the slogan "We're getting there" They had to reinvent themselves and make train travel sound and look like a viable option as opposed to roads which at the time probably were just as easy, quite probably quicker and cheaper - The slogan was then changed to "Let the train take the strain" Sadly, it's been underfunded hugely since then as well, sold off as a loss maker (As most of British industry was when Mrs Thatcher realised how much the tax payers were propping up the enormous wage bills of the union based industries) and as a result, knocking onto tube as well, it'll always be light years behind Europe and the major world Cities. Although Thatcher was pro-privatisation, she was dead set against the privatisation of British Rail. She has been quoted saying, "Railway privatisation will be the Waterloo of this government. Please never mention the railways to me again." She only privatised the parts of BR which had no true involvement in the day to day operation of the railways such as BREL and Sealink. She did reduce subsidies massively though, and I think by the time she left, BR was running with practially no subsidy, which resulted in steep fare increases. Her view of privatising the Royal Mail was the same, saying something like "I won't touch anything Royal"
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Post by metrailway on Sept 22, 2011 19:55:40 GMT
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Post by metrailway on Sept 22, 2011 19:01:49 GMT
According to a post on another forum, 21003 has had some of it's windows scratched
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Post by metrailway on Sept 22, 2011 12:03:45 GMT
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Post by metrailway on Sept 21, 2011 18:32:28 GMT
Unfortunately, these don't help the off-peak passengers of Ealing, Acton and Chiswick who are looking at the platform bifurcation board with a straight green line to Upminster - then watch as all trains through these stations between 10-4 all say "Tower Hill". How do they find an Upminster train? I suppose signs could be put up (like at Stratford DLR) advising that if trains aren't going further than, for example, Tower Hill, board one and change where necessary. Yeah this is probably the best solution. IIRC on the Met, the line diagrams at Wembley Park, Preston Road, and Northwick Park state something like "If no through train is indicated change at Harrow on the Hill" If lightboxes were still favoured, I would design one which would lit up stating: TOWER HILL CHANGE FOR UPMINSTER Just like the classic ones at Harrow on the Hill which state: AMERSHAM CHANGE FOR AYLESBURY
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Post by metrailway on Sept 21, 2011 18:23:53 GMT
Absolute classic from the days when commercials were better than the programmes themselves. Mind you, they still are, which goes to show what utter dross tv is these days. But the British Rail slogan 'We're Getting There' must be one of the worst in the history of advertisments!
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Post by metrailway on Sept 20, 2011 21:01:40 GMT
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Post by metrailway on Sept 19, 2011 23:19:53 GMT
Perhaps as things move further and further away from the negatives of the PPP legacy a more positive attitude will occur. However official preservation and the underground seem to have always had an extremely on/off relationship Hopefully this will be true. I think Metronet once proposed to sell off Sarah Siddons Luckily this didn't happen. IMO it is a shame that LTM only have the non-running Metropolitan Class A steam loco. I think that if LTM had an operational steam loco, the receipts it would bring would be significantly greater than electric tours, and thus, would subsidise the restoration of some electic stock. Even if Class A was able to run, I would think it would struggle on the gradients of the Met. The remaining Met Class F and S locos were scrapped in the 60s, but an LTM loco wouldn't have to be a 'pure' underground loco. It could actually be one of the LNER/BR locos which operated the LT services north of Rickmansworth for some 20+ years. There must at least be one which is has been saved but non operational somewhere. I didn't suggest Met No.1 or the Panniers as they are looked after well by their owners.
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Post by metrailway on Sept 19, 2011 16:58:22 GMT
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Post by metrailway on Sept 19, 2011 0:21:47 GMT
The restoration is being done in a way to allow it to run under it's own power when funds become available. The problem is that in the medium term, the change to 750V and ATO makes it difficult to operate them and would increase costs if you want them to run in the long term. Of course these modifications/costs apply to Sarah Siddons, the 1938 stock as well as all the rest. The same has happened on the Mainline, with the now mandatory TPWS and OTMR, preventing perfectly safe rolling stock from operating. LU, when compared to other metro systems around the world (New York, Berlin), haven't been that supportive of preservation and there might be a time in the not so distant future where LU say enough is enough and refuse any preserved stock due to the ATO, operational headaches etc. Maybe the future of preserved Underground stock is static display* which would be a very sad state of affairs. *You could create a MLV/preserve a battery loco, couple it to the stock in question, and run it on un-electrified heritage railways. However the running costs of this is probably massive for the preserved railways so won't happen and might look a bit odd on some rolling stock
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Post by metrailway on Sept 18, 2011 13:21:58 GMT
That may be asking a little too much! I'm pretty sure the Spa Valley Railway uses them as coaches on their services. It would be difficult, the Q38s alone havent run under their own power for... 21 years? (1990?) Its a shame though that vehicals which were once serviceable were allowed to just die. The Standards being the prime example. Its criminal that most seem unlikely to run again in the forseeable future, considering they arrived working, albeit on their last legs. Really looking forward to 150, hope it hits the spot!! LTM intended to restore the 4 cars of Q Stock to running condition in time for 150 but the recession came along affecting donations so it is now being restored to 'static Museum display plus’
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Post by metrailway on Sept 17, 2011 16:05:45 GMT
IIRC there some ancient car markers for the unelectrified siding (road 34?) at Amersham in dark blue and with numbers not in a Johnston style font
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Post by metrailway on Sept 17, 2011 15:49:55 GMT
Hopefully the T Stock will run as well, albeit pushed by a loco
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Post by metrailway on Sept 16, 2011 19:28:23 GMT
According to the most recent issue of Heritage Railway magazine, Met No 1 is currently being overhauled and is 'earmarked' to play a role in the celebrations. LTM and Bucks Railway Centre are funding this.
Being restored at Ffestiniog is Met Jubilee First Class carriage No.353 owned by LTM for the celebrations. LTM managed to secure lottery funding for the project.
It also states that it is understood that Met No 1 will haul a train of the Bluebell's four Ashbury coaches and No.353.
Interesting it states that 'in theory' the anniversary could see steam return to the tunnels.
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Post by metrailway on Sept 14, 2011 22:15:28 GMT
IIRC the max speed on the northern half of the Circle is 35mph so max speed of 40mph with the flag down is a good guess.
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Post by metrailway on Sept 13, 2011 21:24:14 GMT
I think the lettered zones mean that the relevent TOC sets the fares not TfL. I don't think W and G zones are used in public literature. Yes, they are different, a peak Z W to Z1 journey is £7.70 while a peak Z G to Z1 journey is £6.90.
This is why I don't understand why FCC would allow those stations in Zone 9. They can set their own fares if they got their own zones, which is what I think will happen in the end.
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Post by metrailway on Sept 13, 2011 20:55:59 GMT
About BSK 35011: When I passed Ruislip depot on the Central line on saturday (10/09) that coach in bad condition was out in the yard, so it had obviously been moved around. That's a shame. There is clearly enough demand for an extra coach to be put on the end of the 'Heritage Train'.
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Post by metrailway on Sept 13, 2011 20:52:11 GMT
Isn't Watford Junction in 'Zone W', like Grays is in 'Zone G'? The reason why Watford Junction is not part of the numbered zones is because it would mean a loss of revenue for London Midland.
I don't understand why FCC want to extend Zone 9. Surely it would mean a massive loss of revenue? For example, the current Anytime Day Return to London from WGC is £14.50 but two peak return journeys with Oyster is only £12.00. Or am I missing something?
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Post by metrailway on Sept 13, 2011 12:12:40 GMT
According to BBC London First Capital Connect are in talks to extend the Oyster scheme all the way to St Albans, Welwyn Garden City and Hertford North. According to the BBC London correspondent, this would mean the expansion of Zone 9.
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Post by metrailway on Sept 12, 2011 23:44:48 GMT
You see, this is where the whingers in this thread fall down I'm afraid. Where this figure of an additional 7 minutes has come from I don't actually know. The average increase from, say Amersham to Baker Street is between 3 and 6 minutes. It is not a case of an extra minute per stop. Only three minutes for all those stations I'll stop whinging for now... ;D Chiltern's future is pretty much up to them. Their peak service already omits many of our stations at the north end of the line, and getting them to stop additionally during times of trouble is not always easy. If they end up non-stopping everwhere except Amersham, then the only people they will affect is the Met Line customers who use them as an alternative. Well most of their fast services which non-stop Met stations are fully packed and are made up of 6 cars so cannot stop at these stations. Chiltern lose a lot of potential revenue from Aylesbury as many commuters prefer the faster, more frequent services from Tring over the slower services via the Met. So I doubt they want to stop more than 2tph required at Met stations by their franchise agreement. Going back to timings, I'm looking at the Summer 1961 edition of the 'UndergrounD Guide'. On Sundays there was a half-hourly fast service between Amersham and Baker Street (all stations to Moor Park, then Harrow and Finchley Road). A 45 minute journey time Amersham to Baker Street; 47 minutes return. (On weekdays the fast trains were to / from Aylesbury, with what look like loco changes at Rickmansworth for the Met. trains, as they got 4 minutes at that station. Presumably, on Sundays, electric trains operated through to Amersham, as there was an Amersham - Aylesbury shuttle). The service also had to cope with trains running non-stop between Rayners Lane and Finchley Road in the am peak on M-F and in the reverse direction during the pm peak. Presumably all of this was before the full combined fleet of A stock had been delivered - ? I'm wondering whether even faster Amersham line timings might be found a few years later - ? With slick working, Amersham fasts at 42 or 43 minutes - ? According to this: Fast Amersham - Baker St with the same stopping patterns as now took 41 minutes according to the peak 1977 timetable. The fastest all stations Amersham - Baker St service took 50 minutes.
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