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Post by redsetter on May 13, 2011 17:08:59 GMT
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metman
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Post by metman on May 13, 2011 17:24:05 GMT
Ohh!! Can anyone shed any light on this?
I must say, does the Moor Park-Preston Road frequency need to be improved off peak?
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on May 13, 2011 17:26:39 GMT
Fast Amershams; slow Cheshams .... sounds very odd ....
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Post by causton on May 13, 2011 18:19:06 GMT
"TUBE users are furious" ...bet they aren't :roll: I'm a tube user and I'm not. If I used Chesham regularly I wouldn't be either! Bit odd, as rhubarb^2 said, but not something to get angry about... They're lucky to get any tube service  |
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Post by andypurk on May 13, 2011 18:49:03 GMT
Fast Amershams; slow Cheshams .... sounds very odd .... It's what they have been doing during the engineering work south of Harrow recently. Six Uxbridge trains per hour, Four Watford trains per hour, Two Chesham trains per hour, via the slow lines Two Amersham trains per hour, via the fast lines plus the Chiltern service. Maybe the question should be whether the off-peak Chesham journey would be quicker changing to a Fast Amersham service from the Chesham train as Chesham punters had to do in the past. |
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Post by Deleted on May 13, 2011 19:14:29 GMT
Just another effort to drive people from the Chesham services and watch the passenger numbers dwindle until it's 'not economical running the service anymore'
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Post by Deleted on May 13, 2011 19:30:05 GMT
I disagree; they are still getting a better service than they did prior to 12th Dec 2010... for the lazy people who can't be bothered to change trains, or find the Amershams are too busy. Not to mention it would help out further down the line.. and it's only 7 mins extra. Could mean a change less for some journeys as well!
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Post by andypurk on May 13, 2011 19:32:56 GMT
Just another effort to drive people from the Chesham services and watch the passenger numbers dwindle until it's 'not economical running the service anymore' Amazingly, most off peak trains are already timetabled for 53-54 minutes (not the 50 mins claimed in the article). Peak trains are a couple of minutes faster, but these are not going to be affected by the change. Many off-peak punters would probably prefer a stopping through train to the old arrangement where they had to change at Chalfont. Also, many places on the National Rail network, a similar distance from Central London, don't get a regular fast service either, but they don't seem to be in danger of being shut down. |
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Post by Deleted on May 13, 2011 20:04:26 GMT
Fast Amershams; slow Cheshams .... sounds very odd .... It's what they have been doing during the engineering work south of Harrow recently. Six Uxbridge trains per hour, Four Watford trains per hour, Two Chesham trains per hour, via the slow lines Two Amersham trains per hour, via the fast lines plus the Chiltern service. Maybe the question should be whether the off-peak Chesham journey would be quicker changing to a Fast Amersham service from the Chesham train as Chesham punters had to do in the past. What about chiltern services stopping at moor park, so there is still a 4 an hour between harrow-moor-ricky on the fast. |
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Post by citysig on May 13, 2011 20:58:30 GMT
I hinted at all this a while back (I may have given half a clue but cannot recall - I'll leave that for others with more time.)
As things stand, from December the basic off-peak Met service will be:
Amersham/Chesham-Aldgate running all stations every 15/30 minutes
Watford-Baker Street running all stations every 15 minutes
Uxbridge-Baker Street or Aldgate (alternate trains) running all stations every 6-10 minutes
The fast lines will be used mainly by Chiltern. Peak hours will see a handful of fast services to/from Amersham.
It is ironic that one set of user groups has picked up on this, given that an entirely different pair of user groups was the influence to run the service in this way - obviously with more influence (however that influence is found/used). The new service pattern is tailored towards these 2 groups. A case of not being able to please all of the people all of the time - but then Chesham got it's wishes fulfilled a few months back...
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Post by causton on May 13, 2011 22:38:06 GMT
...No fast or semi-fast services... at all in the off-peak?
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Post by Deleted on May 14, 2011 0:54:59 GMT
Well it's not as if the current fasts really gain anything north of Harrow, they've been run on the locals to no ill effect.
That said the decision to change the service south of Harrow is intriguing - these are the circumstances where you do pick up time versus a local train, a change of policy perhaps?
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Post by Deleted on May 14, 2011 6:21:16 GMT
Admittedly I like the idea of ex-Cheshams going to Aldgate all day and I wouldn't mind the slow service if this is the case.
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Post by peterc on May 14, 2011 7:41:43 GMT
Does that mean 2tph to each of Amersham and Chesham or 4tph from Amersham plus 2tph from Chesham?
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Post by Deleted on May 14, 2011 8:04:06 GMT
The Chesham branch is never going to work well with the present track layout and through service. As soon as there is a service interruption and the train is running late there are problems as has been well covered on this Forum in the past.
Is the S stock fitted with selective door opening as this could be a possible answer? When there are problems run a train into the bay at Chalfont and Latimer and lock our the rear 4 coach doors - surely one of the advantages of a full width link between the coaches?
If things stay as they are they are IMO the Chesham Branch will be viewed as a liability and the axe will be sharpened - We have all heard the denials of the occurring - been there done that in the past.
Xerces Fobe
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Post by Deleted on May 14, 2011 8:33:33 GMT
Xerces; the S stock SDO can only cut out the front or rear four door sets.
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metman
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Post by metman on May 14, 2011 8:53:56 GMT
I hinted at all this a while back (I may have given half a clue but cannot recall - I'll leave that for others with more time.) As things stand, from December the basic off-peak Met service will be: Amersham/Chesham-Aldgate running all stations every 15/30 minutes Watford-Baker Street running all stations every 15 minutes Uxbridge-Baker Street or Aldgate (alternate trains) running all stations every 6-10 minutes The fast lines will be used mainly by Chiltern. Peak hours will see a handful of fast services to/from Amersham. It is ironic that one set of user groups has picked up on this, given that an entirely different pair of user groups was the influence to run the service in this way - obviously with more influence (however that influence is found/used). The new service pattern is tailored towards these 2 groups. A case of not being able to please all of the people all of the time - but then Chesham got it's wishes fulfilled a few months back... That is insane! 1) Why run the Amersham service through to Aldgate, that is more scope for delays as the route is longer! 2) Watford and Croxley have a poorer service 3) More strain of Watford South Junction points 4) Totally stupid, unrealiable arrangement of Uxbridge trains running alternatively to City/Baker Street 5) Don't see how this improves reliability at all!! Its like going back to the pre 2003 days!!  |
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Post by graeme186 on May 14, 2011 9:54:00 GMT
As things stand, from December the basic off-peak Met service will be: Amersham/Chesham-Aldgate running all stations every 15/30 minutes Watford-Baker Street running all stations every 15 minutes Uxbridge-Baker Street or Aldgate (alternate trains) running all stations every 6-10 minutes Thank you very much indeed MetControl for the insight to the off-peak Met timetable from Dec 2011. Are you able to confirm the following: - how many trains will run on the Uxbridge Branch per hour? Your suggestion of 6-10 min service would suggest an increase from the present 6tph? - presumably the 15min reference to Amersham includes Chiltern Railways? On the assumption this is the case, will the 2tph Met service to/from Amersham run fast or will it too run over the local lines? To achieve an increase in service between Northwood and North Harrow which the LUL spokesperson is suggesting, it too will need to run over the local lines calling all stations? - will it be the 2tph from Amersham or Chesham that are extended to run to/from Aldgate? Thanks MetControl if you're able to advise. |
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Post by Deleted on May 14, 2011 10:02:48 GMT
presumably the 15min reference to Amersham includes Chiltern Railways? On the assumption this is the case, will the 2tph Met service to/from Amersham run fast or will it too run over the local lines? I believe the 15/30 was in reference to the fact that Amersham and Chesham will both have a train to Baker Street every 30 minutes and this will give a combined frequency from Chalfont and Latimer of a train every 15 minutes. Basically all Met trains will call at all stations off peak. This has the effect of making things much simpler as if you look at a map and see that trains to Amersham pass through Northwood, you no longer have to risk the fact that the train you get may not stop there unless you travel at peak times. The only station that really loses out in all this is Moor Park as there will no longer be fast services to London from this station off peak. |
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metman
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Post by metman on May 14, 2011 10:07:19 GMT
Chiltern better order some more class 172s!
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Post by Deleted on May 14, 2011 10:12:11 GMT
Now we know that the Met will be resignalled with CBTC I'm not sure it would be possible for Chiltern to share the same tracks. In theory the fast lines from Harrow could be transferred to Network Rail with LU just running the Uxbridge and Watford branches. There would still be the issue of Chesham though, as it would be disconnected from the LU network I would expect it would also go over to Network Rail so Chiltern could run a shuttle.
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Post by Harsig on May 14, 2011 10:54:33 GMT
4) Totally stupid, unrealiable arrangement of Uxbridge trains running alternatively to City/Baker Street I disagree entirely. In my view, as a regular user of the Uxbridge Branch, this is by far the best feature of the proposed new service pattern as it will finally provide the off-peak Uxbridge service with some immunity to problems in the city, something the other branches of the Met have enjoyed for many years and the Uxbridge Branch has badly missed since the withdrawal of the old service pattern which you seem to have disliked. |
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Post by Ben on May 14, 2011 13:35:26 GMT
It makes sense to run the Amershams/Cheshams to the city as thats the one thing TfLs got with its service against Chilterns. However, no use of the fast lines?!
How much to get a regular semi-fast Uxbridge? ;D
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Post by ruislip on May 14, 2011 17:33:53 GMT
Uxbridge-Baker Street or Aldgate (alternate trains) running all stations every 6-10 minutes 1) I'm guessing that this means 4tph to Aldgate and 4tph to Baker St. 2) Will this have any effect on the current 3 Piccadillies per hour off-peak that run through to Uxbridge? |
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Post by Deleted on May 14, 2011 18:56:23 GMT
Chiltern better order some more class 172s! Better idea - reinstate some more Class 121's ;D Xerces Fobe |
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Post by cooperman on May 14, 2011 20:12:37 GMT
Well it's not as if the current fasts really gain anything north of Harrow, they've been run on the locals to no ill effect. I'm afraid your Journey time from Chesham , increases by 5 - 10 mins using the slow track. It happened to me last week. I can't see how they came to the conclusion of an increase of 7 mins stopping at every station . Unfortunately being a Minority Commuter ( 11 hour Shift worker ) i have lost out on the present Chesham timetable. All its done for me is to shift my half an hour waiting time between trains by 10 mins. As i said I'm in the Minority, but by making the off peak Chesham service an all station service just adds to the misery. Oh well.. that's life.....  |
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Post by andypurk on May 14, 2011 20:59:31 GMT
Well it's not as if the current fasts really gain anything north of Harrow, they've been run on the locals to no ill effect. I'm afraid your Journey time from Chesham , increases by 5 - 10 mins using the slow track. It happened to me last week. I can't see how they came to the conclusion of an increase of 7 mins stopping at every station . The normal off-peak time Harrow-on-the-Hill - Chesham is 31 mins via the fast lines. During the current engineering works, this time is 37 mins, via the slow lines, calling all stations. So there is a difference of 6 mins between the fast and the slow north of Harrow. When the Chesham train is sent non-stop along the slow lines, you won't get much time advantage over calling at all stations, as you will soon catch the train in front up. Note for the overall times to/from Baker Street there is also a 3 min difference between fast and slow trains, but I'm not sure how much pathing time will be saved by sending all trains over the slow lines. |
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Post by ruislip on May 14, 2011 21:03:22 GMT
I disagree entirely. In my view, as a regular user of the Uxbridge Branch, this is by far the best feature of the proposed new service pattern as it will finally provide the off-peak Uxbridge service with some immunity to problems in the city, something the other branches of the Met have enjoyed for many years . Moorgate anyone? |
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Post by andypurk on May 14, 2011 21:05:20 GMT
I hinted at all this a while back (I may have given half a clue but cannot recall - I'll leave that for others with more time.) As things stand, from December the basic off-peak Met service will be: Amersham/Chesham-Aldgate running all stations every 15/30 minutes Watford-Baker Street running all stations every 15 minutes Uxbridge-Baker Street or Aldgate (alternate trains) running all stations every 6-10 minutes The fast lines will be used mainly by Chiltern. Peak hours will see a handful of fast services to/from Amersham. It is ironic that one set of user groups has picked up on this, given that an entirely different pair of user groups was the influence to run the service in this way - obviously with more influence (however that influence is found/used). The new service pattern is tailored towards these 2 groups. A case of not being able to please all of the people all of the time - but then Chesham got it's wishes fulfilled a few months back... That is insane! 1) Why run the Amersham service through to Aldgate, that is more scope for delays as the route is longer! 2) Watford and Croxley have a poorer service Both are probably over served anyway. I've never been on an off-peak train north of Moor Park with more than a couple of people per car. But less strain for Harrow North Junction points. |
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Post by causton on May 14, 2011 22:29:24 GMT
I hinted at all this a while back (I may have given half a clue but cannot recall - I'll leave that for others with more time.) Don't think so (edit: if you meant 'all this' meaning making them all stations services), you however did mention: "The plan is that everything will stop at Wembley, all day, both northbound and southbound ;D " and... "it does illustrate that those Baker Street reversers obviously mean a lot more to the Met than a 5 minute city service would provide. That is quite interesting given what I know about December's timetable " Can't see any more at the moment ;D |
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