kabsonline
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Post by kabsonline on Feb 6, 2012 20:56:40 GMT
Hello all So it's been a couple of months now that the new timetable has been in operation. Are people growing to it? Now using the Met on quite a regular basis I don't really mind it. There are however to little problems I find with it: 1) The DVAs on the S Stock get really annoying as you stop at every station, especially when travelling between Chesham and Baker Street. 2) I find that when you reach Harrow-on-the-Hill you can get stuck behind another train that has come from Uxbridge (when travelling from Chesham, Amersham or Watford) causing your train to be very slow and to keep braking. However I do love train journeys, especially on the Met, so the extra time is not really an issue. I also think that the extra time is not an issue as people on the Central have to travel all stations from Epping, which is also quite a distance. So that's my opinion. What does everyone else think?  |
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Post by mcmaddog on Feb 6, 2012 21:03:02 GMT
I don't get why Uxbridge and Watford SB arrive together at HOTH and passengers have to guess which will go first. Previously they'd leave together, one slow, one fast. The old way seemed to make much better use of track space
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kabsonline
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Post by kabsonline on Feb 6, 2012 21:34:39 GMT
I don't get why Uxbridge and Watford SB arrive together at HOTH and passengers have to guess which will go first. Previously they'd leave together, one slow, one fast. The old way seemed to make much better use of track space That is the issue I mean. Then the train behind has to constantly break and wait around for the train in front to pass. Happens with the Amersham/Chesham train as well sometimes. |
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metman
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Post by metman on Feb 6, 2012 22:09:12 GMT
The problem with the timetable is that although there is plenty of stand time now there is plenty of bunching and trains running around empty!
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Feb 7, 2012 0:36:17 GMT
I don't get why Uxbridge and Watford SB arrive together at HOTH and passengers have to guess which will go first. Previously they'd leave together, one slow, one fast. The old way seemed to make much better use of track space That is the issue I mean. Then the train behind has to constantly break and wait around for the train in front to pass. Happens with the Amersham/Chesham train as well sometimes. Don't forget the track space has been deliberately reduced (outside selected peak services) by taking the fast lines out of service, as has already been discussed at length on this forum. This is part of their "service recovery" plan, the new LU management buzzword, cynically designed solely to save their blushes in the event of service failures during the Olympics caused by them allowing the signalling system to deteriorate so lamentably. Inevitably, this is all at the expense of the service to the core LU customers as you are now experiencing. |
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Feb 7, 2012 7:30:08 GMT
caused by them allowing the signalling system to deteriorate so lamentably. Inevitably, this is all at the expense of the service to the core LU customers as you are now experiencing. Dopn't forget that Metronet initially riased thew order for the upgrade of the signalling of the SSL. When dissolved, Metronet were heavily criticised by The National Audit Office for lack of corporate governance and cost control. Therefore LU, now back in control of SSL had no choice but to re-tender the SSL signalling contract. So the 'them' you've referred to is far wider than just LU (who have clearly also had a part to play).  |
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Post by Deleted on Feb 7, 2012 8:50:51 GMT
caused by them allowing the signalling system to deteriorate so lamentably. Inevitably, this is all at the expense of the service to the core LU customers as you are now experiencing. Dopn't forget that Metronet initially riased thew order for the upgrade of the signalling of the SSL. When dissolved, Metronet were heavily criticised by The National Audit Office for lack of corporate governance and cost control. Therefore LU, now back in control of SSL had no choice but to re-tender the SSL signalling contract. So the 'them' you've referred to is far wider than just LU (who have clearly also had a part to play). Of course, you are absolutely correct, but the time has come to differentiate between reasons and excuses. The PPP debacle clearly wasted five years but the facts remain, Metronet collapsed nearly five years ago and they have known about the Olympics nearly seven years, plenty of time to deal with the critical areas and prepare for this summer. The current system is so old and decrepit that the Met desperately needs reliability now, even if it's basic and simple, but what have the management gone for? An all singing and dancing elegant system in six years time, which after the inevitable delays won't be ready until 2020, by which time there won't be a system to control because its all fallen apart and the passengers have gone elsewhere. I've said it before and I'll say it again, head in the sand idiocy. |
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Post by Deleted on Feb 7, 2012 9:28:31 GMT
The new timetable is not good for me. I live in Chesham and my office is about a 15 minute walk from Farringdon (I start work at 9.30). I used to get the 07.51 which was supposed to arrive at Farringdon at about 9am which it usually did, give or take 10 minutes - this was fine. When the new timetable started I opted for the 08.03, scheduled arrival 09.09. However, as I've already stated in the heating thread the train rarely arrives at its allotted time (at best it's punctual about once a week) and usually runs about 10 minutes late. This meant I was getting into work 5 minutes late which is no good. So the upshot is I now have to get the 07.31 to ensure I am not late for work. The return journey used to leave Farringdon at 17.51, however that has been brought forward to 17.47 meaning I have a mad dash to the tube every evening to get home. If I am late leaving work by even a couple of minutes I have to wait for the 18.21.
So, in short I have lost 20 minutes in the morning and if I don't leave work on time I lose 35 minutes in the evening. Thanks TfL.
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Post by knap on Feb 7, 2012 12:48:33 GMT
Like martyboy the new timetable is not as good for me traveling from Amersham. My previous fast train has been put back. There is a new semi fast which should get me to Finchley Road for me to catch a Jubilee train back to West Hampstead where I connect to the north London Line. However, this new semi fast train I think has only been on time 3 times since the start of the time table. This means I mis my connections, which adds to my journey and makes me late. If the service was able to run to its timetable, I could live with it, but 5 minutes late has a knock on effect to the rest of my journey.
Traveling off peak on a Sunday is just so frustratingly slow!
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Post by Deleted on Feb 8, 2012 17:48:34 GMT
I live in Chesham and think it's dreadful. The all stations off peak service is outrageously tedious. How LUL can think it's acceptable to take a slow service and make it even slower is beyond me. My view is that they see Amersham/Chesham as beyond the GLA area so keep the London Mayor happy at the expense of our journeys.
I'll be writing to the Secretary of State (copied to Boris and Ken) about LU's accountability for services outside London. This issue has come up as both Ken and Boris seem intent on taking over London mainline rail services - given LU's behaviour regarding Amersham/Chesham, I can't imagine why anybody would want TfL aywhere near their rail service.
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Post by cooperman on Feb 9, 2012 4:00:39 GMT
I did 7 straight 12 hour night shifts last week. So this is what happened.
5 of my S/B journeys started at 1755 from Chesham stopped outside Harrow and Wembley Stations awaiting a Platform to become available . Then we had the Harrow Shuffle as we call it up this end. This is quite funny really, its nice to see this old chess nut has reared it ugly head again. Your S/B train gets canceled at Harrow , you swap platforms and get on an all stations to Aldgate. The semi fast Chesham train gets reinstated and passes you at Preston Rd , superb.
Just one of my N/B journeys up to Chesham in the morning was on time and that was a Sunday with just me and the Driver. So to recap like others , moving trains forward means i miss my connection , back to waiting on platforms again i suppose.
Of course there is a one good thing about this new Timetable , i got 4 Charter refunds last month. ;D
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Post by metrider on Feb 9, 2012 18:26:15 GMT
....The semi fast Chesham train gets reinstated and passes you at Preston Rd , superb..... Was it empty? If they terminate at Harrow, they are very likely to run it empty to Neasden depot. |
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kabsonline
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Post by kabsonline on Feb 9, 2012 18:32:26 GMT
I saw a train the other day (A Stock) going south passing through Wembley Park empty which had Harrow as its destination. My train ran alongside it and it went into Neasdon depot.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Feb 9, 2012 18:50:16 GMT
I saw a train the other day (A Stock) going south passing through Wembley Park empty which had Harrow as its destination. My train ran alongside it and it went into Neasdon depot. Its one of the Peak stablers that stable at Neasden, *It terminates at Harrow OTH Pfm 4 *It then heads north of the station to the Reversiding Siding to reverse *It then returns to Neasden via the Fast Lines as Empty (Ety) |
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Post by cooperman on Feb 9, 2012 20:37:30 GMT
....The semi fast Chesham train gets reinstated and passes you at Preston Rd , superb..... Was it empty? If they terminate at Harrow, they are very likely to run it empty to Neasden depot. Hi No, as i was leaving HOTH i looked back and it had passengers on it . The Information board on the platform changed to " Not stopping at Northwick P , Preston Road , Wembley Park ". The strange thing was this S Stock i was traveling down from Chesham which i thought was Cancelled , displayed All Stations to Aldgate. My guess is the driver hadn't turned up in time or they suddenly realised they had two All stations trains at HOTH at the same time .This does happen sometimes and they get cancelled. Just unlucky.  |
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Post by citysig on Feb 9, 2012 23:29:02 GMT
They don't get cancelled. When 2 all-stations trains turn up together and 1 is running slightly late, 1 is often diverted fast from Harrow to Finchley Road - hence the rather revealing description that the train would not stop at certain stations.
As for morning delays, this is (at present, but soon to be solved) due to operational problems within Neasden depot related to the Jubilee Line.
As for simultaneous arrivals at Harrow southbound. Trains from the Watford/Uxbridge branches are typically timetabled 5 minutes apart except during the peak, when one train will be a fast service. When arriving together it is either a) The Peak, b) One train is early c) One train is late. The same set of options is true for other trains/times of day.
The timetable may not be to everyone's liking, but it does not have trains running on the same path at the same time.
Bunching is also due to early or late running. I'm afraid that the large majority of this which I have observed post 1300hrs is due to early running.
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Post by citysig on Feb 9, 2012 23:38:04 GMT
Don't forget the track space has been deliberately reduced (outside selected peak services) by taking the fast lines out of service, as has already been discussed at length on this forum. This is part of their "service recovery" plan, the new LU management buzzword, cynically designed solely to save their blushes in the event of service failures during the Olympics caused by them allowing the signalling system to deteriorate so lamentably. Inevitably, this is all at the expense of the service to the core LU customers as you are now experiencing. The fast lines have not been taken out of service - Chiltern and various test trains still use them, as well as late running trains. And of course, they are still used just as they were during peak hours. Using the fast lines as service recovery is a sensible move which utilises a lesser-used and thus less-crowded line to recover time. The fast lines have always been lesser-used. The use of them is a part of our recovery technique and always has been, but is NOT the reason the timetable was introduced. In the words of all good BBC links, "Other recovery techniques are available." The timetable is also NOT Olympics-linked. As far as I'm aware, there are no events taking place north of Harrow. We get people home everyday, and will also get them home during the Olympics. I have draft copies of the Olympics timetables based on WTT329 and WTT331 and in terms of shifting Met-Line customers home, there are minor differences. The signalling system is maintained on all roads in the same way as it was this time last year. Failures are an unfortunate occurance. The new signalling will be available in a few years, but may suffer many initial teething problems which will be slated here. We are a business, and much as the current timetable does not keep everyone happy, it is not our intention to drive people away. Therefore, none of the events that occur are intended to be at the expense of our customers. |
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Post by cooperman on Feb 10, 2012 9:38:02 GMT
They don't get cancelled. When 2 all-stations trains turn up together and 1 is running slightly late, 1 is often diverted fast from Harrow to Finchley Road - hence the rather revealing description that the train would not stop at certain stations. . Yes i agree , but they don't tell you that. It was supposed to be a Semi fast 1755 Chesham to Aldgate as per WTT anyway. If your told that the train on the other platform is leaving first which is also an All Stations and that the train you where on was billed as a All Stations instead of a Semi Fast as it should have been, you would change trains no. |
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DWS
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Post by DWS on Feb 10, 2012 10:03:02 GMT
As for morning delays, this is (at present, but soon to be solved) due to operational problems within Neasden depot related to the Jubilee Line. How is this going to be solved ? |
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Post by cooperman on Feb 10, 2012 10:05:06 GMT
Don't forget the track space has been deliberately reduced (outside selected peak services) by taking the fast lines out of service, as has already been discussed at length on this forum. This is part of their "service recovery" plan, the new LU management buzzword, cynically designed solely to save their blushes in the event of service failures during the Olympics caused by them allowing the signalling system to deteriorate so lamentably. Inevitably, this is all at the expense of the service to the core LU customers as you are now experiencing. The fast lines have not been taken out of service - Chiltern and various test trains still use them, as well as late running trains. And of course, they are still used just as they were during peak hours. Using the fast lines as service recovery is a sensible move which utilises a lesser-used and thus less-crowded line to recover time. The fast lines have always been lesser-used. The use of them is a part of our recovery technique and always has been, but is NOT the reason the timetable was introduced. In the words of all good BBC links, "Other recovery techniques are available." The timetable is also NOT Olympics-linked. As far as I'm aware, there are no events taking place north of Harrow. We get people home everyday, and will also get them home during the Olympics. I have draft copies of the Olympics timetables based on WTT329 and WTT331 and in terms of shifting Met-Line customers home, there are minor differences. The signalling system is maintained on all roads in the same way as it was this time last year. Failures are an unfortunate occurance. The new signalling will be available in a few years, but may suffer many initial teething problems which will be slated here. We are a business, and much as the current timetable does not keep everyone happy, it is not our intention to drive people away. Therefore, none of the events that occur are intended to be at the expense of our customers. The service recovery is much welcomed, and appreciated. It would be nice to be told though. A prime example was this morning. No Amersham and Chesham NB trains advertised at Baker St at 0735 . So i took the advice and took the first available Train an UXB All Stations . Got to Wembley Park and there where lots of people on the other Platform which was advertising a Semi Fast Amersham service. It duly came and .........yes you guessed , it didn't stop it was a Fast. Left quite a few unhappy passengers and two very embarrassed Station staff. Even the driver looked suprised as he flew past. Not the end of the of the World but.  Correct, this timetable won't please everyone i know that, but its upsetting quite a lot to the extent that people are driving to other stations . I know its had to believe but there you go . Carbon Footprint eat your Heart out. Cheers |
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Post by Deleted on Feb 10, 2012 13:40:51 GMT
....We are a business, and much as the current timetable does not keep everyone happy, it is not our intention to drive people away. Therefore, none of the events that occur are intended to be at the expense of our customers. That is true and I would hope most people realise that. However, there has to be a balance with what is reasonable for passengers who live further out, especially at Amersham and Chesham where the distance to London is greater as well as looking at sheer volume of station use. This was stated at the Chesham meeting in January and a question asked about what qualitative research had been undertaken to back up the quantitative stats analysis; no business (or manager) that wants to survive would dream of making a major change without undertaking qualitative (i.e. actually asking people) analysis. The LU reps were unable to tell us what had been done and it seemed pretty clear that, in fact, there had been none. It looks very much as if this is someone's personal baby or a dictat from above. Who knows, considering the lack of transparency? As it is, the off peak service for Amersham/Chesham branch users is now frustratingly slow and borderline unusable. I have, on several occasions, decided against going into London because I cannot face the tedious and boring trundle into London on an all stations service. An 8.40am doctors appointment earlier this week meant that I was unable to get to work until 10.45 - no delays, no problems; it just takes that long. I don't see this as reasonable, sorry. |
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Post by Deleted on Feb 10, 2012 14:14:34 GMT
Although they say Chesham is the least used station on the met line in my experience it's still pretty busy - the 07.33 and 08.01 trains in the morning are always nearly full when they leave. It must be remembered that although the line to Chesham is a single track there are 2 platforms, albeit one has fallen into disuse. If LU could bring this back into use then they could run 2 trains down the line in quick succession (a couple of minutes apart) and then back again. One would have to be a carriage shorter as the disused platform is not quite as long but I don't see why this train couldn't act as a fast shuttle - travelling between Chesham and HOTH (but missing out the Northwoods and Pinner). This would give us Cheshamers a vital extra service which could also be used by anyone living at Moor Park, Ricky, Shurelywould and Chalfont. It's not like they're not spending a lot of money on other stations at the moment is it...?
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metman
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Post by metman on Feb 10, 2012 14:36:38 GMT
Are you should the old bay platform is 7 cars long? From my last visit it only appeared as it is could hold (and it used to) 4 cars of A stock. An S7 isn't going to fit in it! I would agree that it would be nice to have the extra platform I really can't see management spending the money on it.
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mrfs42
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Post by mrfs42 on Feb 10, 2012 14:37:04 GMT
<snip> It must be remembered that although the line to Chesham is a single track there are 2 platforms, albeit one has fallen into disuse. If LU could bring this back into use then they could run 2 trains down the line in quick succession (a couple of minutes apart) and then back again. Do you have *any* idea of the cost of that suggestion? |
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Post by Deleted on Feb 10, 2012 15:21:45 GMT
Yes, of course but it would be a fraction of the amount spent on stations like King's Cross and Farringdon. It's only putting in a little more track and tidying up a platform.
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metman
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Post by metman on Feb 10, 2012 15:27:10 GMT
The problem is that Kings Cross and Farringdon are part of major projects like Thameslink 2000 and will improve the journeys of billions of people. The work at Chesham will not.
The track cost won't be so bad, but the signalling changes will be costly. The Chesham branch currently acts as a single track siding. Once an extra junction is provided the costs for new signalling shoot up. This is why I don't believe it would happen.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 10, 2012 15:42:16 GMT
So does anyone know how it all operated before, when Chesham had more than 1 platform?
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metman
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Post by metman on Feb 10, 2012 15:49:22 GMT
Initially it was done by electric token and later by track circuits. All now removed. There used to be an additional run round track in the obviously large space adjcent to platform 1. The tracks ran beyond and into the car park.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 10, 2012 15:57:34 GMT
Such a shame they can't do something about it. The single train capacity is a real limit to the service. Surely the population of Chesham has grown since it was all downsized?
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metman
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Post by metman on Feb 10, 2012 16:12:27 GMT
I would have thought so yes. Having said that, the people of Chesham paid the Met Rly to build the station in the Town centre, perhaps this is the only why this particular improvement will be realised.
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