|
Post by aslefshrugged on Jul 11, 2022 6:50:09 GMT
I'll guess that part of the story here is that to reduce costs TfL want brand new trains with a format and door spacing that is compatible with the platform screen doors. Paris will be getting new trains for its metro line that from when it opened was fully driverless / unstaffed trains with all stations having platform screen doors. I *think* this is line 13. For their new trains they also intend to replace the platform screen doors! I am not sure of the full extent of the works required, only that the word 'replace' is being used. Line 14 is the only Metro line to be built driverless, opened 1998. It currently has three different stocks, 21 6-car MP89s, 11 6-car MP05s and a single 8-car MP14s, all of which obviously have identical door spacing. In 2012 it was announced that the MP89s and MP05s would be replaced by MP14s with the old stock cascaded to other lines although some will require a drivers cab Line 1 was converted to driverless in 2011, has MP05s Line 4 is currently being converted to driverless, has driver operated MP89s with the first driverless trains entering service this year All three lines use rubber tyres Two other lines use rubber tyres, Line 6 has MP89s and MP73s, Line 11 has ancient MP59s which will be replaced at some point in the future with MP14s Mod edit [Antharro]: Quote partially removed. Please be selective about the part of a post you wish to quote rather than the whole post verbatim, particularly if you are replying to the previous post in the thread.
|
|
|
Post by aslefshrugged on Jul 10, 2022 8:58:09 GMT
Fifty or more years ago, at least until the advent of the ATO trial, the Woodfords generally but not always departed from the outer rail platform. Just to clarify trains leaving Hainault towards Grange Hill are "Inner Rail" and trains leaving Hainault towards Fairlop are "Outer Rail" regardless of which platform they leave from
|
|
|
Post by aslefshrugged on Jul 10, 2022 5:12:54 GMT
In the days of the 60TS shuttle they always departed from Plat 2. Yes. I remember that. Nowadays however they tend to depart from platform 1. What would be 'very exciting' would be them departing from platform 3. I suspect though the the route (which would be via Hainault depot) would entail travelling over tracks that are not certified as suitable for trains carrying fare paying passengers. Ah well. To add to the confusion there is at least one train that leaves Platform 1 on the Outer Rail towards Fairlop but I can't be bothered trawling through WTT70 to find it. In my 19 years on the Central Line WTT70 is by far the worst timetable I have had to work with, clearly written by people who have never worked on the operational side of the business.
Departing from platform 3 would require going past three shunt signals (HAI 6757 at Platform 3, HAI 6763 before the wash, GRH 9261 from the wash road to Grange Hill Platform 1), we would require authorisation for each signal to carry passengers over them.
|
|
|
Post by aslefshrugged on Jul 8, 2022 8:03:01 GMT
Maybe but until they arrive at Woodford the first time wouldn't they still be a "Woodford via Hainault" service? Otherwise it would be a Woodford via Hainault service that terminated at Hainault on the Inner Rail
PS I'm on pretty heavy duty painkillers at the moment and the pink dragon sitting on my shoulder is telling me what to type...
|
|
|
Post by aslefshrugged on Jul 8, 2022 4:56:01 GMT
There is one Woodford via Hainault service every day under WTT70. After they arrive at Woodford they continue as Woodford - Hainault shuttles, replacing one of the earlier shuttles (171 and 172)
Monday - Friday Train 023 departs Ealing Broadway 18:18, arrives Hainault 19:27, departs for Woodford 19:28
Saturday Train 146 departs Ealing Bwy 16:57, arrives Hainault 18:03, departs 18:07 for Woodford
Sunday Train 074 departs White City 17:49, arrives Hainault 18:45, departs 18:46 for Woodford
|
|
|
Post by aslefshrugged on Jul 5, 2022 8:08:40 GMT
When I worked on the gatelines the Revenue Control Inspectors would put blocks on child tickets, Freedom Passes, Staff Passes, etc. but as that was nearly 20 years ago I have no idea what they do these days.
|
|
|
Post by aslefshrugged on Jul 5, 2022 8:01:39 GMT
I would imagine the owner of the EOR, also being a "property developer" as I understand it, may have an interest in local developments. Did a bit of digging Quinn Estates and Redrow Homes applied to redevelop North Weald Golf Course back in 2018 since when there have been a number of changes but Epping Forest council still haven't given approval. Quinn Estates have now appealed against Epping Forest's failure to make a decision and the likely outcome is a public inquiry later this year The development would include 555 homes (40% affordable), a 70-bed retirement home, a 70-bed nursing home, a primary school, medical centre, a local shopping centre, a sports pavilion with open-air pitches, a scouts hut, office space, a new country park, a park-and-ride bus station and road works including a new roundabout on the A414. I couldn't find any connection between Epping Ongar Railway Ltd (registered office in Upminster) and Quinn Estates (Canterbury) or Redrow Homes (N Wales) on the Companies House website
|
|
|
Post by aslefshrugged on Jul 4, 2022 10:51:14 GMT
Central Line ATO can't coast (I've been off work for the last eight days and didn't notice any slow start before that)
|
|
|
Post by aslefshrugged on Jul 3, 2022 11:28:46 GMT
After Epping you can still see the unused tracks running out of the station and under the bridge towards Ongar. I was wondering how far down from Epping is actually owned by TFL? Not far according to the Epping Ongar Railway website which says there's "just 100 metres between the end of our running line and the end of the Central Line" and "the buffer stops can be seen at the boundary". EOR has plans to build a new platform at "Epping Glade" although no suggestion of where funding would come from. TfL are certainly unlikely to want to fund anything outside Greater London and I doubt if Epping Forest council has any spare cash lying around www.eorailway.co.uk/the-railway/along-the-branch/
|
|
|
Post by aslefshrugged on Jul 2, 2022 9:19:28 GMT
In reply to an FOI request in January 2020 TfL estimated that fare dodging cost £116m a year across all operations (TfL's total fares revenue 2019/20 £4751m) Estimated fare evasion rates were:- Buses 1.86% London Underground 1.9% DLR 0.58% London Overground 1.4% TfL Rail (western section) 1.99% TfL Rail (eastern section0 1.15% Trams 1.46% Ironically the DLR has the lowest fare evasion rate despite not having ticket gates at the vast majority of stations The obvious question is would an increased level of revenue protection be economically viable at a time when TfL is short of funding and needs to prioritise spending tfl.gov.uk/corporate/transparency/freedom-of-information/foi-request-detail?referenceId=FOI-2734-1920
|
|
|
Post by aslefshrugged on Jul 2, 2022 2:08:19 GMT
Do gateline staff routinely report eg a gate vaulter to Rev? There is an app installed on station staff iPads that is used to report fare evasion and anti social behaviour, which is then used to identify problem areas. Although some staff question its effectiveness. The consensus amongst station staff is that the Wide Aisle Gates fitted around 10-15 years ago have exacerbated fare evasion as they are easier to “double through” or simply push open. The old layout of having a manual gate controlled by staff is arguably more effective against fare evasion. Manual gates require a member of staff to be physically at the gateline at all times, Wide Aisle Gates allow passengers in wheelchairs, with pushchairs, children or luggage to go through the gateline without assistance which leaves staff free to deal with other duties like assisting passengers at the ticket machines. With cuts to staff, first under Fit for the Future (inc. ticket office closures) and now due to budget cuts I doubt if there are enough staff to ensure that someone is always going to be at the gateline
|
|
|
Post by aslefshrugged on Jul 1, 2022 1:27:01 GMT
The Tube isn't TfL's biggest problem, before Covid it was the only part of TfL that operated with a surplus (profit). The big deficit is buses, they've been operating at a loss for decades but if fares were brought up to meet cost they would be so expensive that passenger numbers would collapse.
There are no more efficiencies to be made, TfL has been cutting back wherever possible since 2015/16 when it had an annual operating deficit of £1.6bn. That was down to £0.4bn by 2019/20 and was on course to breaking even in a year or two. Lockdown has put everything back to square one but the only thing to cut now is services which is why TfL have launched a consultation on proposed withdrawal of bus routes (consultation is a legal requirement)
|
|
|
Post by aslefshrugged on Jul 1, 2022 1:14:12 GMT
Do gateline staff routinely report eg a gate vaulter to Rev? Not when I was working on stations (Jan 1998 - Aug 2003) I was told that all CCTV recordings are scanned with face recognition tech, etc. to detect repeat offenders and build a profile of their movements. These idiots tend to use the same stations so the Revenue know who they're looking for and where they are going to be
|
|
|
Post by aslefshrugged on Jun 29, 2022 5:05:23 GMT
I imagine step free access on the outer rail platform would require lifts, probably something similar to those at Loughton on the "Fairlop" end of the platforms.
|
|
|
Post by aslefshrugged on Jun 22, 2022 15:53:49 GMT
Nothing (providing things haven't changed since 2003)
Back when I was on stations we were told we were there to assist passengers and to assist with any operational situation we were trained/licenced to do.
We were told to leave fare dodgers to Revenue Control. The gateline is covered by CCTV and "The Rev" download the recordings
|
|
|
Post by aslefshrugged on Jun 22, 2022 6:08:45 GMT
Gants Hill, Wanstead closed but Redbridge open so I guess all available staff sent to Redbridge to keep that open
Leyton, Mile End, Bethnal Green closed. As two consecutive stations were closed we had to go coded manual Stratford to Liverpool Street both directions
Trains had to be stabled by 6:30pm because the day shift at the Power Supply Control Centre (Unite) booked off at 7pm and the night shift would be on strike. The day shift doesn't book on until 7am which is why the service won't resume until 8am today
|
|
|
Post by aslefshrugged on Jun 10, 2022 7:18:56 GMT
It seems that the new trains will be initially restricted to perform as 1973 tube stock that they replace, but those trains still remain restricted as the 1959 tube stock that they replaced. The 1959 tube stock was a post-war build of 1938 tube stock, and inter-worked with some of those trains, so I presume had similar performance. Does that mean that the new trains will perform as Piccadilly trains have over almost 90 years! Surely the new trains will know their location and, once the old trains have all gone, could have improved performance in areas resignalled since the 1973 stock was delivered? The new trains will be manually driven using the same coloured light/fixed block signal system with the same speed restrictions as the 1973 stock, they won't "know their location" until the signalling is upgraded to CBTC and given TfL's current financial situation no one knows when that will be
|
|
|
Post by aslefshrugged on Jun 9, 2022 12:01:46 GMT
|
|
|
Post by aslefshrugged on Jun 9, 2022 3:39:15 GMT
I like the Paris metro take on strike days. Leave all barriers open, people can travel on whatever trains actually run for free. Similar to the Tube the Paris Metro has five unions representing different grades (CGT, FO, Unsa, Solidaires and La Base) so I doubt if station staff leave the gates open when the drivers are on strike.
|
|
|
Post by aslefshrugged on Jun 8, 2022 18:26:59 GMT
If TFL staff did that, they’d.be in breach of contract, and therefore be liable to be sacked. I've heard that many times, but am puzzled as to quite how that can be when withdrawal of labour, which is also a breach of contract, is protected where that withdrawal of labour is part of legal strike action. Seriously? When station staff book on for work they are supposed to do your job which includes checking that those with valid tickets can travel When you are on strike they don't do their job Withdrawal of labour is still legally permissible (in a country with the most draconian labour laws in western Europe)
|
|
|
Post by aslefshrugged on Jun 8, 2022 9:42:57 GMT
According to the emergency plans for the station, there is a minimum staffing level of one…but only when Leyton Orient are playing at home. On the 6th, a driver inadvertently let off some passengers. Staff had to come down from Leytonstone to let them out. The train must have been in Coded Manual, if it had been in ATO then "station skip" would have taken it through the platform at 20kph I don't think The Os were playing Monday so that can't be the reason.
|
|
|
Post by aslefshrugged on Jun 8, 2022 8:33:44 GMT
When I booked on for work Monday there was a generral discussion as to why Leyton was closed when it wasn't a "Section 12" and nobody knew When I booked on today the TOM informed me that apparently someone (local plod, fire brigade, Waltham Forest council?) has decided leaving Leyton open unstaffed during a strike is a "security risk". No, me neither "Security risk", like "Health and safety risk" is used so often to mean things like "too hard", "don't want to" and "there isn't actually a reason" that it is essentially meaningless unless specifics are given regarding the actual nature of the actual risk it's completely meaningless. That would make sense if it was TfL who decided that Leyton was a "security risk" but my TOM said the decision was made by someone outside. Leyton is a pretty simple station, two platforms with two sets of stairs to a small ticket hall, similar to many "open section" stations that are left unstaffed during strikes (and other times). I'm sure there are reasons which the local Area Manager could clarify but as I work train-side I don't have a great deal of communication with the station-side of the business
|
|
|
Post by aslefshrugged on Jun 7, 2022 22:14:31 GMT
When I booked on for work Monday there was a generral discussion as to why Leyton was closed when it wasn't a "Section 12" and nobody knew
When I booked on today the TOM informed me that apparently someone (local plod, fire brigade, Waltham Forest council?) has decided leaving Leyton open unstaffed during a strike is a "security risk".
No, me neither
|
|
|
Post by aslefshrugged on Jun 7, 2022 22:07:00 GMT
I think you'll find the pits are there for drainage
|
|
|
Post by aslefshrugged on Jun 7, 2022 8:59:21 GMT
Drafted in enough staff to keep the prestige stations open. I used the Elizabeth line Canary Wharf to TCR earlier. AIUI Elizabeth line station staff are not on strike (just like LO staff are not on strike), Canary Wharf being an EL only station means it was operating as normal. At TCR only the Dean Street entrance was open, presumably because that is operated by EL staff not LU staff. TCR couldn't open at all if there were no LU staff. As D Stock said they prioritised the "prestige" stations so TCR would have had managers, etc. from the Cover Group (I think TCR is Northern West End) and anyone else who was familiarised that had booked on for work
|
|
|
Post by aslefshrugged on Jun 4, 2022 6:32:11 GMT
A station staff strike has started from today until 10th July, as many as you know (action short of a strike) as of now: Chancery Lane - closed due to unavailability of staff Finsbury Park - closed due to unavailability of staff Holloway Road - closed due to overcrowding Lancaster Gate - closed due to unavailability of staff Mansion House - closed due to unavailability of staff Russell Square - closed due to unavailability of staff Tufnell Park - closed due to faulty platform equipment / unavailability of staff (keeps changing on website) It's not a strike Staff are refusing to work overtime and these closures illustrate just how short of staff the stations actually are Maybe if station staff hadn't been so willing to work overtime station closeures would have been more common and management would have had to deal with the issue. This isn't an option on the train-side as we don't work overtime, if there's no driver available the train is cancelled (also if we go on strike we can't make up the lost pay by working a rest day)
|
|
|
Post by aslefshrugged on May 31, 2022 11:14:28 GMT
The fairly obvious reason why they built a fence on one side of the middle road at Greenford is that back in the days of slam door trains whoever had responsibility to check that it was safe to leave (driver or guard?) would not be able to view both sides at the same time.
Assuming that the current service is "driver only operated" I'm guess they only open on one side now because they only have CCTV/mirrors for one platform (cheaper)
|
|
|
Post by aslefshrugged on May 29, 2022 11:58:23 GMT
The Greenford branch used slam door Class 121 bubble cars for many years from 1958, and slam door steam hauled carriages before that. There was NEVER any problem Then, somebody found a way of spending money and proclaimed that a fence should be built on one side. Waste of money, time, resources, (intelligence), etc, There hasn't been a fence on either side of the middle platform at Greenford since I started driving the Central line in 2003
|
|
|
Post by aslefshrugged on May 29, 2022 7:39:37 GMT
In at least some cases on the national network it is because it is only possible to monitor one side of the train at a time but it is not possible to close the doors on only one side of the train, thus creating a risk of trapping someone in the doors on the side not being monitored. ...leading to the annoying situation in the centre GWR bay road at Greenford that their doors only open one side despite passengers changing to/from Central line trains on both sides. Annoying? GWR use 2-car trains on the Greenford branch line (3-car at most), it hardly rates an inconvenience!
|
|
|
Post by aslefshrugged on May 29, 2022 7:29:31 GMT
So what happens at Stratford westbound? If the 'doors closed' visual does not reappear, you cannot tell which side has a problem? Stratford isn't a terminus so we aren't changing ends or changing driver The procedure is to re-open doors on one side and close, if DCV doesn't come on try again on the other side. If that doesn't work repeat the process a couple of times and if it still doesn't work you have to walk back one side physically checking the doors, use the rear cab to cross to the other platform then do the same along the other side. Thankfully I've not had that happen once since Platform 3A opened in 2011
|
|