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Post by aslefshrugged on Jul 29, 2018 9:57:23 GMT
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Post by aslefshrugged on Jul 29, 2018 9:47:15 GMT
Platform 1 is part of 21 Road but usually called the "Bay Road" to distinguish it from the other half of 21 Road under the road bridge used for reversing.
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Post by aslefshrugged on Jul 28, 2018 11:31:28 GMT
HS2 was a strategy to avoid making a decision on a third runway with the ridiculous suggestion that High Speed rail would sufficiently reduce the demand for domestic flights that a third runway would not be necessary. Domestic passengers account for just a tiny fraction, the demand for flights at Heathrow is from overseas travellers flying into and out of London.
I agree that more capacity is needed on the WCML but no one seems to have bothered researching whether we could reduce demand on the WCML by improving connections around London rather than pushing everything through it. A dozen smaller projects might have the same effect as one big one but obviously they wouldn't grab the headlines the way HS2 would.
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Post by aslefshrugged on Jul 27, 2018 5:41:31 GMT
At yesterday's branch meeting the motion to issue a statement similar to RMT's received unanimous backing from Leytonstone drivers.
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Post by aslefshrugged on Jul 26, 2018 11:38:22 GMT
Depot space is hard to come by, so its unlikely any existing depot space will be sold off. Why not build over it? White City depot is UNDER the Westfield Centre Westfield wasn't built over the old depot which was a lot closer to station than the new one. If memory serves the old depot closed about a year before the new one opened, if you built over London Road it would also have to close while building work was in progress meaning that there would only be four trains stabled south of Queens Park (two sidings and both platforms)
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Post by aslefshrugged on Jul 25, 2018 11:48:11 GMT
Maybe it started and finished during one of two week periods I was on Annual Leave that year but I certainly do not recall being told we had to that at Newbury Park at any time in the last 15 years.
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Post by aslefshrugged on Jul 25, 2018 10:12:25 GMT
Last week we had this in Central Line News Issue 7 17/07/18:-
Except it won't get better while we have utterly abysmal WTT69, while we are running 24 tph up until 10pm and while we don't have enough drivers.
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Post by aslefshrugged on Jul 25, 2018 9:47:02 GMT
I did a couple of shifts with a Central Line Instructor Operator a couple of years ago and we reversed at Newbury Park. At that time, and it may be different now, the procedure was to make announcements and to flash the lights on and off to encourage passengers to leave the train and then close the doors in the normal way. Maybe the trial came to an end but you are required to change ends there although I seem to a have some recollection of it being a colour light move? I've worked the Central Line since 2003, that has never been the procedure at Newbury Park or anywhere else, it sounds as if you had a IOp who was too lazy to get up and close the doors on the porter buttons as per the Rulebook. From the inner rail platform to the siding is a coloured light move but the move back to the outer rail platform is a shunt move.
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Post by aslefshrugged on Jul 24, 2018 15:13:56 GMT
From Rulebook 5, Movement of trains due to unusually circumstances, Section 12 Carrying customers over shunt signalled moves.
That is pretty straightforward, train drivers cannot take passengers over a shunt signal without authority from the signaller. We'd need major revisions of the Waterloo & City Line Supplement to make the proposed procedure even acceptable by LU's own standards.
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Post by aslefshrugged on Jul 24, 2018 13:16:21 GMT
The unions don't need to come up with a coherent argument because the procedure is right there in London Underground's own Rulebook 8, Section 3.3, if you fail to follow the rules then you open yourself up to disciplinary procedure and I certainly don't trust management not to blame the driver if there were an accident or injury.
The Bakerloo drivers initially accepted a change to the procedures but after numerous incidents they went back to the Rulebook, closing the doors on the porter buttons which caused serious delays to the timetable. Management eventually relented and brought back station staff to assist at Queen's Park. Obviously the Northern has been more fortunate but all it will take is one serious incident and I suspect the whole thing would become contentious.
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Post by aslefshrugged on Jul 24, 2018 8:51:07 GMT
When the Central Line was closed after the Chancery Lane derailment in 2003 we had loads of passengers turn up at Stratford saying that the staff at Liverpool Street had told them that trains would be running from Stratford. True we had trains but not Central Line trains.
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Post by aslefshrugged on Jul 24, 2018 7:39:32 GMT
From observing S Stock going out of service at Barking staff press one of the door open/closed buttons for two or three seconds and that closes the all the doors on that car. Its the same as porter buttons. I have only ever seen the driver closing the doors on an S-Stock with their equivalent of Porter Buttons... never station staff. There's LU station staff at Barking, they've got an office at the east end of Platform 3/west end of Platform 2. I've seen them closing the rear cars while the driver closes the front two cars.
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Post by aslefshrugged on Jul 24, 2018 4:13:01 GMT
Does this apply at Kennington? I suspect that will depend on how you define "terminating". Also, what about S Stock which are not fitted with porter buttons - but an alternate system? Terminating in this case means going out of passenger service From observing S Stock going out of service at Barking staff press one of the door open/closed buttons for two or three seconds and that closes the all the doors on that car. Its the same as porter buttons. A union is only as good as its members, at Leytonstone both local reps are opposed to removing detrainment staff at Waterloo and its up to the drivers whether they accept it or not. If the Northern Line drivers accepted the removal of staff at Kennington then there isn't much the union can do although there's no reason the drivers can't raise the issue again, If the drivers at Leytonstone agree with it then its going to require extensive amendment to the W&C Line Supplement before it can go ahead. <<superteacher: Posts merged.>>
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Post by aslefshrugged on Jul 23, 2018 21:09:01 GMT
Rulebook 8 Managing the Platform Train Interface Section 3.3 Detrainments When a train is terminating or is to be detrained:- You must visually check all customers have got off the train and close the doors using the porter’s buttons. Nothing about flashing the saloon lights or making three PAs before closing from the cab. Does this apply at Kennington? the Rulebooks apply to the whole of London Underground unless there is a specific exception for Kennington in the Northern Line supplement or anywhere else. We've just been told that station staff will be withdrawn from Waterloo arrivals platform and that drivers will be left to close the doors except rather than going back to check that the cars are empty of passengers management want us to do a PA then close the doors from the cab.
They did this before on the Bakerloo Line at Queens Park in 2012 which led to numerous carry overs into the sidings, the drivers then insisted on going back to check and close the doors manually which led to serious delays to the service. Eventually management caved in and restored the platform staff.
They also proposed it for the Central Line when they introduced WTT 67 in 2013 but it was eventually shelved after opposition from the unions.
Both unions have said they will advise drivers to go back and close the doors on the porter buttons
Management never learn... Of course most passengers will know that this is a two station shuttle and be so keen to catch their onward train that they would be out of the train even before the doors had opened - if they could! Then there will be transport enthusiasts, keen on some 'rare track'. Just like at Kennington. 'nuff said. Simon
That is irrelevant, if a passenger is carried over into a depot or sidings its the driver's responsibility and they can be held responsible. People have been sacked in the past for carry overs. Does or did the Bakerloo line have detrainment at Harrow & Wealdstone without the assistance of station staff? Or am I misremembering that I've seen this here? I use this station on a fairly regular basis and there is usually a member of staff who checks the length of the train without the porter's buttons and gives verbal confirmation to close the doors to the driver. Again, unless there is a specific exemption in the Bakerloo Line Supplement then this goes against the Rulebook and if there were a carry over the driver could face disciplinary action. <<superteacher: Posts merged.>>
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Post by aslefshrugged on Jul 23, 2018 16:28:05 GMT
Rulebook 8 Managing the Platform Train Interface
Section 3.3 Detrainments
When a train is terminating or is to be detrained:-
You must visually check all customers have got off the train and close the doors using the porter’s buttons.
Nothing about flashing the saloon lights or making three PAs before closing from the cab.
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Post by aslefshrugged on Jul 23, 2018 16:19:45 GMT
Rulebook 6, Section 2.5 Relief arrangements
Train operator carrying out a relief
When you are relieving another train operator, you must be in position to take over thetrain at the specified time. You must tell the duty manager if your train has not arrived at the booked time.
Train operator being relieved
If you are not relieved as shown on the duty schedule, or as previously instructed, you must: • tell the duty manager, or • if you cannot do this, use the train whistle to alert the attention of station staff. When you are relieved by another train operator, you must tell that person any information affecting the train or the service
Late relief
You must tell the duty manager or customer service supervisor/manager if you cannot make your next pick-up. If you are relieved or stable your train earlier than shown on your duty schedule, you must tell the nearest duty manager and carry out the instructions you are given
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Post by aslefshrugged on Jul 23, 2018 11:00:47 GMT
"Staff absence", they used that when the stations staff had an overtime ban
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Post by aslefshrugged on Jul 23, 2018 2:26:35 GMT
The correct procedure is that a driver should remain with the train until relieved, if their relief fails to appear at the specified time they should contact the Manager on the desk. In the case of Platform 1 at Hainault there is a phone behind the signal in a yellow box, you pick it up and it puts you straight through to the Duty Manager's desk. It's then up to the Manager to find the driver who's late or send a spare out to cover.
If anything the driver was at fault for not contacting the manager sooner. Some Hainault drivers seem to be very lackadaisical about picking up trains and the managers don't seem to be too bothered about it.
Its unlikely the train could have been early, there's a semi auto at Grange Hill (GRH 9260) and another half way between Grange Hill and Hainault (HAI 6780) protecting the points into the depot, neither signal would clear unless Wood Lane cleared them early.
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Post by aslefshrugged on Jul 22, 2018 11:18:28 GMT
And with the tight headway on the line, it could cause delays to the service. Is part of the management's rationale that this proposal to cease checking the train and using porter buttons could allow the train to clear the platform more quickly and hence increase train frequency? If staff are closing with the porter buttons they can close the doors the moment the last passenger gets off. If the driver is closing the doors from the cab they'll be watching on the CCTV and after people stop getting off they will have to make a PA announcement before closing the doors so it will probably slow down the process.
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Post by aslefshrugged on Jul 21, 2018 23:49:52 GMT
At risk of provoking ire - what is the big issue with over-carrying passengers? As I understand it, trains don't tend to wait in the sidings for very long in any case (stepping back etc)? If passengers do end up being over-carried, as long as it's made clear that they'll soon be taken back (for example by the driver when walking back through) to prevent panic, it shouldn't cause that many issues surely? I've never quite understood the convention in recent years of avoiding reversing sidings because of this requirement (to check for passengers before using them). Many other countries transport systems seem to avoid this? Am I missing something? The signals into and out of Waterloo depot are shunt signals, the basic rule is that shunt moves are made without passengers. Under Operational Standards Notice No. 101, brought in 2011 ahead of the Olympics, if a train driver carries passengers into a siding or depot they then have to get authority from the line controller to carry the passengers back over a shunt signal. The problem is that at Waterloo its quite possible for a driver to bring passengers into the depot and for another driver to take them out again without knowing they are there, without asking the line controller for permission. Technically that could lead to the driver being dismissed for failing to follow procedure. In the past drivers have been sacked for over-carrying passengers into depots and sidings, we're not going to put our jobs on the line because management want to save a few thousand quid. Plus there is the "mad Derek" scenario where we take a drunk into the depot and they get violent.
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Post by aslefshrugged on Jul 21, 2018 13:33:46 GMT
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Post by aslefshrugged on Jul 21, 2018 11:24:02 GMT
Its not so much incompetence, more a complete lack of imagination. They want to cut costs and the easiest cuts to make are to station staff, they keep falling back on the same idea because they can't think of anything else, maybe if they keep trying it will work one day. Obviously they're far more intelligent than train drivers because they are paid so much more than us.
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Post by aslefshrugged on Jul 21, 2018 8:57:04 GMT
In 2010 there were four train crew depots; Morden, Golders Green, High Barnet and East Finchley
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Post by aslefshrugged on Jul 20, 2018 17:06:53 GMT
We've just been told that station staff will be withdrawn from Waterloo arrivals platform and that drivers will be left to close the doors except rather than going back to check that the cars are empty of passengers management want us to do a PA then close the doors from the cab.
They did this before on the Bakerloo Line at Queens Park in 2012 which led to numerous carry overs into the sidings, the drivers then insisted on going back to check and close the doors manually which led to serious delays to the service. Eventually management caved in and restored the platform staff.
They also proposed it for the Central Line when they introduced WTT 67 in 2013 but it was eventually shelved after opposition from the unions.
Both unions have said they will advise drivers to go back and close the doors on the porter buttons
Management never learn...
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Post by aslefshrugged on Jul 20, 2018 7:33:50 GMT
"1. Hainault 1 min 2. Special 13 mins 3. Epping 14 mins."
That "Special" looks like a train that has developed a fault somewhere on the EB, been taken out of service and has delayed all the trains behind it. Probably going into Hainault depot via Grange Hill
"occasionally causing the train to crawl along at walking pace until the driver applies the brakes and restarts the train so that it departures normally."
Actually we have to stop the train and switch to Coded Manual, if we left the trains in ATO they'd continue to crawl along.
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Post by aslefshrugged on Jul 20, 2018 5:28:28 GMT
Were the public screaming out for more trains during the off peak and weekends? If anything the public seem to want a reliable service with more trains during the peaks but instead the timetable has delivered an unreliable service with trains cancelled during the peaks because the trains aren't getting enough maintenance and there aren't enough drivers.
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Post by aslefshrugged on Jul 19, 2018 9:42:31 GMT
Add Newbury Park and Northolt reversers in the evening to that list.
It seems very much as if the sole consideration of both WTT 67 and WTT 69 was squeeze as many trains in as they possibly could with no thought as to whether passenger numbers needed that many trains, whether the trains were up to it, whether there was enough staff to cover it or how the service would be affected by shut downs.
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Post by aslefshrugged on Jul 19, 2018 8:27:28 GMT
We had a points failure at Ealing Broadway last night, when I got there just after 8:30pm only Plat.6 was in use. As I mentioned before there's very little wiggle room in WTT 69, we don't get much turnaround time even after the evening peak so by the time I'd waited for the train on Plat 6 to leave, pulled in and changed ends I was already running late.
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Post by aslefshrugged on Jul 16, 2018 9:43:30 GMT
On Saturday there were a lot of people in bright orange Hi-Viz clothing and hard hats on both Central Line platforms poking around the "inverts" (the spaces below the platforms). As the Central Line is a fair distance away from the Northern Line I'm not sure how that could be connected.
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Post by aslefshrugged on Jul 16, 2018 7:43:21 GMT
Signal failure at Debden, no service Epping to Loughton, delays between Loughton and Leytonstone according to Central Line Twitter
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