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Post by Deleted on Apr 26, 2011 15:59:52 GMT
Been the best part of three weeks now since the last 09 stock entered service. Is there a reason for the delay? Yes. 35, 36 and 37 experienced an issue in Derby with build (now resolved), which delayed their delivery slightly. 35 is being used in London on day test paths testing new ATO software (so being left with that on rather than swap back and forth for service), surprised this hasn't been spotted out and about. 36 should be about ready to enter service.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 26, 2011 16:27:53 GMT
Yes. 35, 36 and 37 experienced an issue in Derby with build (now resolved), which delayed their delivery slightly. 35 is being used in London on day test paths testing new ATO software (so being left with that on rather than swap back and forth for service), surprised this hasn't been spotted out and about. 36 should be about ready to enter service. Are we allowed to know what the build issue was? Also, can you tell us a little bit about this new ATO software? What's different about it?
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Post by superteacher on Apr 26, 2011 18:16:18 GMT
Saturday 23 April is reported as being the first day of all 2009 Tube Stock on the Victoria Line. Whether this was the case all day, I know not. Yes, I was thinking that too. Although I observed all 29 trains to be 2009 stock, you never know if a 67 stock made a crafty appearance later in the day!
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Post by Deleted on May 4, 2011 20:40:10 GMT
Train number 73 + 74 were out today. I saw them leaving Victoria siding heading Northbound at around 14.50 today. I presumed it was testing as the lights were out in every carriage with the exception of the rear where there was somebody in a hi-vis sat there. The display said Not in Service
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Post by superteacher on May 4, 2011 20:51:36 GMT
Train number 73 + 74 were out today. I saw them leaving Victoria siding heading Northbound at around 14.50 today. I presumed it was testing as the lights were out in every carriage with the exception of the rear where there was somebody in a hi-vis sat there. The display said Not in Service That'll be in service in the next few days then.
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Post by dpb on May 8, 2011 0:07:29 GMT
I was on Train 12 today (I think), and noticed that the maps in the carriages (the ones in between the ads) were showing the ELL as under construction. How old must those maps be? The ELL has been open since about April last year hasn't it? Surely they must be due an update. Is it the same on all the 09 stocks?
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Post by norbitonflyer on May 8, 2011 8:05:35 GMT
I was on Train 12 today (I think), and noticed that the maps in the carriages (the ones in between the ads) were showing the ELL as under construction. How old must those maps be? The ELL has been open since about April last year hasn't it? direct interchange between Victoria Line and ELL has only been open a few months, since the extension of the ELL to "H&I" - maybe that's got something to do with it?
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Post by Deleted on May 8, 2011 20:36:57 GMT
I'm pretty sure I've seen at least one new train with newer, ELLified maps, even if most of them seem to have horribly out-of-date ones.
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Post by Deleted on May 13, 2011 18:49:17 GMT
I was on t8 this evening the acceleration was real flow but then the driver apologised for the slow speed he said that some if the motors were not working and that the train will be taken out of service at seven sisters
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Post by Deleted on May 13, 2011 19:27:34 GMT
I was on t8 this evening the acceleration was real flow but then the driver apologised for the slow speed he said that some if the motors were not working and that the train will be taken out of service at seven sisters I've also experienced this in the past. I always wondered whether some of the motors were deliberately switched off so that the 09s wouldn't catch up with the 67s so easily, but that seems highly unlikely, especially at this stage... On the other hand, the motors shouldn't be breaking down so soon already, should they?
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Post by Deleted on May 13, 2011 19:30:58 GMT
bioluminescence; could be so simple as motors tripped!
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Post by Deleted on May 13, 2011 21:33:22 GMT
bioluminescence; could be so simple as motors tripped! Oh, really...? Wouldn't they all trip if it was due to the same cause though?
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Post by plasmid on May 13, 2011 21:49:02 GMT
This happens on some of the Central Line 92ts. Though it has massively improved by refurbishing the gearboxes and replacing the type of rail pick up shoe.
On trains that were affected 2 cars would be on emergency lighting, no door chimes or even announcements.
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Post by Deleted on May 14, 2011 9:35:31 GMT
There have been no motor failures recently, but a some traction packages 'tripped'.
The new trains have a clever system that detects issues with the traction power supply, such as earth faults and harmonics out of tolerance. There are currently a few locations (3 substation sections) where the traction power supply sometimes exceeds the limits set on the train, so the train correctly trips the traction package to protect itself.
This will be corrected either by fixing the traction power supply, or if that is not possible the limits on the train will need to be altered, which is by way of a software update.
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Post by Deleted on May 14, 2011 22:40:07 GMT
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Post by Deleted on May 15, 2011 17:26:54 GMT
Caught 11073/74 today when heading up to Seven Sisters to video the tour finishing there. Suprisingly, this train had old maps (i.e not showing ELL going to Highbury)
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Post by Deleted on May 16, 2011 12:24:30 GMT
Suprisingly, this train had old maps (i.e not showing ELL going to Highbury) A majority of the new trains *still* seem to have maps predating the ELL's reopening at all.
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Post by simonn16 on May 17, 2011 9:41:21 GMT
Why are the 09 stock trains so unbearably hot? The 67's are much more pleasant as are other lines. I can't imagine what they're going to be like in the summer.
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Post by superteacher on May 17, 2011 19:21:07 GMT
Why are the 09 stock trains so unbearably hot? The 67's are much more pleasant as are other lines. I can't imagine what they're going to be like in the summer. If it's anything like they were last summer, opening an oven door should give you a good impression. They are going to have to look into it in my opinion - OK, so they have better ventilation, but this is only blowing around hot air, so making it like a fan assisted oven. Great!
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Post by Deleted on May 17, 2011 19:22:37 GMT
Why are the 09 stock trains so unbearably hot? The 67's are much more pleasant as are other lines. I can't imagine what they're going to be like in the summer. If it's anything like they were last summer, opening an oven door should give you a good impression. They are going to have to look into it in my opinion - OK, so they have better ventilation, but this is only blowing around hot air, so making it like a fan assisted oven. Great! Wait until regen braking takes over from rheo and the line ventilation upgrade is complete.. should be much better!
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Post by superteacher on May 17, 2011 19:26:11 GMT
If it's anything like they were last summer, opening an oven door should give you a good impression. They are going to have to look into it in my opinion - OK, so they have better ventilation, but this is only blowing around hot air, so making it like a fan assisted oven. Great! Wait until regen braking takes over from rheo and the line ventilation upgrade is complete.. should be much better! Let's hope so! What doesn't help is the sheer heat the trains give off. If you stand close to the platform when an 09 is standing there, you can really feel it!
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Post by North End on May 17, 2011 19:27:19 GMT
Why are the 09 stock trains so unbearably hot? The 67's are much more pleasant as are other lines. I can't imagine what they're going to be like in the summer. If it's anything like they were last summer, opening an oven door should give you a good impression. They are going to have to look into it in my opinion - OK, so they have better ventilation, but this is only blowing around hot air, so making it like a fan assisted oven. Great! The plan is they will be switched to regenerative braking once the last 67 stock is withdrawn. That will reduce the amount of heat generated when braking. I've heard rumours from a reliable source that they want to do this as soon as possible, which could mean the last 67 stock of all runs earlier than previously envisaged - at the expense of running with a small number of cancellations.
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Post by superteacher on May 17, 2011 19:31:54 GMT
If it's anything like they were last summer, opening an oven door should give you a good impression. They are going to have to look into it in my opinion - OK, so they have better ventilation, but this is only blowing around hot air, so making it like a fan assisted oven. Great! The plan is they will be switched to regenerative braking once the last 67 stock is withdrawn. That will reduce the amount of heat generated when braking. I've heard rumours from a reliable source that they want to do this as soon as possible, which could mean the last 67 stock of all runs earlier than previously envisaged - at the expense of running with a small number of cancellations. I have a sneaky feeling that the last even run may be on the 27th May . . .although the plan was initially to run a few up to July, will that be more trouble than it's worth?
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Post by Deleted on May 18, 2011 20:19:17 GMT
The plan is they will be switched to regenerative braking once the last 67 stock is withdrawn. That will reduce the amount of heat generated when braking. They are regen braking now, just not at the 790V they are designed to. Regen braking is currently capped at 690V IIRC. So it won't be that big a benefit. For regen braking to work, another train needs to be taking traction (accelerating) in the same power section. If the no other trains are accelerating, the rheo is used. The way you would get a big benefit from regen, and much less heat dissipated, would be to make the line always receptive to regen, i.e. make it possible for the substations to put power back into the national grid, or have lineside resistor banks, or energy storage.
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Post by Deleted on May 18, 2011 20:34:01 GMT
They are regen braking now, just not at the 790V they are designed to. Regen braking is currently capped at 690V IIRC. So it won't be that big a benefit. For regen braking to work, another train needs to be taking traction (accelerating) in the same power section. If the no other trains are accelerating, the rheo is used. Can the trains automatically detect whether there is another one taking traction in the same section?
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Post by Deleted on May 18, 2011 21:56:04 GMT
Kind of, it detects whether the line is receptive, it will regen what it can (as much power as can be put into the rails as possible), the remainder is put through the rheo.
Imagine that the equation is: Maximum regen current = Sum of current draw by other trains in section.
Trains can regen upto 3500 Amps (as well as take traction), so if a train is braking in a section, 2 trains are stationary in platforms (drawing say 25A each), and another train is maintaining speed between stations (drawing say 500A), the braking train will only be able to regenerate a maximum of the 550A that is being drawn by the other three trains in the section.
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Post by Deleted on May 18, 2011 22:42:44 GMT
Kind of, it detects whether the line is receptive, it will regen what it can (as much power as can be put into the rails as possible), the remainder is put through the rheo. Imagine that the equation is: Maximum regen current = Sum of current draw by other trains in section. Trains can regen upto 3500 Amps (as well as take traction), so if a train is braking in a section, 2 trains are stationary in platforms (drawing say 25A each), and another train is maintaining speed between stations (drawing say 500A), the braking train will only be able to regenerate a maximum of the 550A that is being drawn by the other three trains in the section. That sounds like some very clever technology, especially given that the electrical "status" of all the trains is constantly changing... *Just curious [and this may be a silly question] - is there any significance in the fact that you've used Amps here, but Volts above?
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Post by Deleted on May 20, 2011 15:13:01 GMT
I saw t38 this afternoon at finsbury park stn NB, was this it's 1st run?
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Post by Deleted on May 20, 2011 15:43:38 GMT
bioluminescene - if the current remains the same but the regen voltage is higher a greater amount of energy is being put back in. But I doubt that will be the case.
I heard the maximum current draw under acceleration is currently capped for 09s?
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Post by Deleted on May 20, 2011 16:17:28 GMT
Kind of, it detects whether the line is receptive, it will regen what it can (as much power as can be put into the rails as possible), the remainder is put through the rheo. Imagine that the equation is: Maximum regen current = Sum of current draw by other trains in section. Trains can regen upto 3500 Amps (as well as take traction), so if a train is braking in a section, 2 trains are stationary in platforms (drawing say 25A each), and another train is maintaining speed between stations (drawing say 500A), the braking train will only be able to regenerate a maximum of the 550A that is being drawn by the other three trains in the section. Basic electrics generator (producing power) or motor (consuming power) unless there is digital information encoded in the electrical supply from the a a train in regenerative mode it will just be another generator which you will not be able to identify With regard to the line been receptive this means that there is a load (a train(s) taking power). I would imagine there is some balancing to try and get one train starting as another is braking to maximise efficiency and reduce demand from the National Grid. Xerces Fobe
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