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Post by Deleted on Nov 22, 2010 3:40:01 GMT
Travelled on the Victoria Line today - I'm pretty sure it must be the new stock. One side of fold-up chairs, one side of permanent chairs, 3 in each of those compartments. Sort of retro. I liked it. Might do it again, although doesn't go to many of the places I need to be all that often. 'McGuinness Deff' the 09TS. You have tried the Future of the Victoria line... Well the next 40 years anyway. ;D
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Post by edwin on Nov 24, 2010 1:10:05 GMT
Those fold-up seats are pretty much pointless IMO. Everyone just sits in them no matter how crowded it is. The same is true for the Northern line... I think a better solution would be permanent seats or perch seats like on the 96TS.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 24, 2010 4:18:05 GMT
Those fold-up seats are pretty much pointless IMO. Everyone just sits in them no matter how crowded it is. The same is true for the Northern line... I think a better solution would be permanent seats or perch seats like on the 96TS. I like tip-up seats, TBH; but you're right. Perch seats; the space is needed for perambulators etc.
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Post by astock5000 on Nov 29, 2010 9:54:01 GMT
Train 21 is due for a commissioning run on Thursday night, so probably in service early next week if all goes to plan. Did train 21 enter service?
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Ben
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Post by Ben on Nov 29, 2010 10:46:10 GMT
Got a feeling the benefit of folding seats is psychological though. If you've got a fixed chair you dont feel half as guilty lounging about on it or sticking your legs out as you do with a fold up chair. Far prefer them aswell tbh. Don't anybody give them a reason to remove them now!
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Post by Deleted on Nov 29, 2010 19:55:03 GMT
Train 21 is due for a commissioning run on Thursday night, so probably in service early next week if all goes to plan. Did train 21 enter service? It unfortunately needed some unforseen work following commissioning, it should be in service for the first time tonight or tomorrow. Train 22 is also in service now.
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Post by superteacher on Nov 29, 2010 19:57:27 GMT
Did train 21 enter service? It unfortunately needed some unforseen work following commissioning, it should be in service for the first time tonight or tomorrow. Train 22 is also in service now. How many are they running in peak service now - have they run 19 yet, as this would mean over half the total service.
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Post by littlebrute on Nov 29, 2010 23:51:51 GMT
Managed to catch 2 in the same day on Sunday! One at Oxford Circus and the other at Warren Street!
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Post by Deleted on Dec 1, 2010 12:47:00 GMT
How many are they running in peak service now - have they run 19 yet, as this would mean over half the total service. I don't recall there being 19 in service at once. Think there are 17 in service today. Will probably do 19 at some point over the next week or so - 21 trains currently commissioned for service, as train 23 has had its commissioning run.
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Post by londonstuff on Dec 1, 2010 23:34:34 GMT
I was at Green Park this evening waiting for a packed 67 to leave the southbound as it was waiting for a faulty train to be put away at Victoria (didn't find out if it was old or new). While waiting on the platform for the 67 to depart the lights from the following 09 stock were not just visible but actually lit up the whole rear half of the platform - the 09 was literally 20 metres behind the 67. I suppose this shows both how strong the LED lights are and then how little gap there was between the trains. Will the distances between trains be even shorter when the new signalling is fully commissioned? If the Jub's going to be like that when it's all up and going, it'll be immense.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 2, 2010 7:51:09 GMT
I like to think two trains not more than three meters between each other - one in the platform and one sitting outside. Then they both start to accelerate at the same rate at the same time. It just has to look awesome, but I suspect if the one in front has an emergency brake application it could be hazardious
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Post by mrfs42 on Dec 2, 2010 8:00:32 GMT
I've finally travelled in one! KX - Euston yesterday en route to Wales (ringing for a friend in Machynlleth today), crush loaded so can't really record an impression apart from very small windows. ;D
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Post by Deleted on Dec 2, 2010 9:14:55 GMT
I like to think two trains not more than three meters between each other - one in the platform and one sitting outside. Then they both start to accelerate at the same rate at the same time. It just has to look awesome, but I suspect if the one in front has an emergency brake application it could be hazardious With the original system, there are 3 track circuits within a platform. Once the train has cleared the rear two, the rearmost circuit energises with a restricted code, whilst the middle circuit still shows a 120 code. This will not change until the train ahead has left the front circuit, and at the speed the train is travelling at, will be code tripped if it proceeds onto this block as the train in front has not left. When the train ahead leaves the station, middle block will energise allowing the train already moving to proceed. The same goes for the last block. At no time are the trains less than a full braking distance apart for the speed limited by the signalling system. At least, that's how I've been shown it. 09s have a quicker service and emergency braking rate than 67s and also accelerate faster. The line has been fitted with a distance-to-go signalling system that is working in passive mode (in conjunction with the original Westinghouse) at the moment. When the last 67 is gone, this will be switched over and hopefully further increase capacity.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 2, 2010 9:46:13 GMT
I was at Green Park this evening waiting for a packed 67 to leave the southbound as it was waiting for a faulty train to be put away at Victoria (didn't find out if it was old or new). While waiting on the platform for the 67 to depart the lights from the following 09 stock were not just visible but actually lit up the whole rear half of the platform - the 09 was literally 20 metres behind the 67. I suppose this shows both how strong the LED lights are and then how little gap there was between the trains. Will the distances between trains be even shorter when the new signalling is fully commissioned? If the Jub's going to be like that when it's all up and going, it'll be immense. I highly doubt that it was 20m! I don't know of any automated system where a train can close in more than 40-50m behind the train in front, and even then at very low speed. For the following train to start accelerating the distance will need to be considerably further than 40-50m. I would be interested to know from those involved with the new Victoria Line signalling, what the minimum safety distance is, and also the platform re-occupation times?
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Post by underground2010 on Dec 3, 2010 2:28:57 GMT
The trains will be anything from 90 seconds apart.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 3, 2010 8:13:49 GMT
The platform re-occupation times, depending on what you mean would be a matter of seconds.
I recall reading that the platform entry to wheel stop, and wheel start to platform exit times have been significantly reduced and the average station-to-station running is significantly quicker.
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Post by tubeprune on Dec 3, 2010 10:58:52 GMT
The trains will be anything from 90 seconds apart. You won't get 90s. The planned headways were between 99s and 109s depending on the station. Since the highest will affect the whole route, 109s is the best possible. A 109s headway will give you 33tph but I would be surprised to see better than 31 under normal operating conditions. LU calls the the platform re-occupation time a RORIT (Run Out Run In Time) and, on the Victoria Line, this varies from 57s to 68s depending on location. You have to add dwell time and a margin to get the headway.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 5, 2010 9:10:03 GMT
[quote author=tubeprune board=victoria thread=13796 LU calls the the platform re-occupation time a RORIT (Run Out Run In Time) and, on the Victoria Line, this varies from 57s to 68s depending on location. You have to add dwell time and a margin to get the headway. [/quote]
I would assume that those figures are for the old signalling, and the RORITs will be shorter once the Victoria Line upgrade is complete?
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Post by Deleted on Dec 5, 2010 11:24:49 GMT
[quote author=tubeprune board=victoria thread=13796 LU calls the the platform re-occupation time a RORIT (Run Out Run In Time) and, on the Victoria Line, this varies from 57s to 68s depending on location. You have to add dwell time and a margin to get the headway. I would assume that those figures are for the old signalling, and the RORITs will be shorter once the Victoria Line upgrade is complete?[/quote] In terms of demonstrating re-occupation time on the Vic Line Upgrade, there are two measures: RORIF - this is a full speed RORI, where both trains are in platforms, the train behind closes its doors and starts an autorun, at a defined point the train infront closes its doors and starts an autorun. The RORIF is the time between the leading train closing its doors, and the trailing time arriving and opening its doors. The trailing train must not be impeded by the leading train (i.e. interstation run time not affected). RORIR - RORI from rest - leading train is in the platform, trailing train autorruns from the previous platform, coming to a stop at the home signal/headway post (signalled stop due to platform being occupied). The leading train closes its doors and sets off, and when it clears the station starter overlap the trailing train auto restarts and runs into the platform and opens its doors. The time between the leading train closing doors and trailing train opening doors is the RORIR. The RORIT number taken for capability calculation is the highest of the two, which is usually RORIF. Once the upgrade is completed, there will generally be an improvement in the RORI times. Targets have been set to equate to a certain capability. Within the capability model, different weightings are apportioned based on the RORI location (KCS to EUS for example will carry more weighting than TOH to BHR). So some could infact be worse (not in a critical location), but overall there will be an improvement in capabilty.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 7, 2010 11:36:31 GMT
[quote author=tubeprune board=victoria thread=13796 LU calls the the platform re-occupation time a RORIT (Run Out Run In Time) and, on the Victoria Line, this varies from 57s to 68s depending on location. You have to add dwell time and a margin to get the headway. I would assume that those figures are for the old signalling, and the RORITs will be shorter once the Victoria Line upgrade is complete? In terms of demonstrating re-occupation time on the Vic Line Upgrade, there are two measures: RORIF - this is a full speed RORI, where both trains are in platforms, the train behind closes its doors and starts an autorun, at a defined point the train infront closes its doors and starts an autorun. The RORIF is the time between the leading train closing its doors, and the trailing time arriving and opening its doors. The trailing train must not be impeded by the leading train (i.e. interstation run time not affected). RORIR - RORI from rest - leading train is in the platform, trailing train autorruns from the previous platform, coming to a stop at the home signal/headway post (signalled stop due to platform being occupied). The leading train closes its doors and sets off, and when it clears the station starter overlap the trailing train auto restarts and runs into the platform and opens its doors. The time between the leading train closing doors and trailing train opening doors is the RORIR. The RORIT number taken for capability calculation is the highest of the two, which is usually RORIF. Once the upgrade is completed, there will generally be an improvement in the RORI times. Targets have been set to equate to a certain capability. Within the capability model, different weightings are apportioned based on the RORI location (KCS to EUS for example will carry more weighting than TOH to BHR). So some could infact be worse (not in a critical location), but overall there will be an improvement in capabilty. [/quote] Thanks for the explanation. I didn't previously know that the figures were for "unimpeded" operation. Are you able to provide any post upgrade RORI figures for the busier stations such as VIC NB or KCS SB? I would also be interested to know the RORI for Brixton (currently 96secs if the inbound train is stopped at the home signal)?
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Post by plasmid on Dec 11, 2010 23:38:09 GMT
The gearboxes on the new stock seems quieter than that of the prototype. I preferred the loud whining sound.
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Post by dave1 on Dec 13, 2010 0:04:58 GMT
Saw car 13050 tonight heading down the M1
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Post by superteacher on Dec 13, 2010 19:06:07 GMT
Saw car 13050 tonight heading down the M1 That'll be part of train 25 then - train 24 will be on the line, although may not be in service yet.
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Post by Alight on Dec 16, 2010 13:14:32 GMT
Noticed yesterday that the on-board announcements have been modified so that the terminus is read immediately after announcing the station name. Thus, there is no longer a 15 second pause.
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Post by edwin on Dec 17, 2010 0:32:39 GMT
^^That's good. I still think the station should be announced before the doors open, it'll encourage people to get ready to get off before the doors open, and will shorten dwell times.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 17, 2010 9:53:07 GMT
^^That's good. I still think the station should be announced before the doors open, it'll encourage people to get ready to get off before the doors open, and will shorten dwell times. There is the next station announcement along with the door side...
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Post by edwin on Dec 18, 2010 4:43:18 GMT
^^That's good. I still think the station should be announced before the doors open, it'll encourage people to get ready to get off before the doors open, and will shorten dwell times. There is the next station announcement along with the door side... True, but this is halfway between stations. IMO this should be moved to just before arriving the station, therefore punters know the doors will be opening soon.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 18, 2010 9:09:36 GMT
True, but this is halfway between stations. IMO this should be moved to just before arriving the station, therefore punters know the doors will be opening soon. I think a train slowing down, and seeing the actual station, is good enough... Especially with the rate these stop at ;D
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Post by dazzmcguinness on Dec 18, 2010 10:49:33 GMT
Charlie J's right - there's no chance to move towards the doors anyway when it's crowded, so doesn't make much sense, and trains are waiting around forever at the moment because there are so many problems throughout the line - plenty of time to get off and on!
'McGuinness
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Post by Chris M on Dec 18, 2010 10:52:38 GMT
If the announcements are too far in advance of the station people will soon learn that you don't get up when they play but wait in your seat until longer. As the trains do stop very quickly, getting up when they start slowing down doesn't give everyone enough time to exit in an optimum manner. The best way therefore to get people by the doors is to play the announcement about the next station when people need to start getting up - i.e. shortly before just before the station as Edwin is saying.
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