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Post by sweetp on Mar 19, 2024 9:55:02 GMT
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Post by sweetp on Apr 29, 2023 12:17:11 GMT
Some may remember my post from a while ago regarding the Victoria Line signalling simulator connected to the original desk and panel from Cobourg Street. It's taken us a while, but I'm very pleased to announce that both the Control Room and Brixton IMR will be open to the public on the second Sunday of each month from May until October at Colne Valley Railway, Essex.
Colne Valley Railway (CO9 3DZ) - Opens: 10.30am, Closes: 5pm, last entry at 3pm.
Here's our opening dates, along with Colne Valley Railway attractions for the same date: 14 May - Steam / Miniature Railway Gala 11 Jun - Diesel Railcar 9 Jul - Peppa Pig / Steam + Diesel Railcar 13 Aug - Steam 10 Sep - Steam / CVR 50th anniversary 8 Oct - Diesel Gala inc. HST
Looking forward to seeing you! www.facebook.com/viclineato/vicsim.sweetp.net/www.colnevalleyrailway.co.uk/
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Post by sweetp on Jul 25, 2022 11:10:12 GMT
Apologies - I've re-read your last and realise you specifically asked for unrefurbished which I misread as refurbished. Ignore my note.
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Post by sweetp on Jul 25, 2022 10:21:21 GMT
Ok. Bear with me, as this part of the simulator isn't quite complete (no platforms, and track circuits not labelled):
Here is Seven Sisters with no trains - we're interested in the very bottom line, which runs right to left, northbound. Platform 3 (Northbound) starter is VL4, and the platform consists of the three track circuits in the rear of it. The track circuits are ATO colour-coded (red-120, blue-180, cream-270, green-420, grey-code lost) Here's a train approaching Seven Sisters P3. 420 codes all the way as far as the second track circuit in the platform, then 180 for the last one.
Then the Emergency plunger is pressed: Codes still 420 until the last track circuit which is code lost/emergency stop Beyond the starter, only certain track circuits have lost their codes, but the rest were all 120 anyway.
Another scenario: Train in the platform ready to depart with a green starter, and a 420 code: The plunger is then pressed: Codes under the train and a full train length are lost. The reason for this is that the Emergency Relay is not always the first relay in the selection circuit, sometimes a relay giving 120 (in this case VL4(RB) leverband) was ahead of the ER relay. The net effect is the same, however - if the train does not receive 180/270/420 - emergency stop (And the eagle-eyed will have spotted that VL4 has not returned to danger - it should have done - that's an incompleteness in the simulator)
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Post by sweetp on Jul 25, 2022 9:53:16 GMT
There was a lot of people that thought that! True it would kill a 420 or 270 code, however if you were coming into a platform on a 180 code, (which was most of the time when coming into a platform), you could coast. I can't remember the exact arrangements for each site (and all the old Victoria Line bookwirings have been disposed of) but from memory the operation of the plunger would cause all codes to be taken off the code feeds, not just 420 or 270. I'll have to double check this when I get access to a bookwiring though - I know some went to Victoria line ATO simulator team. From the generic description given in the original Signalling System of the Victoria Line manual from 1968, it does look like the code wasn't taken off the tracks on the approach side of the station, but only through the platform and over a train's length on departure. It's likely, however, that operation of the plunger would have caused code to be taken off tracks on the approach as a consequence of the platform tracks losing code. Someone like bruce or sweetp might have a better memory than me! As Tom suggests, where the Emergency Relay (plunger relay) was included the code selection, it cut the feed entirely, so no code.
Some stations (although I've not found the pattern) did have the ER included in the code selection in the first track circuit into the platform (so would cut 420/270/120 - no 180 on a first track circuit at a three track circuit platform).
The ER never seems to have been provided on the middle track circuit (at a three track circuit platform, the middle track circuit is the first to have 180).
The ER is always provided on the track circuit immediately in the rear of the station starter (last track circuit at a three track circuit platform 120/180/420). The ER is provided on some (but not all) track circuit code selections for a train length out of the station. Again, as Tom suggests, losing a code on one such track circuit would make that track appear occupied, and this would impact other track circuits.
Give me a bit and I'll put up some pics.
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Post by sweetp on Apr 30, 2021 12:41:47 GMT
Resulting in the cost savings involved in NOT converting already-compatible stock to something else, then ordering a back-compatible version of it! There would still be conversion work required for things like moving the compressor from the no-longer-required trailer vehicle to one of the DMs, and converting from 4th rail to 3rd rail, as uncoverted D-stock can't return via the running rails.
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Post by sweetp on Oct 9, 2020 0:52:52 GMT
I am sure that battery trains were trialled here in the UK over 100 years ago - albeit without success. Indeed, you could go back 178 years to Robert Davidson's demonstration of his "Galvani" battery loco between Edinburgh and Glasgow
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Post by sweetp on Mar 26, 2020 22:28:22 GMT
Good morning, Small update, I've paused on the cab until I can gain some more reference pictures, again, please, if anyone is able to get some pictures of inside the cab (pretty much all angles), I'd very much appreciate it Many thanks, Reece Don't know if theses are any use, but I took half a dozen 1992 stock cab photos during an official tour of Wood Lane depot in June 2003. They don't cover everything, and the resolution of digital cameras was not as good then, but the photos at the bottom of this gallery might be of some use:
Regards,
Paul
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Post by sweetp on Mar 26, 2020 22:06:51 GMT
This loss is very, very sad news. Such a knowledgeable man, as demonstrated in his underground line books, but especially in his research papers. Indeed, without the compilation of history and detail in his research paper "Automatic Junction Working and the Programme Machine", I would never have contemplated starting work on the simulator. Always really enjoyed having technical chats with him, and I still owe him a pint Rest in peace, Mike.
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Post by sweetp on Jun 17, 2019 13:57:42 GMT
Museum Of Science and Industry, in Manchester. I'd have to agree.
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Post by sweetp on Mar 31, 2019 11:49:40 GMT
A quick update.
I've been building a display system to allow the various screens for a chosen IMR to be displayed simultanously. Here's Seven Sisters with the Frame and its diagram w/ATO, and a screen for each of the five programme machines, and the PM diagram: (Apologies for the poor photo, but you get the idea at this stage)
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Post by sweetp on Mar 9, 2019 1:13:53 GMT
Oh, thanks for that. I didn't know the extension was his also project.
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Post by sweetp on Mar 8, 2019 17:50:31 GMT
I'm proud of the simulator but, quite frankly, I'm standing on the shoulders of giants. The engineering that went into the original line to support ATO is astounding. Layer upon layer of automation on top of the trusted lever-frame was a truly incredible feat of engineering that I really don't think is fully appreciated in these days of the microprocessor. Even armed with all the answers (i.e the bookwiring), and with powerful computers to hand, I have found this a very challenging project. Goodness only knows how Dell and his team managed to work all this out on paper - some very, very clever people, and with management who were prepared to invest in such a bold scheme. Earls Court, though, umm, maybe not! Programme Machines, Auto-reversing sites, ATO and then linking it to the original equipment is probably me done! And I still reckon I have a good few working months of soldering to go!
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Post by sweetp on Mar 8, 2019 16:44:02 GMT
Whilst not prototypical, I've temporarily added all the northbound ATO code lamps to help prove whether I've got this correct now. Note: These are *not* vertically aligned with the track occupation indications due to space limitations!
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Post by sweetp on Mar 8, 2019 16:41:57 GMT
I’m pretty sure this level of detail wouldn’t be available anywhere and am astounded how it’s progressed. Just one of the reasons I think this forum is amazeballs! I'm very lucky to have had the support of a number of people who've believed in what was, frankly, a bonkers project to even attempt!
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Post by sweetp on Mar 8, 2019 14:58:21 GMT
3) Finsbury Park - you were pretty much spot-on:
a) Logic inverted in 5L meant lock lifted early allowing Lever 5 to Normalise resulting in 443E and 443D going code 120 under the train. Was not an issue in auto mode as Lever 5 is permanently reversed
b) i) Typo in 4ALR logic referencing 1004_GR (Relay for Lunar white VK4 signal) meaning that 439E, 441B and 441A would never select ATO code 270, so a stopped train could never auto-restart from those tracks, nor could it run up to 443 headway post. However, in Auto, with no train in NB platform (i.e. evenly spaced service), trains would always receive 420 and run through fine. This also stopped the Route Call to VK4 being cancelled in manual after the passage of a train. ii) 441A code selection circuits had a reference to Lever 4 (R) instead of (RB) lever band, which caused a 120 code the moment lever 4 moved from Reverse towards mid. In auto, this lever is permanently reversed so the issue is not normally visible.
Thank you for your great sleuthing that pointed me directly to the issue. No mean feat when you're faced with my spreadsheet! I've live-patched the simulator (I believe!), so it should run correctly now, but it won't be updated in the spreadsheet until I do another complete export. Do keep me posted!
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Post by sweetp on Mar 7, 2019 23:28:04 GMT
Yes 1) is a balancing act delivering a self-running display that may also be fully-demonstrated. I'm also not from a railway background, so I'm on a steep learning curve, so things I hadn't even considered often appear unexpectedly! I have departure times for IMRs as I'm working from the Programme Machine files, but I suspect it might be possible to interpolate intermediate station departure times from these (or the inter-IMR time differences), and this might be a reasonable solution to cover both peak and off-peak...? Unsupervised running is important, but so will an automated reset if the desks aren't used for a period of time. Still much work to be done!
2) You may have a point regarding No Code on WN if either direction Emergency Relays are activated. (Do you recall the ATO code for WN at the time, as I did have a problem where the communication from simulator to the web-updater froze and I restarted it after about 5 minutes - all trains would have frozen). I have yet to make available the train status page via a web interface. This shows each train's number, speed, leading car track circuit, ATO code and brake spot(if any) and rate, and also helps see the scale of any issue.
3) Finsbury Park. I think you're on to something there; that's clearly not right. I need to get the bookwirings out to compare. Quite probably a transcoding error. More on this once I've had a look. Thank you for reporting this!
Thank you again for your time and very valuable information.
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Post by sweetp on Mar 7, 2019 1:50:15 GMT
Today marks the 50th anniversary of the official opening of the line by Her Majesty Queen Elizabeth II. There is more than enough footage online of the opening of the ceremony itself, with Her Majesty starting a train at Green Park and riding to Victoria, so I thought I would share something different from our collection. Henry George Follenfant was London Transport's chief civil engineer at the time. On the same date, he was presented with a case of 12 coasters from his staff, each of which had the official photograph of the tiling for one of the 12 stations along the line:
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Post by sweetp on Mar 7, 2019 1:30:36 GMT
Thank you very much for your feedback. You raise some good points.
1) The dwell times have a minimum randomised duration at non-IMR sites and, currently, do leave early so that they do not arrive late at the next IMR site. This does mean that they are somewhat prone to bunching on approach to an IMR site, and therefore sometimes request permission from the logic to proceed early. This is currently prevented by all sites running in NOOT (No out-of-turn), as there is usually no human around to manually prevent the logic granting this permission (as per design of each site/PM). If I attempt to increased the average dwell time any further, it leads to the occasional train arriving late - Basically I really need to set minimum dwell time on a per-platform basis, but I haven't written this piece of code yet!
2) Interesting. I don't suppose you happen know what time that was, approximately (both GMT and simulator time)? The simulator should run a full day fine, but it is certainly possible things may fall apart (and are then compounded by a lack of manual intervention to fix things in a timely fashion!). Of course, if anyone has put any of the sites into Push-Button/FCFS/PM Only and then manually routed anything, expect the whole thing to fall apart when trains turn up out of order; One cannot renumber trains at the moment, or send extra trains from the depot if they are put away, so trying to put the service back together is very difficult!
There is only one simulator that everyone shares. If it's clear the service is broken, whilst one can try to fix it via the desks, do feel free to just reset it via the 'V' in the bottom right-hand corner.
(Also, if you've worked on this equipment, you likely know more that I do! All the logic is transcoded from the original bookwirings and is available for inspection [See spreadsheet linked on the Home page] as I'm sure I've made the odd typo. This information, along with live state of PM functions, may help identify whay happened at Walthamstow. I'd certainly appreciate any help!)
Thanks again!
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Post by sweetp on Mar 5, 2019 19:14:39 GMT
In the simulator the Programme Machines have full decodes and animations: Whereas at the same time, the lever frame, also animated, looks like this: Anyway, enough for now, lest I bore people.
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Post by sweetp on Mar 5, 2019 18:51:33 GMT
Indeed! For now, the Lever Ops Board and the PMs will stay virtualised (but completely represented) within the simulator whilst the artefacts themselves remain static. Here's our mini-IMR, which some may have seen, with the frame in the middle, Programme Machines to the right, code/spot generators and logic cards to the left: And the Lever Ops board behind:
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Post by sweetp on Mar 5, 2019 14:25:44 GMT
I promised a better picture of the rebuilt Cobourg Street: We also acquired, from Brixton IMR, the V-Frame, Lever Ops board, Programme machines, Diagrams, Time Coincidence unit, Code/Spot generators, Racks of logic, storage and train/TD coincidence units, if people want to see those. They are for long-term restoration, however.
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Post by sweetp on Feb 25, 2019 20:34:42 GMT
I'd really love to, and it is on my todo list. However, I'll have to draw it myself as I don't have the artwork (or the rights, which I think belong outside of LU). There's more detail in the IMR diagrams than on the panel; the PM (KGM) details are all shown in the Lever Frame views.
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Post by sweetp on Feb 25, 2019 20:00:40 GMT
Many apologies for not replying - the simulator had to be decommissioned for a while and other things take priority. It's now back online vicsim.electricrailwaymuseum.co.uk/ (don't forget to Click 'V' in the bottom right and set the timetable to, say 0805, if there are no trains running). Last weekend at Colne Valley Railway we were finally able to put the glass back in the panel, and I had the chance to connect up the finished simulator for the first time. Apart from some lamp issues and some flickering on the Walthamstow Panel, it all seems to work as far as we've soldered (Victoria). (Before we put the glass back in) (Running under the simulator) Still lots of work to do for those who fancy helping with soldering - no signalling experience necessary!
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Post by sweetp on Sept 12, 2018 0:09:49 GMT
The final video I took last year before we closed the museum - Walthamstow to Highbury using South to North reversing (All trains).
- for those who like such things.
By the end of the summer season we were running Walthamstow to Warren Street reversing. The simulator is now complete, with proper reversals at Seven Sisters 62/63 roads and in Northumberland Park as per WTT32 - just soldering to complete....
Bar debugging, I feel this is a pretty accurate electrical/electronic record of London Underground signalling covering the period from post-pure mechanical up until computers arrived.
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Post by sweetp on Sept 3, 2018 12:54:40 GMT
*grin* You can see we've certainly tried:
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Post by sweetp on Sept 3, 2018 9:16:00 GMT
Very good. Is there any way to reproduce the distinctive noise in the IMR's from the oscillators, relays and 7kc racks? Thank you. A few people have suggested there should at least be the sounds of air escaping as pneumatic devices operate...
Difficult thing for me is that I've never been in a functioning IMR (I'm working purely from bookwirings), so I don't actually know the sounds.
The ex-Brixton IMR equipment I've acquired and built into a "mini-IMR" has yet to have any power or air applied, but advice on replicating the sounds in the mean time would be much appreciated! Current work is focused on finishing the soldering of the KGM units on the Cobourg Street diagram.
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Post by sweetp on Sept 2, 2018 14:05:10 GMT
It really should summon Pingu! It's actually "No Out Of Turn". If the train approaching a junction is not the one the Programme Machine expects, this button is used to instruct the Programme Machine to wait for the expected train, rather than allow this train through first. You're quite correct, however - there's a lot of documentation that needs adding to allow folk to operate the simulator. However, button tooltips ought to be simple enough to add. Currently, I've reached the point where the simulator will run a complete day's service under full Programme Machine control (trains run under ATO, unless they are shunting or are on tracks that only support 120/180 codes). Manual intervention, Push Button and FCFS modes, should all work and are pretty well tested, but the documentation is still in the original handbook and training manuals.
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Post by sweetp on Sept 1, 2018 18:12:55 GMT
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Post by sweetp on Sept 1, 2018 18:05:17 GMT
Today, being the 50th anniversary of passenger services, seems a good day to make available online the Victoria Line signalling simulator on which I've been working for some time. I've transcribed the entire bookwiring for the Victoria line into a simulator I've written such that every last relay, lever, ATO code generator, Programme Machine and logic function, is faithfully reproduced and runs as per the original. Trains run autonomously under ATO control, and are displayed on scans of the original IMR diagram masters. Frame levers, Programme Machines (with decodes) and most logic functions are also available for display. The Cobourg Street desk is also available, and offers the same control of the IMRs/PMs that the signalling staff would have had. The busiest area to view is Seven Sisters, with its junction to Northumberland Park depot. It's a work in progress and releasing this publicly will probably show up some stability issues I need to fix! Constructive criticism welcome. The simulator also interfaces with the original control room desk and panels acquired from Cobourg Street, which some may have seen at Electric Railway Museum before we closed. The desk and panels will be recommissioned in the near future at Colne Valley Railway in Essex allowing interactive control of the simulator using the original equipment. vicsim.electricrailwaymuseum.co.uk/Happy 50th Anniversary Victoria Line. Kind regards, Paul
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