Photography Rules chaos

I suppose you could simply ask station staff that cause you hassle to have a look at traffic circular 31, page 25. The document is available on the LUL intranet, so they can quite easily view it if necessary.

I've had supervisors deny permission at Canons Park and West Ruislip.

No reason was given at Canon's Park, but it was clear that the station supervisor was having a bad day (although as the train service was working fine it wasn't immediately apparent why) and I got the impression she just didn't want anyone on her station taking photos. I didn't press the issue and moved on to Queensbury. To date this was my only visit to Canon's Park, so I don't know how representative my experience was.

At West Ruislip, I believe the reason given was something similar to "Security and all that, you know" by a station supervisor who was not prepared to listen to anything I might say regarding conditions of carriage or anything else. I was not in the mood to argue further and simply left the station and went to another (I think this was the time I walked to Ickenham). I have since photographed at West Ruislip without any hassles at all.

I think that, regardless of what LU or TfL management says and regardless of what the official rules say, there will always be some staff who are of a mind to "discourage" photographers. Chris, your attitude is absolutely the right one. Don't argue if they won't listen, try somewhere else and come back another day when you will probably be left alone.

Once again:

Those relevant parties include the film office and director level at LU.

We can only ask that the situation is clarified and then passed down to front line operational staff - which we have done - this hasn't proved easy to get done, especially in an organisastion as large and red tape lined TfL/ LU are.

Have you tried Fulham yet?
I tried to photograph the entrance to the LU station there and was told in no uncertain terms that photography was not permitted for any reason in the shopping centre. The implication was that if I did not desist from photographing (even though the photograph was of LU property only) I would be removed from the building and would have to make my way to a different station to catch the tube.

Indeed, as I understand the law shopping centres (and other privately owned "public" places) can legally choose to prohibit photography as part of their conditions of entry.

The shopping centre at Hammersmith also prohibits photography, although you can take a photo from outside the centre.

I got stopped by the Mets for taking a picture of the outside of Rotherhithe and was spoken to under the terrorism act. The PC looked a bit embarassed when he found my warrant card. Jusrt remember taking pictures in itself does not contravene the terrorism act, whatever others may think.

Fulham? Yes, done it and without incident...

I intend to deal with Hammersmith (D&P) the same way, or might resort to the uniform/hi-vi combo.

www.flickr.com/photos/24772733@N05/2671021794/sizes/l/

Of course being on 'enclosed' premises I didn't produce the camera until the last minute and quickly snatched a couple of shots while the 'coast was clear'.

In other words I acted furtively and 'suspiciously' rather than openly as I would have done in the past.

or.....



You could nick mine - mind you, the angle is a bit naff....

A good alternative is the footbridge north of South Kenton which, despite the 25kv OHLE is uncaged in places.

www.flickr.com/photos/24772733@N05/2451991850/sizes/l/

The only LO station I've had any trouble at is Harringay Green Lanes. I've not photographed at Headstone Lane, but the staff member I saw at Hatch End didn't even comment.

Got off there one day a few months back, and was lamblasted for not touching out... So... back up the stairs, flicked the plastic wallet open, showed it to him, touched out, and sauntered off down the stairs...

He immediately became a Mini Me from Austin Powers...

The person concerned has every right to be very angry about his/her treatment.

IMO its very simple (remember this is my personal opinion and I am not criticising or casting aspersions about others who choose to deal with this differently).

By taking photographs legally (following LU/TfL//BTP etc. etc guidelines), am I doing anything wrong = NO
Will I allow myself to be bullied by the state or railway/security jobsworths = NO
Should I stop taking railway photographs = NO

Its important not to become too militant and therefore create the perfect tinderbox for your arrest (I suspect that if you are surrounded by BTP/Met Police any excuse will do). But remember that although your property can be seized (section 45(2) of the Terrorism Act 2000), photographs cannot be deleted from a DSLR or film destroyed in an old SLR camera unless a court order has been obtained first - otherwise said Police/security are destroying evidence - that in itself IS illegal!

In reality we're only hearing about the absolute worst cases when we read about them in RAIL etc. or on the internet. For the vast majority of railway photographers, incidents are few and far in between, although it has to be said the frequency is increasing

WHAT WOULD YOU DO!?
Ask yourself what you would do if you ran a railway and someone walked onto your system/property to take photographs. You might want to know that they were present and would not put the safety of passenger/staff at risk (blinding them with flash/tripping them up with a tripod). It would seem fair that you would expect to be asked first for permission (there could be circumstances that were reasonable, albeit unlikely, to prevent photography at that time). If permission has been granted by the Station Supervisor, the photographer has some limited protection as they have obtained expressed permission first and their activities were known about.

I have seen too many utter pratts on LU during enthusiast events using flash photography, tripods or who trespass and IMO its these characters who give the genuine railway enthusiast a bad name!!

As I have stated in my advise thread about railway photography (originally stated by District Dave on his original site):
districtdave.proboards39.com/index.cgi?board=selfhelp&action=display&thread=6610


I have also collated in this thread as much information (including links) as I possibly can regarding railway photography on LU and national rail - please let me know if you come across more.

Regards

ChrisW