prjb
Advisor
LU move customers from A to B, they used to do it via 'C'.
Posts: 1,840
|
Post by prjb on Aug 7, 2006 21:14:10 GMT
how far is the prototype construction going? have they started the static testing? The first four cars of the first pre-series train are on the test track at Derby and the entire eight car is expected in London before the end of the year. There is a link to a photo of it somewhere on the forum.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Aug 7, 2006 21:14:27 GMT
From what Met Svc Op has said it seems like these people are using a bit of artistic license, which is clearly wrong. Oh and the trains are wider inside but actually narrower on the outside and lower than the present stock on the vic line! Apparently. He seemed to tame himself down when i said i worked for LU! The first four cars of the first pre-series train are on the test track at Derby and the entire eight car is expected in London before the end of the year. There is a link to a photo of it somewhere on the forum. Click here!
|
|
prjb
Advisor
LU move customers from A to B, they used to do it via 'C'.
Posts: 1,840
|
Post by prjb on Aug 7, 2006 21:16:17 GMT
From what Met Svc Op has said it seems like these people are using a bit of artistic license, which is clearly wrong. Oh and the trains are wider inside but actually narrower on the outside and lower than the present stock on the vic line! Apparently. He seemed to tame himself down when i said i worked for LU! Please tell me your kidding? It sounds like they were showing you the Tardis! ;D
|
|
|
Post by CSLR on Aug 7, 2006 21:51:48 GMT
We do now have to take into account things such as human factors which includes seat design, but I don't think that these seats will cure your bad back if you ride on the Vic! I should hope not. I can see the television ad now, "Are you suffering from a bad back as a result of having it forced into an 'improving' posture while riding on the Tube? Call the Claim Cowboys today..."
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Aug 8, 2006 2:00:45 GMT
Just out of curiosity, when is the first test train likely to be released into traffic for non-passenger dynamic testing?
|
|
Ben
fotopic... whats that?
Posts: 4,282
|
Post by Ben on Aug 8, 2006 2:27:30 GMT
I havent seen it yet, but someone pleeease tell me that the stock will get comfortable seats. The average journey time on the vic may be 11 mins, but after walking down a long escalator and several passages and then waiting 5 mins for a train, something comfortable to sit on would be nice, and surely isnt too much to expect considering the amount of money that TfL is saying is being invested in the system?
|
|
|
Post by CSLR on Aug 8, 2006 3:34:44 GMT
after walking down a long escalator and several passages and then waiting 5 mins for a train, something comfortable to sit on would be nice Maybe the fact that they are not is part of the strategy. After all, if you know that the seats are uncomfortable, you will not get so annoyed when you discover that you have to stand because there are none available to sit on anyway.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Aug 8, 2006 16:17:06 GMT
Please tell me your kidding? It sounds like they were showing you the Tardis! ;D Deadly serious mate!
|
|
prjb
Advisor
LU move customers from A to B, they used to do it via 'C'.
Posts: 1,840
|
Post by prjb on Aug 8, 2006 22:08:52 GMT
We do now have to take into account things such as human factors which includes seat design, but I don't think that these seats will cure your bad back if you ride on the Vic! I should hope not. I can see the television ad now, "Are you suffering from a bad back as a result of having it forced into an 'improving' posture while riding on the Tube? Call the Claim Cowboys today..." Yes, just kidding! ;D
|
|
prjb
Advisor
LU move customers from A to B, they used to do it via 'C'.
Posts: 1,840
|
Post by prjb on Aug 8, 2006 22:11:33 GMT
Just out of curiosity, when is the first test train likely to be released into traffic for non-passenger dynamic testing? I believe that the first pre-series will be in London for engineering hours testing by November this year. Actual test runs during traffic will be a long way off into next year. I'll let you know when they are going to commence traffic hours testing well in advance for those photo opportunities!
|
|
prjb
Advisor
LU move customers from A to B, they used to do it via 'C'.
Posts: 1,840
|
Post by prjb on Aug 8, 2006 22:14:04 GMT
I havent seen it yet, but someone pleeease tell me that the stock will get comfortable seats. The average journey time on the vic may be 11 mins, but after walking down a long escalator and several passages and then waiting 5 mins for a train, something comfortable to sit on would be nice, and surely isnt too much to expect considering the amount of money that TfL is saying is being invested in the system? Now that the CAT has been completed any adverse comments on the seating will need to be addressed. I personally like a hard seat and found them to be perfectly ok, but thats just me. To be honest, I am not a fan of the universally popular 'A' stock springy seats so maybe I'm not the best judge.
|
|
|
Post by william on Aug 9, 2006 8:32:27 GMT
Of course in the past it was 1972 Stock Mk 1 and 1972 Stock Mk 11..did we ever say 'ts' back then? Or was it 1972 Mk 1 Stock and 1972 Mk 11 Stock? I am sure it was thw latter now. Different builds, different production periods. Oracle is correct is was the latter.
|
|
Oracle
In memoriam
RIP 2012
Writing is such sweet sorrow: like heck it is!
Posts: 3,234
|
Post by Oracle on Aug 9, 2006 8:55:20 GMT
1972 Mark I and 1972 Mark II Stock, to correct myself, not of course Mark 2.
|
|
|
Post by tubeprune on Aug 9, 2006 10:18:56 GMT
Now that the CAT has been completed any adverse comments on the seating will need to be addressed. I personally like a hard seat and found them to be perfectly ok, but thats just me. To be honest, I am not a fan of the universally popular 'A' stock springy seats so maybe I'm not the best judge. Could someone tell me what "CAT" is? I thought it was a rodent control operative, formerly employed by railways (including LU) to maintain a tolerable mouse population around station messrooms. There used to be an allowance in the station accounts of 3 shillings and 7pence halfpenny to feed it. Mind you, the one at Uxbridge was lazy and fat and used to get fed tidbits by the night crews. I never saw it catch a mouse.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Aug 9, 2006 11:50:53 GMT
Customer Acceptance Testing.
There is CAD which is Computer aided design.
I think CAT can be Computer aided Testing. Not sure though.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Aug 10, 2006 7:33:07 GMT
I think the 'S' stock seats should be a compromise. Not so bouncy as the 'A' stock but not bum numb-ers like the 92 stock. The 73 stock is about ideal. 72 stock are comfy too. 96ts seats are good too.......
|
|
|
Post by CSLR on Aug 10, 2006 7:57:40 GMT
OK, let us summarise some of the things that have been said here and in other threads regarding the design of future tube stock. To keep everyone happy, a solution might be to have a firm base and back to the seating, but with slightly softer cushions. The back rest should be higher in order to improve posture. Seats should be longitudinal to allow for extra standing space. To comply with perceived safety requirements, the windows in the passenger areas should not open. With higher seat backs, there is an option to reduce the size of the windows. This would have the additional bonuses of providing a smaller area for 'etching artists' to attack, while making it easier to replace windows and reduce the cost of replacement glass. It may have taken us some time to complete the circle, but we have finally arrived back at the exact design for the interior of the original tube stock of 1890.
|
|
|
Post by william on Aug 10, 2006 8:10:21 GMT
It may have taken us some time to complete the circle, but we have finally arrived back at the exact design for the interior of the original tube stock of 1890. Nice one CSLR ;D
|
|
Oracle
In memoriam
RIP 2012
Writing is such sweet sorrow: like heck it is!
Posts: 3,234
|
Post by Oracle on Aug 10, 2006 9:10:04 GMT
Convergent Evolution as I said before!
|
|
|
Post by markextube on Aug 15, 2006 17:31:19 GMT
I haven't yet seen the mock up at Euston but from i see from the pictures the end result will look good.
Though there are two questions...
From the photograph the seating looks very much of the design of the 92's. I assume the same mistake won't be made again as this is a well known botch up!
And secondly. The car looks spacious and bright. Though the panel for wheelchairs to rest against does seem to cut the clear walk through view in half and does look like a chunk of boared.
I understand something has to be there and something to keep unruly children and yobs from climbing or sitting on it.
I thought of a curved up horizontal bar connecting the grab pole to the window sill, curved to stop anybody sitting on it. And supported underneath by two or possible three vertical poles connecting the floor to the underneath of the curved horizontal pole. These to be all the same colour as the remaining grab poles.
This would create a safe barrier and still keep the feeling of space in that area when not in use.
|
|
prjb
Advisor
LU move customers from A to B, they used to do it via 'C'.
Posts: 1,840
|
Post by prjb on Aug 19, 2006 0:23:09 GMT
CAT is indeed Customer Acceptance Testing. I have posted the full meaning on the forum before reverting to the abbreviation, but I apologise for any confusion. For the record, I always got on very well with the cat at Farringdon and apparently he was a choosey character!
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Aug 19, 2006 7:29:22 GMT
From the photograph the seating looks very much of the design of the 92's. I assume the same mistake won't be made again as this is a well known botch up! In what way are you calling it a "botch up"? The seats are just less padded than other tube seats, but I wouldn't describe it as you did. Given that many metros use hard plastic seats on new trains, you shouldn't really be complaining. Take a look at NYC's new stock seating here (link to nycsubway.org).... www.nycsubway.org/perl/show?52535....and then stop moaning just because the 92TS and 09TS seats may not resemble a bouncy castle.
|
|
|
Post by trainopd78 on Aug 19, 2006 16:46:41 GMT
From the photograph the seating looks very much of the design of the 92's. I assume the same mistake won't be made again as this is a well known botch up! In what way are you calling it a "botch up"? The seats are just less padded than other tube seats, but I wouldn't describe it as you did. Given that many metros use hard plastic seats on new trains, you shouldn't really be complaining. Take a look at NYC's new stock seating here (link to nycsubway.org).... www.nycsubway.org/perl/show?52535....and then stop moaning just because the 92TS and 09TS seats may not resemble a bouncy castle. So they're not quite up to UK standards when it comes to disability awareness then?
|
|
prjb
Advisor
LU move customers from A to B, they used to do it via 'C'.
Posts: 1,840
|
Post by prjb on Aug 19, 2006 19:59:52 GMT
As per usual, I'm with stephenk on this one! I think the whole issue of seats is subjective anyway, some like them soft whilst others like them hard. You can't please everyone, I think the 09ts seats are quite comfortable myself, but I accept others may have a differing opinion.
|
|
Chris M
Global Moderator
Forum Quizmaster
Always happy to receive quiz ideas and pictures by email or PM
Posts: 19,443
|
Post by Chris M on Aug 19, 2006 20:36:13 GMT
The fixed seats on the mockup were neither the best nor the worst I've sat on. The backrests for the tip-up seats left much to be desired though.
|
|
prjb
Advisor
LU move customers from A to B, they used to do it via 'C'.
Posts: 1,840
|
Post by prjb on Aug 19, 2006 22:28:18 GMT
The fixed seats on the mockup were neither the best nor the worst I've sat on. The backrests for the tip-up seats left much to be desired though. I smile because this is a comment that was made, by various members of the LU System Upgrades team, before the mock-up was opened to staff viewing. It has been noted. You may rest assured that this particular feature will not be carried over on to 'S' Stock!
|
|
Ben
fotopic... whats that?
Posts: 4,282
|
Post by Ben on Aug 20, 2006 13:12:02 GMT
From the photograph the seating looks very much of the design of the 92's. I assume the same mistake won't be made again as this is a well known botch up! Take a look at NYC's new stock seating here (link to nycsubway.org).... www.nycsubway.org/perl/show?52535....and then stop moaning just because the 92TS and 09TS seats may not resemble a bouncy castle. A very fair point; then again I didnt think that New Yorkers were paying the equivilant of just under $6.00 to get a paper ticket to travel one stop
|
|
Chris M
Global Moderator
Forum Quizmaster
Always happy to receive quiz ideas and pictures by email or PM
Posts: 19,443
|
Post by Chris M on Aug 20, 2006 14:47:45 GMT
From what I can see a basic walkup paper ticket equivalent fare is $2, with Oyster-equivalents costing less, for any subway journey. $2 is today worth just over £1.06
|
|
|
Post by compsci on Aug 21, 2006 2:44:07 GMT
The fare is always theoretically $2 unless you get a daily/weekly/monthly Metrocard. However cash Metrocard refills of $10 or more earn a 20% bonus. Paper tickets like Metrocards have replaced tokens for single journeys, but the only excuse I've heard for not buying at least a $4 Metrocard (return trip) is having such a bad memory that you can't remember where you put it. (A colleague really has used this as an excuse when I pointed out how many trees and dollars he is wasting).
Regarding disability issues, there are large tip up seats (rather heavy as they're plastic) at the cab ends of new stock (almost certainly including that in the photo) accommodate wheelchairs. Lifts have been installed at most of the easy locations, but things are seriously complicated by almost every through station having no cross passage and no surface buildings at all.
|
|
|
Post by markextube on Aug 21, 2006 11:45:45 GMT
(stephenk) wrote: In what way are you calling it a "botch up"? The seats are just less padded than other tube seats, but I wouldn't describe it as you did. Given that many metros use hard plastic seats on new trains, you shouldn't really be complaining.
Firstly yes the 92's seats are a botch up (uncomfortable in simple English) as everybody knows who has used the central line over the years. Plus there have been many threads of comments regarding the 92's seats.
Secondly i merely commented from looking at the picture, as i haven't been to see the mock up that the 09 mock up seats look like the seats of the 92's. All this clearly stated in my question.This is a visual comment and not moaning as you interpreted. This is a discussion forum hey.
So I'd appreciate a sensible reply of those who have tested out the mock up rather than silly comments.
Oh and i don't really care what the seats are made of on other systems around the world. As made clear by many on here the seats on lul stocks have always been a concern and are part of our heritage so enough of the irrelevant comments just for the sake of having the last word.
Now back to the 09 stock..
|
|