ATO gets a step nearer

Was looking at the Jubilee Line upgrade "blurb" on the intranet tonight,when the TBTC system is commissioned,it will be 30tph peak service,24tph at all other times.BTW,it also said the line will operate on ATP before the TBTC is fully commissioned.

Considering the shambles that has accompanied service upgrades of this type on LU in the past, maybe the management are being conservative and introducing a 30tph service to make sure that the line can actually run that.

Once the service has been running for a while and the signalling is less likely to break down, then maybe they'll ramp it up to 33tph.

Not anymore - Alstom has at least 63 trains to choose from now, and IIRC they only need about 45-50 to run the current peak service of 24tph. towerman will probably pop up and tell us what the fleet diagrams are, and what they may be with a peak service of 30tph.

There should be enough trains once ATO is in full operation. The faster run times under the new signalling mean that the tph can be increased with the same number of trains. Plus as mentioned above there are plenty of spare trains at the moment.

What can make a difference though, is if more trains are timetabled to run end to end, instead of turning short, then lines can see their capacity limited by train availablity. This seems to have happened on the Central Line, where Liverpool St reversers are a now thing of the past for various reasons.

Because you lower line capacity by performing a reversal-in-sidings maneuver on the core trunk of a busy line like the Central, mainly due to LU's inability to perform a rapid tipping-out and the slow approach speeds into most of the sidings on the network.

When stephenk shows up he will probably explain far better than I can.

As ZEDex and OneKEA have mentioned, LUs tipping out procedure is a tad slow, usually taking over 1 minute even with 2-3 staff. This would cause blocking back on a 30tph service. Trains have to be checked when tipping out due to HSE/HMRI (or whatever the railway inspectorate is called this week) rules. This is after a death at Liverpool Street, when someone fell between the cars whilst walking between carriages as train went into the sidings at Liverpool Street. The railway inspectorate though forgot that people can fall between cars whilst the train is on normal running lines as well - so why don't they ban passengers on normal running lines too?

The other reason for not timetabling Liverpool Street reversers is that the section of line to Stratford is one of the busiest parts of the underground, and thus now needs all the trains it can get!

Interestingly, on the NYC subway where there are similar tipping out rules (i.e at sidings, but not for non-passenger loops), they now play a recorded announcement before and whilst a train negociates a non-passenger loop to tell anyone left onboard that the next stop is the departure platform, and that they must stay seated and not walk between cars.

Several times now when heading out to Debden it has been South Woodford before I've got a seat.

thanks for the answers!

although, as stephenk mentioned, how does banning passengers from being on board within a siding help anything?

the person killed in the liverpool st accident could have done the exact same thing in passenger service?

The reasons why passengers can't be carried past shunt signals was explained after a question I asked a long time ago. I can't find it immediately, but it might have been in a thread related to Rayners Lane. I'll have another quick look, but if I can't find it Colin will probably work his magic.

The thread in question is: districtdave.proboards39.com/index.cgi?board=Signals&action=display&thread=1126342234 from September 2005!
I'm not certain, but I think the "thread on the Piccadilly board" referred to in that thread might be districtdave.proboards39.com/index.cgi?board=picc&action=display&thread=1123366277

cheers for the info guys!

As of Monday Tubelines contractors have taken possession of 9 to 11 roads in the yard to construct a temporary shed for the installation of TBTC equipment on the 96TS as it was taking up too much room in the maintenance shed and Alstom said they couldn't get their work done.Wonder who's paying for it as it also involves moving the deicing filling tanks and pumps from 10 & 11 roads to 15 & 16 roads,bet it wont be cheap.

There's only 3 roads on this current section so it doesn't give capacity problems stabling the service.

028-027 now stopped for ATO mods.