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Post by Deleted on Dec 17, 2007 2:37:37 GMT
(The A-stock on the other hand seemed to have had it's time - I take the reduction from 70 to 50mph due to bogie cracking as a sign of life expirement). Or cost cutting and an effort to eke as much time out of them as possible, prior to their replacement. |
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Post by Deleted on Dec 17, 2007 2:43:38 GMT
IMO The S stock will be a pile of S***e! S doesn't stand for Space or Sub-surface it stands for S....!! Without sounding blunt, that comment is a bit premature! Nobody knows what the S or 09 stocks will be like yet. I suggest you hold back until these trains have started running in passenger service before you decide what they are like. |
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Post by Deleted on Dec 17, 2007 2:47:10 GMT
I will certainly miss the A stock-they are the best trains in the world!!! I drove the A stock for a couple of years and the cabs are leaky, uncomfortable, draughty and unreliable. I certainly don't share your opinions on them. |
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Post by Deleted on Dec 17, 2007 9:02:09 GMT
IMO The S stock will be a pile of S***e! S doesn't stand for Space or Sub-surface it stands for S....! Yet another pointless and unjustified comment, which sadly seem to be multiplying on this forum recently.  |
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metman
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Post by metman on Dec 17, 2007 10:19:25 GMT
Well of course everyone can have an opinion, that's the great thing about this country. However, I am not hopeful about the new arrivals. You have to understand, as a Met user things are very different to the Distirct line say. The trains should reflect that. Levels of comfort are diminishing as newer stock arrives, so frankly I don't expect much from newer stock. The 92ts is falling apart, what will the 95/96ts be like in 5 years time?
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Post by Deleted on Dec 17, 2007 10:20:55 GMT
IMO The S stock will be a pile of S***e! S doesn't stand for Space or Sub-surface it stands for S....! They are just starting from where they left off last - with the R stock! |
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Post by Deleted on Dec 17, 2007 13:15:57 GMT
IMO The S stock will be a pile of S***e!quote] I agree with you there |
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Post by Deleted on Dec 17, 2007 20:11:26 GMT
I assume that the main bone of contention is to do with seating layout and the perceived comfort of bouncy sprung seats. Interestingly a recent trial (not CAT testing) with 3 levels of cushioning concluded that the medium seat (not too hard, not too soft, just right said little red riding hood) was judged to be the most comfortable. Sprung seats are not great - when I was a DMT, I lost count of the number of instances of customers alleging that the springs had gone through the seats and tore their clothing. I think there are some fire reg implications too. As for layout, the 3+2 transverse seating is great if everyone has a seat, but not so good where demand outstrips supply in the peak hours. On the plus side, there will be saloon air-con, CCTV, PEA Talkback, internal and external destination displays, through gangways, air suspension etc etc. so it's not all bad  AIUI there will be CAT (Customer Acceptance Testing) taking place in the new year with a full scale mock up car - get down there and have your say! Just my twopenceworth ttr |
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Post by william on Dec 17, 2007 20:58:54 GMT
I assume that the main bone of contention is to do with seating layout and the perceived comfort of bouncy sprung seats. Interestingly a recent trial (not CAT testing) with 3 levels of cushioning concluded that the medium seat (not too hard, not too soft, just right said little red riding hood) was judged to be the most comfortable. Sprung seats are not great - when I was a DMT, I lost count of the number of instances of customers alleging that the springs had gone through the seats and tore their clothing. I think there are some fire reg implications too. As for layout, the 3+2 transverse seating is great if everyone has a seat, but not so good where demand outstrips supply in the peak hours. On the plus side, there will be saloon air-con, CCTV, PEA Talkback, internal and external destination displays, through gangways, air suspension etc etc. so it's not all bad AIUI there will be CAT (Customer Acceptance Testing) taking place in the new year with a full scale mock up car - get down there and have your say! Just my twopenceworth ttr Today’s commuters (customers) don’t care that much about seat layouts, upholstery or how the train looks as long as it’s safe and fit for purpose. I strongly suspect the thread starter was speaking as an enthusiast who views trains from a different viewpoint. |
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Post by Deleted on Dec 17, 2007 22:10:04 GMT
I assume that the main bone of contention is to do with seating layout and the perceived comfort of bouncy sprung seats. Interestingly a recent trial (not CAT testing) with 3 levels of cushioning concluded that the medium seat (not too hard, not too soft, just right said little red riding hood) was judged to be the most comfortable. Sprung seats are not great - when I was a DMT, I lost count of the number of instances of customers alleging that the springs had gone through the seats and tore their clothing. I think there are some fire reg implications too. As for layout, the 3+2 transverse seating is great if everyone has a seat, but not so good where demand outstrips supply in the peak hours. On the plus side, there will be saloon air-con, CCTV, PEA Talkback, internal and external destination displays, through gangways, air suspension etc etc. so it's not all bad AIUI there will be CAT (Customer Acceptance Testing) taking place in the new year with a full scale mock up car - get down there and have your say! Just my twopenceworth ttr Today’s commuters (customers) don’t care that much about seat layouts, upholstery or how the train looks as long as it’s safe and fit for purpose. I strongly suspect the thread starter was speaking as an enthusiast who views trains from a different viewpoint. Fair point. I was responding specifically to metman's comment that he was a met user (commuter / customer / passenger) and about his views on seat comfort. From a pure nostalgia point of view, I will miss all of the 'older' stocks. They have a character that the newer plastic generation can't match and they undoubtedly have their place in LU history. However, they are of their time and are not very compatible with the modern world. I have worked some of the older stocks in all the train grades from guard upwards and concur with Jim's view that they were often draughty / leaky / unreliable / uncomfortable. Off topic....I'll never forget bringing a 59 out of Edgware at 0500 on a January morning with no heaters and frozen doors (not to mention a frozen guard  ). It seemed colder on the inside than it was outside and when we went into the pipe at Golders, all the windows steamed up! ttr |
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metman
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Post by metman on Dec 17, 2007 23:25:30 GMT
I used to commute most mornings into central London and enjoyed my seat! I think todays commuters do care about seat layouts-especially if they don't get a seat!! To stand for an hour each way and do a days work is soul destroying!
The 3+2 seating has to go! The new trains will be too narrow and frankly the seats are a little small for modern people! However, nobody has yet to explain why 2+2 seating was not included on the S8. My plan was to replace the two sets 7 long seats with 8 transverse seats and thus have 32 transverse seats in the middle of the car. The 2 sets of seats next to the car divide/cab would remain as non transverse but be tip-up. This would provide a decent area to stand in (along with the inter-connecting corridors) during busy periods. Oh course the manditory wheelchair sections would remain. I explained this idea to someone at Bombardier and they liked the idea but said LU were 'being silly' about it.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 18, 2007 3:18:05 GMT
Sprung seats are not great - when I was a DMT, I lost count of the number of instances of customers alleging that the springs had gone through the seats and tore their clothing. Springs wouldn't poke through nowadays anyway as there is a wire mesh between the filling and covering to prevent syringes poking through. |
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Post by Tubeboy on Dec 18, 2007 3:39:44 GMT
Sprung seats are not great - when I was a DMT, I lost count of the number of instances of customers alleging that the springs had gone through the seats and tore their clothing. Springs wouldn't poke through nowadays anyway as there is a wire mesh between the filling and covering to prevent syringes poking through. A train was taken out of service at Golders Green last week, due to a spring sticking out of the seat. |
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Post by Deleted on Dec 18, 2007 16:54:16 GMT
the 09's seats have a very small amount of very hard padding that is the only reason why I don't want them the 67ts have very comfortable seating (when you can get one that is) when the 67ts go it might be a bad idea to leave bombardier to look after them you don't want another 1959 stock situation again
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Post by Deleted on Dec 18, 2007 22:22:00 GMT
I'll miss the 1967's ! Just because it was the very first stock I drove by my self ! Having just checked, the first cab I was let loose alone in was 3162 on an empty test train working !! The following day was my first drive of a 67 train in passenger service, was appropriately 3067  My fondest childhood memories were of CO/CP stock and R stock but the noises and bouncing of a speeding 1962 stock were fantastic. Best individual train driven 7100 - lets hope refurb doesn't ruin that one ! Seats have been getting progressively less and less comfortable on buses and trains. R stock had superb seats. However I seem to recollect riding on a CO or CP with horrible hard plastic seats ... or have I dreamt that one !!! I wonder how these seat test results may have varied if the "testers" had been required to sit from Ealing Bdy to Upminster on one  ? rather than a few seconds !!!  |
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Post by william on Dec 19, 2007 8:55:56 GMT
Seats have been getting progressively less and less comfortable on buses and trains. R stock had superb seats. However I seem to recollect riding on a CO or CP with horrible hard plastic seats ... or have I dreamt that one !!! You probably didn’t dream it but were rather unfortunate as only one car of P stock was converted with glass fibre seats as an experiment for the future C stock. |
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Post by tubeprune on Dec 19, 2007 9:56:26 GMT
Seats have been getting progressively less and less comfortable on buses and trains. R stock had superb seats. However I seem to recollect riding on a CO or CP with horrible hard plastic seats ... or have I dreamt that one !!! You didn't dream it. Car 014082 was fitted with plastic transverse seats in 1967 and they lasted until the car was scrapped in 1971. |
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Post by Deleted on Dec 20, 2007 16:01:57 GMT
Hmmm, well I must have dreamt it if it was scrapped in 1971 !!!
It would have had to have hung on towards the end of the stock life for me to recollect it ....though i still seem to :s
Perhaps it was a "race memory" hence the lifetime interest in trains !!!! ;D ;D ;D
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metman
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Post by metman on Dec 20, 2007 20:39:58 GMT
Quite a lot of CO/CP stock was scrapped in the early 70s along with all the Q stock wasn't it. I guess the CO/CP stock only worked on the District Line Wimbleware service and on the mainline, with the R stock and a bit and on the East London Line. How much was left? The C77 arrivals must of all but wiped out the CO/CP stock (bar that needed to supplement the R stock).
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Post by william on Dec 20, 2007 21:01:47 GMT
Quite a lot of CO/CP stock was scrapped in the early 70s along with all the Q stock wasn't it. I guess the CO/CP stock only worked on the District Line Wimbleware service and on the mainline, with the R stock and a bit and on the East London Line. How much was left? The C77 arrivals must of all but wiped out the CO/CP stock (bar that needed to supplement the R stock). The last CO/CP stock operating on the Wimbleware was 29/08/1978 and the last working on the Circle occurred on the previous Sunday. |
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Oracle
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Post by Oracle on Dec 20, 2007 21:36:21 GMT
I was on the last CO/CP stock service train (as well as the tour). It ran in the evening peak to Ealing Bdy and then by special dispensation in service to Common where we were tipped out. That left the R Stock for a short time, and all too quickly the R farewell tour was on us. Wish I could remember the tour itineries!
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Post by william on Dec 21, 2007 9:07:52 GMT
The last of the CO/CP stock was withdrawn from passenger service on the 31st of March 1981. A small number remained as pilot units ferrying new and scrap stock between Ealing Common and Ruislip.
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Post by Alight on Jan 19, 2008 20:26:13 GMT
They are old, tired and deserve retirement to the great depot in the sky! ;D I know they are noisy and everything and their seating used to be dire, but I love em now and it would be sad to see them go but having said that I look forward to the 2009 stock! When transfered to bakerloo line, will the recieve all the brown colourings and everything or will it just be the cheap option and hence a map change ;D? (sorry if this was answered above but I really am no good at spotting things!) |
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metman
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Post by metman on Jan 20, 2008 19:32:47 GMT
The trains hopefully will be transfered. Considering the proposed withdrawral date, I expect the Vic stock to be upgraded to Bakerloo standards. The interiors aren't very different anyway, frankly its just a colour and seat change! As I've said before the main elements will be the equipment changes to the trains. Adding OPO to the fromer crew opertated 72mk1 stock, forming 3 car units out of 4 car units without using a UNDM and removing some of the ATO gear.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 27, 2008 18:35:50 GMT
No, I won't really miss them - though I respect their age and service.
I have always considered 69s and 72s as old and rattly, even when they were not that old. However, I will mourn the day that 73ts vanishes. I have always viewed this as the "upgrade" to the 69/72, where it was smoother, faster and more pleasant, but with the same shape and style. When that goes, we will have lost a true design era, though I think we have them for a time yet!
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Post by william on Jan 27, 2008 18:58:53 GMT
No, I won't really miss them - though I respect their age and service. I have always considered 69s and 72s as old and rattly, even when they were not that old. However, I will mourn the day that 73ts vanishes. I have always viewed this as the "upgrade" to the 69/72, where it was smoother, faster and more pleasant, but with the same shape and style. When that goes, we will have lost a true design era, though I think we have them for a time yet! Please can you elaborate on the description of this so called 1969 tube stock please. |
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metman
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Post by metman on Jan 27, 2008 19:09:12 GMT
Maybe its C stock that got into the tube tunnels by mistake?
Jokes aside-I agree, the 73ts was the finished article re the warped windscreens, although I really like the 67/72ts too. I find the 73s a little quiet PCM wise!
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Post by Ben on Jan 27, 2008 22:30:37 GMT
The doors sound completely different too. The 67/72s sound rather like the A stock.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 27, 2008 22:51:52 GMT
Bah Humbug. I was remembering the 1959's while writing that. A thousand apologies.
At the risk of going off topic, I have noticed that the '73 doors seem far more "controlled" when shutting, compared the 67/72 doors. Is it a different technical design?
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Post by edwin on Jan 28, 2008 0:22:48 GMT
I've noticed that too, they don't rattle about half as much.
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). It seemed colder on the inside than it was outside and when we went into the pipe at Golders, all the windows steamed up!
? rather than a few seconds 
