Testing of 09TS

From the shape of the controller, the deadman function is probably based on rotating the controller handle 90 degrees like a D stock and the thumb button serves some other function.

Could be button on the TBC be the new vigilance button?

Ahh, but thats NR drivers for yer! We are a completely different breed!

The photo's which I could see looked an improvement on 67TS but there were quite a few which I could not access what about the ones which you need a password for Subwayrail how can I access.

If you re read my post you will see that i did not say that the button will be used as the vigilence. So before you come all guns blaring at me, get yer facts right first!

I know you didn't, which is why I said 'if it is going to be used used as a deadman'.

There is no suggestion I got my facts wrong - you misinterpreted what I was saying.

I still hope you don't have to hold it on for any prolonged periods of time.

Imagine getting a PEA 9 cars of Seven Sisters SB and having to hold it in all the way to Finsbury Park...

TP, the button is hard wired so that in the event of a MITRAC failure the driver can still display 'NOT IN SERVICE' and run to depot.

I believe it is considered better because your response time is improved as your thumb will already be in position. Also, from a Human Factors point of view, this is the natural place for your thumb to rest. The footpedal on current stock is an add on/after thought and was not designed in or subjected to Human Factors assessments.

I'm not sure if that's an improvement or not ..... but I don't like the existing BOD on a D stock ! It's position on a D stock is right where you would naturally rest your left foot, so either you have to sit in an awkward position, or you sit with the BOD continually depressed (which sort of defeats the point of having it), either leading to some discomfort in the left foot or leg !

Also the 1967 stock presently has a hand operated (and illuminating) BOD on the cab off side as well as a conventional one. The BOD on 1967's were only wired in about three years ago, there remains an inherrant problem, that operation of the Pass Alarm on a moving (Vic Line) train applies the brakes, the BOD overrides this, however if the driver does not override it quickly enough the train will drop out of ATO, this means the driver will have to drive manually to the next station to deal with the emergency, that causes much delay in response as the train is now restricted to 22mph and can proceed on green aspects only, not white ones. One assumes the powers that be decided not stopping a train promptly in a station represented a greater risk than responding quickly to an emergency between stations.

Personally I don't see the merit in holding any switch down continually ...whats the point of that ? Not like one will forget that the deafening howl from the sqawk box is a passenger alarm ! A simply push button acknowledge or a (tagged) rotary switch within the drivers reach seems more suitable !

(Trying to use talk back facility, activate the auto announcer, call the controller, watch for signals, check ones speed, drive the train and stop on the mark is quiet enough to be doing without also remembering to and keeping the BOD depressed !)

I would say that having a train automatically brake whilst still in station limits when a handle is pulled, is certainly more desirable..........what if someone on the platform has gone under your train? It's happened at both Cannon Street & Acton Town in recent years (though admittedly in the case of the latter, no one on the train saw it happen).

In the case of C stocks, there can be several reasons for a passenger alarm sounding............and many of the possible reasons mean that having the train come to a stand is actually useful for defect handling purposes. I am aware that some lines advocate automatically continuing to the the next station, whereas others say "assist the train to stop & establish that you genuinely have a handle down before continuing to the next station".

On that basis, what you did on the Vic is not necessarily what you should do on another line.

As for the BOD (Brake override device) - well the clues in the title really.

I like your suggestion of a sealed rotary switch - but given that the current versions of the BOD have to be re-stroked to get a response (therefore meaning you can rest your foot on it all day long and it will have no effect when a handle is pulled), I suppose the current versions would be seen as much more 'tamper proof'.

Oh dear ...........

It's not just BTUK that have improved, MRSSL have employed one of the countries leading cab ergonomists, and whilst they are primarily dealing with 'S' they have been asked to assist retrospectively with the 09 cab design. Not forgetting that LU also have their own HF standard and HF experts too.

I am sure that it has been discussed previously, but do I take it that the 09TS is bigger than the 1967 Stock (as was) to take advantage of the Victoria Line loading gauge/envelope? Further, that as the stock would not be cascaded (or need to run to Acton) there was no reason to make it fit the Picc as it were?