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Post by johnlinford on May 11, 2023 6:41:19 GMT
Elizabeth Line and I believe Thameslink are built to more modern tunnel standards with evacuation walkways.
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Post by d7666 on May 11, 2023 9:20:36 GMT
Elizabeth Line and I believe Thameslink are built to more modern tunnel standards with evacuation walkways. Thameslink no it is not rebuilt it is the Victorian build still It is however double track and the train escape rules are differernt to those of single bore tunnels.
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Chris M
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Post by Chris M on May 11, 2023 10:58:10 GMT
On the Elizabeth line at least, the tunnels all include an emergency walkway and do not feature electrified rails so the risks are not as great
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Post by ijmad on May 11, 2023 19:59:52 GMT
On the Elizabeth line at least, the tunnels all include an emergency walkway and do not feature electrified rails so the risks are not as great The Thameslink tunnels, while mostly old, aren't tight single bores either, except for stretch of the Canal Tunnels which does indeed have a walkway.
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Post by Chris L on May 11, 2023 20:16:59 GMT
On the Elizabeth line at least, the tunnels all include an emergency walkway and do not feature electrified rails so the risks are not as great The walkways I saw around Liverpool Street when I worked there were level with the bottom of the train doors so better for emergency evacuations.
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Post by f73a on May 12, 2023 9:41:33 GMT
From what I recall from the train-to-train evacuation during trial ops, there is a hefty step down from the train to the walkway. It is not level.
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Post by d7666 on May 12, 2023 13:51:29 GMT
On the Elizabeth line at least, the tunnels all include an emergency walkway and do not feature electrified rails so the risks are not as great The Thameslink tunnels, while mostly old, aren't tight single bores either, except for stretch of the Canal Tunnels which does indeed have a walkway. Canal is new construction. Must admit I had overlooked that in my post about Victorian build- I commute on Thameslink but on the MML and core bits and seldom think of the new GN bit. The presence of DC traction rails is not directly relevant to the current requirements for new single tunnels - they have to have walkways anyway - the concern is evacuation per se. The old Thameslink Midlland City route to Moorgate did have single line tunnel sections by definition but not as first constructed. When Barbican and Moorgate area was rebuilt, some structures split the Up and Down lines over a length that exceeds more than a couple of carriages and prevented side egress. That is why end gangways were on 317s (end corridors) and 319s (escape doors) else they would have cabs like 150s and 321s respectively. Yes, BR continued to use non gangway carriages to Moorgate after the area was rebuilt, but that was permitted only to continue until existing stock could be replaced. There had been early comment in an incident about a DMMU fire ; I forget which incident it was now. If that Moorgate area rebuild had taken place rather later than it did, they would have to have provided escape walkways. 700s do not have end gangways - not even escape gangways like 717s do - because there are either walkways(GN bits) or the locations on the MML where clearances are tight (between St.Pancras and Kentish Town) the long unit nature of 700s mean there is always one part of the train in the clear. Obviously it is double track, so the other track is available for escape, the clearance issue is on the tunnel wall side and very VERY close in some places (take a look on the southbound track immediately on entering the tunnels south of Kentish Town). One of the escape plans for 700s is evac to another 700 drawn up side by side. There are special kits to do that that I /think/ each 700 carries at least two of somewhere in the train. 345s evac on the Eliz line area bit different as the route is essentially all single bore tunnels for practical purposes and with walkways. Drifting a bit, channel tunnel has walkaways. I have been on those, as I took part in the original 373s evac exercises.
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Post by d7666 on May 12, 2023 20:34:18 GMT
Yes, BR continued to use non gangway carriages to Moorgate after the area was rebuilt, but that was permitted only to continue until existing stock could be replaced. There had been early comment in an incident about a DMMU fire ; I forget which incident it was now. . Here it is: www.railwaysarchive.co.uk/docsummary.php?docID=262Para.52 is the relevant one to here. The DMU fire incident itself has zero on underground topic relevance, it occurred on main line between Harpenden and St.Albans, but para 52 being a concern if had it happened on the Met. Widened lines, which was entirely plausible. Even by 1950s design standard, running a prop shaft in a tunnel through a fuel tank is asking for trouble. As always with these things, the Inspector's report is fascinating reading.
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Post by jimbo on Jun 14, 2023 4:19:49 GMT
In January, Siemens Mobility completed all works at the test track in Wildenrath in Germany, including installation of third and fourth rail power upgrades and building of a platform for one-person operation. Testing will start on the track to ensure all upgrades are functioning correctly ahead of the first train arriving there for dynamic testing in the summer.
In March, the first-in-type driving motor car body shell was completed by Siemens. The car body is now ready to enter the painting process. This keeps us on target for the first train to be completed and transferred to the test centre in Wildenrath to start commissioning tests this autumn.
Our depot migration plans is under review after a change to our wheel lathe delivery caused knock-on impacts, leaving our depots programme misaligned to the train introduction dates. We are working through mitigation options to minimise any schedule and cost impacts.
[Finance Report - Period 1, 2023/24 - Management results from 1 April 2023 – 29 April 2023]
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Post by xtmw on Jun 27, 2023 22:16:20 GMT
There has been talk about the NTfL on the Picc line thread which I made which has brought me to here. What are the plans for the new trains once the Piccadilly is completed? I assume the Bakerloo will be next, followed by the Central and the W&C? Although I have a feeling this won't come for a long time due to the financial situation TfL is in right now
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Post by jimbo on Jun 28, 2023 1:05:34 GMT
The 2014 NTfL feasibility study recommended the most efficient upgrade of the four lines would involve a continuing build of a single train design, but financial problems led the initial order to be for the Picc, with options for the other lines. Currently Government support for TfL runs to March 2024, but negotiations continue for a long-term transport investment settlement like the settlements given in the Budget to eight regions outside of London, the Cities Region Sustainable Transport Settlements (CRSTS) which extend to 2031-32. Currently a case is being built for a contract extension with Siemens for the Bakerloo trains which must be ordered in 2026. Beyond that is really long-term planning!
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Post by davidb on Jul 19, 2023 20:44:29 GMT
Photo of a completed train rolling through St. Pölten Hbf, Austria:
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Post by xplaistow on Jul 19, 2023 22:28:39 GMT
Here's another picture that shows the whole thing:
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Post by jimbo on Jul 20, 2023 5:11:49 GMT
There has been little news of the first train this year! The Investment programme report to the Programmes and Investment Committee meeting on Wednesday 19 July 2023, yesterday, says:
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Post by Chris L on Jul 20, 2023 9:01:43 GMT
There has been little news of the first train this year! The Investment programme report to the Programmes and Investment Committee meeting on Wednesday 19 July 2023, yesterday, says: This was reported up thread and the picture clearly shows that a train is complete and moving.
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Post by trt on Jul 20, 2023 9:32:37 GMT
Does.. does.. are... Hm... Are there wheels missing off that train? It doesn't look right.
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Post by Dstock7080 on Jul 20, 2023 9:46:05 GMT
That is by design, 5 bogie cars, 4 floating
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Post by trt on Jul 20, 2023 9:48:47 GMT
It just looks so wrong. No single leaf doors either. Except the very end set which is disguised. Driver's door? The cab windows at the side are tiny. It's also being towed I think. I see a coupling bar at the front. Well, obviously I guess as the power supply would be all wrong. They have built a suitable test track somewhere I take it. EDIT: I see, up thread... Wildenrath.
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Post by jimbo on Jul 20, 2023 12:04:20 GMT
Why is the first build numbered unit 71?
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Post by t697 on Jul 20, 2023 12:24:45 GMT
The pictures don't seem to have working links for me. On the '71' thing, first trains on test are often retained as test vehicles for a long while after production ones start delivery. Perhaps this has been recognised and the number reflects a plan for it being 'refreshed' after the test programme before delivery?
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Post by Dstock7080 on Jul 20, 2023 12:57:20 GMT
Indeed, the first S Stock delivered to London was: 21099/100 as an S7, just 9 trains from the highest S8 number.
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Post by xplaistow on Jul 20, 2023 14:09:29 GMT
The pictures don't seem to have working links for me. That's probably because they're in tweets and we've had this problem before (although they're showing just fine for me even though they haven't always in the past). For the benefit of anyone for whom the tweets are not showing here are a pair of links: tweet 1tweet 2
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Post by xtmw on Jul 20, 2023 17:50:57 GMT
So I don't pay for Twitter so I can see around (what feels like 2 tweets) 100 tweets before I get rate limited for the rest of the day. Does look v weird with cars, looks like its floating
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Post by t697 on Jul 20, 2023 18:30:36 GMT
Thanks for the new links. The intermediate ends seem slightly reminiscent of some Tube cars of the 1920s if you ignore the gangway bellows. And of course we've had lots of comments about small windows earlier through this thread.
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Post by Chris L on Jul 20, 2023 18:48:37 GMT
So I don't pay for Twitter so I can see around (what feels like 2 tweets) 100 tweets before I get rate limited for the rest of the day. Does look v weird with cars on the train floating! They stopped doing that after a couple of days.
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Post by jimbo on Jul 20, 2023 19:12:20 GMT
I guess with current financial problems at TfL, they can't afford wheels for every car!
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Post by bigvern on Jul 20, 2023 20:25:29 GMT
Why is the first build numbered unit 71? Possible reason that the first train could be a de-icing train, which is numbered as the first build deicing train, so 24 deicing fitted trains out of the 94 which seems about right percentage based on current fleets. Makes sense to build a deicing train as first off because of type testing requirements.
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Post by brigham on Jul 21, 2023 7:10:46 GMT
Thanks for the new links. The intermediate ends seem slightly reminiscent of some Tube cars of the 1920s... The entire roof profile, with its vestigal clear-story, must surely be a nod to the Standard Stock of that era. Can some computer genius paint it into the appropriate red livery?
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Post by jimbo on Jul 21, 2023 7:50:42 GMT
Deicing is carried on the middle car, no.5 of 9, or possibly flange lubrication, or track monitoring equipment. See table in RailEngineer
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enness
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Post by enness on Jul 21, 2023 8:24:09 GMT
It just looks so wrong. No single leaf doors either. Except the very end set which is disguised. Driver's door? The cab windows at the side are tiny. Is that tiny cab window to view CCTV screen in the tunnel when stopped at a station (when the cab is in the tunnel) ?
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