New tube for London stock

After the Piccadilly, what order will they enter service on the other lines

Would the 1995/96 tube stocks get replacement stock? I suppose the Jubilee line would not have new rolling stock easily as they would require rolling stock to match the platform screen doors. How long were the 1995/96 tube stocks designed to last?

Is there any reason to think that Siemens have not already been asked to ensure that the door alignment on the new Picaddilly Line rolling stock will also match the existing Jubillee line Platform Edge Doors(PEDS)? Even if not explicitly in the tender terms, clearly doing this is in Siemens own interest as it would make them a very strong contender to replace the Jubillee stock whenever TFL have the funds to proceed.

Does anyone know what happened to plans to fit PEDS on the Battersea Extension. Presumably any Northern line PEDS would need to match the existing rolling stock. However if the idea was eventually dumped then it probably makes sense for TFL to try and settle on a definitive door alignment right now, so if (when) the safety people call for PEDs on all regularly over-crowded platforms TFL will have a path to respond.

The requirement to match a specific door alignment should not preclude other bidders offering to supply trains going forward.

"Our design vision is for a train that both echoes the best of London's transport heritage and utilities the latest modern technology."

Speaking of that, the New Tube for London does bare resemblence to the 1938 tube stock, owing to the windows.

modify the single door sections of the Jubilee PEDs to for double doorways? During the works the Jubilee reverts to terminating at Charing Cross, plus a Canning Town - Stratford shuttle

Works done around Christmas, taking just a fortnight (max) as they progress 24/7 and until then the new trains avoid the subterranean section of the JLE

Simple on paper, but in reality?

Or they could just get a new design to replace both the 1995s and 1996s to be delivered 2036-2043 (by which time the design for the New Tube will be over 15 years old) with the doors in the same configuration to avoid any unnecessary expense and faffing around with the PEDs

I tend to agree. Also, on the Jubilee line the only station with significantly curved platforms is Finchley Road, so the pressure for shorter articulated shells so as to minimise steps and gaps to the platform should be less and the present carbody layout works fairly well unless one insists on an open gangway walk through train.
Rather less so on on the Northern line perhaps. There, train length was lost going to the present 6 car version of this carbody style. Maybe the Northern line would benefit from the New Tube train type.

Are walkthrough carriages not favoured now to maximise space utilisation?

As always it's due to the location of platform entrances and exits.

I've not found it anything like as beneficial on the Met to even out loading as it was expected to be.  Once the train is at all busy it's not easy to walk through, and it mostly seems to be used towards the end of the line as numbers thin out, when people walk to the right bit of the train to be opposite the exit as the train nears their stop.

That's because the queues are too long to fit in the normal manner - every bit of platform space is used in the peaks.

It is almost certain that the new trains won't have the exact same spacing of doors as the 1996ts so new PEDs will be required for that reason. At the time of new trains the PED's will have come to the end of there life at that time anyway they will likely need replacing for reliability reasons.

Before the new stock is introduced there will have to be a removal of the current PEDs. This is surely the only practical solution. This will lead to a period of no PEDs on platforms while both new and old stock operate until all 96ts trains have departed and all new trains introduced. this will be the point when PED's return to the Line. 

The departure of the 1996ts and the introduction of new stock may over a year or more anyway with the average rate of building a train for the tube being one per week. The only practical solution is to operate without PEDs during this time as it will not be possible to use them with two different stocks with different doors at the same time.

The reason for providing PED's was it eliminated the need to provide draft relief shafts and meant the JLE engineers could get away with not chamfering the ends of the running tunnels saving money. As well as the obvious benefit of passenger safety and design of the stations. 

The major decision will be in the design of the risk assessment and any legal implications in operating without PED's for a period. The risk assessment will likely say something along the lines of - trains arriving and departing at slower speeds during the changeover to manage drafts and to enable operators to stop short of someone falling, increased staff and police presence in the stations and the fact that the other JLE stations manage without them (as does the rest of the tube) so can the JLE underground stations for a period provided appropriate safety measures are taken. 

S8 didn't fit, being 2 metres longer than A stock. Shortening the S stock design to A stock length would have only required about 40mm narrower stand-back areas at each side of doorways. But LU decided the future should not be limited by the past, and the cost of lengthening platforms and signalling was worth the 40 year benefit of longer trains.


The Jubilee line was built for 8-car equivalent trains, and all double doors will shorten dwell times, allowing a more frequent service. Central line length trains will add 8 metres to train length, or 6% capacity, and walk through trains, allowing standing over the couplers, increases capacity a further 10%.


The Picc train order was developed from LU designs for the Vic Line 25 years back! Who would have thought when the Vic and SSL trains were ordered, that it would return again. The Jubilee line order may be 10 years away at least, and outside the current Siemens contract. The case for Northern or Jubilee replacement first is similar to the current case of Picc over Bloo. Both lines current trains are of similar age, so order of replacement will depend on how well they are meeting demand at that time.


I believe replacement PEDs will be essential, by then near 40 years old and due for renewal. A 10 day Christmas blockade would allow major stations to be changed, and perhaps a dispensation for quieter stations such as Bermondsey and Southwark would allow them to operate without PEDs for a time, although platform surfaces would need to be restored. The advantage of all stations being without PEDs for the changeover period is that it allows the new trains to slowly replace the old ones, but a 10 day change-over would probably be achievable if the new trains were stockpiled off system. The service north from Green Park could interwork old & new trains whilst the central section was closed. A shuttle of old trains from Stratford to North Greenwich centre platform could operate until through trains of the new type, when the centre road could be decommissioned until new PEDs were fitted.

I would imagine a similar situation would be employed when the 1983 stock was replaced. The old fleet was relegated to the Charing Cross branch only leaving the new 1996 stock to work the extension. Now the difference is that the whole line wasn’t open back then. There are a lot more than 33 trains to replace and the frequency is much greater now meaning you would have to run passengers to Charing Cross and back not in service as there isn’t time to detrain them.

A guess would be that along with some relatively lengthy closures over long weekends etc the smaller fleet would work to Charing Cross first and once there were enough trains to run the extension the platform doors could be modified to suit the new stock. Even this will be problematic!

Anyhow we are just creeping into fantasy now so let’s get back to the Siemens stock....