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Post by Dstock7080 on Mar 23, 2020 10:12:08 GMT
From Saturday 21, District until further notice: Richmond-Tower Hill 15min Ealing Broadway-Tower Hill 15min Olympia-Upminster 15min Wimbledon-Edgware Road 15min
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Chris M
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Post by Chris M on Mar 23, 2020 10:36:34 GMT
When was the last time an Upminster-Olympia service ran? It's not one I can recall being particularly common.
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Post by tut on Mar 23, 2020 10:51:15 GMT
Are the Amersham - Harrow-on-the-Hills running fast?
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Post by superteacher on Mar 23, 2020 10:51:38 GMT
When was the last time an Upminster-Olympia service ran? It's not one I can recall being particularly common. Ironic that Olympia is the only station that is getting a better service from all this. Olympia is usually only used during weekdays to reverse late running trains. I believe there were a few Upminster to Olympia services when they were doing work at Ealing Common a few years back.
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Post by MoreToJack on Mar 23, 2020 11:04:53 GMT
Are the Amersham - Harrow-on-the-Hills running fast? Yes, reversing in platform 2. Let’s hope I don’t forget. 😅 Also from 22nd March, no Circle line services until further notice, Hammersmith & City lube services every 15 minutes.
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Post by superteacher on Mar 23, 2020 11:07:13 GMT
Are the Amersham - Harrow-on-the-Hills running fast? Yes, reversing in platform 2. Let’s hope I don’t forget. 😅 Yes - S stock don't like going to Marylebone . . .
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Post by A60stock on Mar 23, 2020 11:49:33 GMT
Does anyone know what service pattern is being run across all lines during the emergency period the country is currently facing
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Post by crusty54 on Mar 23, 2020 13:17:02 GMT
I suspect work on the Elizabeth line will depend principally on the availability of workers. A former colleague of mine is on site at Farringdon. Work still in progress.
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Post by Tomcakes on Mar 23, 2020 14:58:24 GMT
Season tickets can be refunded, in theory - been trying for some time to get through to the "help" desk - sat on a queue for 45 mins yesterday, no luck, today I rang and just got a message saying 'we are unable to take your call', the system then cleared down.
I've put in an email request. Don't mind waiting, so long as they backdate it.
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North End
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Post by North End on Mar 23, 2020 15:13:01 GMT
Does anyone know what service pattern is being run across all lines during the emergency period the country is currently facing Most if not all lines are running a special service. I'm not going to attempt to post intervals as these are determined by how many trains are running and the extent to which service control are able to even out the intervals. Bakerloo - Queen's Park to Elephant & Castle Central - West Ruislip to North Acton, Ealing Broadway to Hainault, Leytonstone to Epping, Hainault to Woodford Victoria - Walthamstow to Brixton Jubilee - Stanmore to Stratford Northern - Edgware to Kennington via CX, High Barnet to Morden via Bank, Finchley Central to Mill Hill East District - Richmond to Tower Hill, Ealing Broadway to Tower Hill, Wimbledon to Edgware Road, Olympia to Upminster H&C - Hammersmith to Barking Metropolitan - Aldgate to Uxbridge, Baker Street to Watford, Harrow to Amersham, Watford to Chesham I can't quite work out what the Piccadilly is doing, they claim to be running a special service yet they are running with normal numbers and what looks like a normal service with many cancellations. Circle and Waterloo & City suspended. Most likes have fared reasonably well in terms of intervals, the Central in particular has done rather better than yesterday with the altered pattern, although as I write this there's a 25-minute interval through the central area. How much longer this continues is anyone's guess. Operating staff numbers continue to drop, and there's increasing discontent about a wide range of issues not least the fact that the 2 metre spacing is proving impracticable in practice. I think it's a case whether lack of drivers or lack of control staff is the straw which is going to break the camel's back. For those interested in how a special service operates, it *may* be the case that some of the lines are starting up normally, with crews bringing into service what would be their normal numbered trains. These are then progressively re-crewed and renumbered to the special pattern by the crew managers as required. A special service is very easy to operate once it's in - the individual services are generally worked according to crew availability with as far as possible one depot running each service. Drivers will simply be allocated to a train and taken off by the applicable crew manager once they approach 4 hours 15 mins. In many cases trains are numbered according to crew depot so that everyone knows who is on what. The difficult part of running a special is bringing it in and out, especially doing so without producing some massive intervals or lack of service to outlying destinations, and of course considering factors like preserving last train times/numbers, stock balance et cetera. With something like TBTC a special is quite easy to operate, as rather than being assigned to a "run" on the system (a "run" being a timetabled train number where the system has that day's timetable for that train loaded into it), it is instead allocated to a "line" which is a pre-listed set of service patterns (for example Stanmore-Stratford) and the train will simply do that all day long with normal running times, 4-minute layovers at each end, and no other staff intervention required except holding where necessary to even out intervals. Others may be able to provide some insight for the systems used on other lines.
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Post by zbang on Mar 23, 2020 19:22:48 GMT
This just in, well, an hour ago- www.bbc.com/news/uk-england-london-52003076Coronavirus: Tube drivers 'furious' at crowded carriages London Underground passengers have been crowding on to Tube trains, despite warnings to limit non-essential travel. Images from Monday's rush hour show busy carriages, which unions say left staff feeling "furious" as it rendered social distancing "impossible". [...]
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North End
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Post by North End on Mar 23, 2020 19:44:22 GMT
This just in, well, an hour ago- www.bbc.com/news/uk-england-london-52003076Coronavirus: Tube drivers 'furious' at crowded carriages London Underground passengers have been crowding on to Tube trains, despite warnings to limit non-essential travel. Images from Monday's rush hour show busy carriages, which unions say left staff feeling "furious" as it rendered social distancing "impossible". [...] Yes it's this which is going to make a lockdown inevitable, whether tonight or some point soon. If the key workers down tools because they feel they can't work safely then quite simply we will have no Underground, no NHS, no food, no power and the like. The way *some* people have behaved is disgraceful. Just now I walked down a stairwell at a central area station, and a group coming the other way made no attempt to walk up the correct side and instead attempted to brush right past me. They are now making their journey by foot. *Everyone* needs to take note of the advice which is being given out. Too many either haven't thought about it at all, or seem to think it doesn't apply to them. The Underground has a problem - it *can't* run more trains because drivers and other staff are going unavailable due to isolating or shielding, yet at present numbers at certain times and places are too high to maintain the 2 metre separation. It may well be the case that further stations will have to close or sections of line be closed to enable a more frequent service in other areas. Either of these solutions will cause further issues for key workers. Behaviours need to change in order to reconcile this problem.
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Post by Chris W on Mar 23, 2020 20:00:20 GMT
Without wishing to take this in a 'political' direction, I think we're seeing travellers/users of LU who are: - Essential workers
- Those on '0' hours contracts who would not be able to afford rent/mortgage/food etc.
- A minority who aren't heeding advice
#SadTimesWeLiveIn
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Post by theblackferret on Mar 23, 2020 22:24:48 GMT
And Beijing has now put on more metro trains so essential workers can both get to work and still maintain the 2-metre distancing.
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Post by spsmiler on Mar 23, 2020 22:35:56 GMT
When the S stock was brand new I seem to recall that the first District line passenger services using these trains went to Olympia. I am not sure from where - possibly West Ham siding, Plaistow bay or Barking Bay. possibly the eastern terminus changed over time. But I feel sure that I travelled on one from Barking and noted the clickety-clack sound because the section of track used by westbound trains from the bay was still jointed track. (It might still be, I am unsure).
The Chesham - Watford service sounds great, as does the fast Amersham. However, I regret that at the present time I have to stay away. I would much prefer to sample these but the present emergency situation has forced my hands.
However, I did have to go out this afternoon, as we needed fresh milk. I walked to Sainsburys Local at Gants Hill and to cross the road used the subterranean passageways. Whilst at the ticket hall I did not see any Metro newspapers (maybe they have stopped publishing?) but did notice several posters about special services, social distancing, etc. In due course I'll share some photos here - first however they need to be downloaded off my camera. Whilst there an eastbound train could be heard departing from the station. How do I know its direction of travel? I saw quite a few people coming off the up escalator. More people than I had expected.
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Post by PiccNT on Mar 23, 2020 23:40:34 GMT
Following on from North End's post:
Well we seem to be running the normal timetable but with a load of cancellations as you alluded to. I went to Uxbridge this evening and from my observations, it seemed like we were providing a 10 minute service there with very few reversing at Rayners. Number of T/Op's at the east end of the line is very good, in fact at my depot, I think we have the majority of duties covered on the late shift tomorrow. At the moment!
The problem for the morning peak, as has been mentioned, is the sheer amount of people cramming onto a train. A large percentage appear to be construction workers so until something in done to suspend that industry, the problem may not disappear until we only allow essential workers onto trains.
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North End
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Post by North End on Mar 24, 2020 0:03:33 GMT
Following on from North End's post: Well we seem to be running the normal timetable but with a load of cancellations as you alluded to. I went to Uxbridge this evening and from my observations, it seemed like we were providing a 10 minute service there with very few reversing at Rayners. Number of T/Op's at the east end of the line is very good, in fact at my depot, I think we have the majority of duties covered on the late shift tomorrow. At the moment! . Have to say the Picc Line has held up amazingly well. Every time I’ve looked at Trackernet it’s shown a pretty well regulated service, with no obvious gaps including to all the extremes. A credit to everyone involved in running the line I’d say. A much better service than the Central Line had on Sunday.
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Post by superteacher on Mar 24, 2020 7:54:09 GMT
What’s the picture this morning? Is demand any lower?
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hobbayne
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Post by hobbayne on Mar 24, 2020 9:18:49 GMT
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Post by superteacher on Mar 24, 2020 9:36:29 GMT
Would it be possible to concentrate the drivers still available to run during the peaks only?
The issue is that key workers still need to get to work. Also, self-employed people feel that they have no alternative but to go to work. Having said that, as I type, there will be an announcement later regarding potential support for these people, which may alleviate things.
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Post by crusty54 on Mar 24, 2020 10:02:11 GMT
Would it be possible to concentrate the drivers still available to run during the peaks only? The issue is that key workers still need to get to work. Also, self-employed people feel that they have no alternative but to go to work. Having said that, as I type, there will be an announcement later regarding potential support for these people, which may alleviate things. Shift patterns make it impossible to judge when trains should run.
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North End
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Post by North End on Mar 24, 2020 10:02:37 GMT
Would it be possible to concentrate the drivers still available to run during the peaks only? The issue is that key workers still need to get to work. Also, self-employed people feel that they have no alternative but to go to work. Having said that, as I type, there will be an announcement later regarding potential support for these people, which may alleviate things. It may be possible to make some small changes, perhaps add in a few extra short workings at busy times, but beyond that probably not. Especially with staff numbers continuing to drop with each day that passes. I think the only solution is to further suppress demand. The lockdown will no doubt help especially as more and more people come to terms with it. Certainly those staff at work are happier now - the last few days have seen quite a bit of anger that staff are coming to work and - quite simply - are having to put up with fools not following the advice they’ve been given. Staff are already to some extent risking their own wellbeing simply by coming to work, and don’t need unnecessary risk. If LU staff feel this way then others like NHS staff must feel it to an even greater level. And from a psychological point of view at least it doesn’t feel like coming to work whilst others get weeks or months paid holiday going for jollies to the seaside, like we saw at the weekend!
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Post by aslefshrugged on Mar 24, 2020 10:24:12 GMT
And Beijing has now put on more metro trains so essential workers can both get to work and still maintain the 2-metre distancing. China doesn't have to work within the Railways and Other Guided Transport Systems (Safety) Regulations 2006, they can just tell their train drivers to work regardless of fatigue or send them to a "re-education" camp if they refuse. Would it be possible to concentrate the drivers still available to run during the peaks only? The issue is that key workers still need to get to work. Also, self-employed people feel that they have no alternative but to go to work. Having said that, as I type, there will be an announcement later regarding potential support for these people, which may alleviate things. Our shifts are up to 8 hours long so invariably we will be working during one of the two peaks. If you are suggesting we work in the morning peak, take a break then work in the evening peak that would be illegal as there has to be an 8-hour minimum rest period between booking off and booking on plus travelling time. The general guideline is that travelling time is up to 2 hours so in practical terms the break is 12 hours between shifts (its been a while since I was a H&S rep so if any of that has changed or my memory is at fault I will stand corrected).
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Post by superteacher on Mar 24, 2020 11:05:37 GMT
And Beijing has now put on more metro trains so essential workers can both get to work and still maintain the 2-metre distancing. China doesn't have to work within the Railways and Other Guided Transport Systems (Safety) Regulations 2006, they can just tell their train drivers to work regardless of fatigue or send them to a "re-education" camp if they refuse. Would it be possible to concentrate the drivers still available to run during the peaks only? The issue is that key workers still need to get to work. Also, self-employed people feel that they have no alternative but to go to work. Having said that, as I type, there will be an announcement later regarding potential support for these people, which may alleviate things. Our shifts are up to 8 hours long so invariably we will be working during one of the two peaks. If you are suggesting we work in the morning peak, take a break then work in the evening peak that would be illegal as there has to be an 8-hour minimum rest period between booking off and booking on plus travelling time. The general guideline is that travelling time is up to 2 hours so in practical terms the break is 12 hours between shifts (its been a while since I was a H&S rep so if any of that has changed or my memory is at fault I will stand corrected). Definitely not suggesting that you work beyond legal limits, but looking for possible solutions.
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Post by aslefshrugged on Mar 24, 2020 12:20:50 GMT
It is simple mathematics. The morning peak finishes at 09:30, the evening peak starts 7 hours later at 16:30, there's no possible way anyone can work an 8 hour shift and drive a train for both peaks
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North End
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Post by North End on Mar 24, 2020 12:28:55 GMT
It is simple mathematics. The morning peak finishes at 09:30, the evening peak starts 7 hours later at 16:30, there's no possible way anyone can work an 8 hour shift and drive a train for both peaks I agree, even if there was a completely free hand to change duty times it wouldn’t work as the only way to do it would be to adjust dead earlier and dead lates to be more aligned with the peaks, and that would then cause a big shortage of crews at the extremes of the day, which are times shift workers need to travel. If anything it would probably be more useful to change middle turns to come in earlier so they can run an enhanced service for the first few hours, which is where the problem seems to be arising, and then thin out during the midday. Again, difficult in practice as crews naturally arrange themselves around the roster. There really are no easy answers to this one, hence why we’re seeing drastic measures.
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Post by superteacher on Mar 24, 2020 12:28:59 GMT
It is simple mathematics. The morning peak finishes at 09:30, the evening peak starts 7 hours later at 16:30, there's no possible way anyone can work an 8 hour shift and drive a train for both peaks What if there was a temporary change in rules and regulations so that split shifts were permitted again?
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Chris M
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Post by Chris M on Mar 24, 2020 12:33:10 GMT
My interpretation of the original suggestion was to re-arrange shift times so that a greater proportion cover the peaks than the off-peaks, however the shifts will already be optimised for this as the peaks are when the greatest number of trains are run and so the greatest number of drivers are needed.
Without knowing a few days in advance which drivers will be available on which days you can't (for practical) reallocate them to cover different shifts, and that is ignoring any restrictions imposed by law and/or union agreements.
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North End
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Post by North End on Mar 24, 2020 12:49:10 GMT
It is simple mathematics. The morning peak finishes at 09:30, the evening peak starts 7 hours later at 16:30, there's no possible way anyone can work an 8 hour shift and drive a train for both peaks What if there was a temporary change in rules and regulations so that split shifts were permitted again? I suppose you could, but you run into issues regarding rest and the like as well. It might be okay for crews who live near their depot, but unfeasible for those who don’t. Again I’m not sure how much it would solve. It might be better just moving a few crews from late to early turn (generally crews favour earlies so some would probably be happy to do this) and run more in the morning and less in the evening. But again some careful focus will be needed to protect the late evening.
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Post by dandanthfc on Mar 24, 2020 12:56:38 GMT
Well today I have been sent home from Ashfield House as all training has been cancelled for obvious reasons not happy as I waited over 3 years for driver training,but fully understand the situation and know theres not much I can do......although its frustrating to see so many non key workers using the underground and nothing is being done,I guess at the moment someone working on a building site is more important than doctors and nurses etc.
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