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Post by aslefshrugged on Jun 3, 2020 10:12:31 GMT
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Dstock7080
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Post by Dstock7080 on Jun 3, 2020 16:32:54 GMT
Unions have now been informed that Night Tube is now officially suspended until 31 March 2021.
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North End
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Post by North End on Jun 3, 2020 16:36:39 GMT
Unions have now been informed that Night Tube is now officially suspended until 31 March 2021. A sensible decision for once. It wouldn’t surprise me at all to see it never return, and to be quite honest it won’t be missed. A dumb idea in the first place, and a nuisance operationally on so many levels.
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futurix
Formerly Alex F
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Post by futurix on Jun 3, 2020 17:44:30 GMT
A dumb idea in the first place Care to explain why you think so? I found Night Tube extremely useful and well liked by those who actually lived in the coverage area.
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Post by Chris L on Jun 3, 2020 17:49:17 GMT
A dumb idea in the first place Care to explain why you think so? I found Night Tube extremely useful and well liked by those who actually lived in the coverage area. Massive costs and limited returns (even allowing for the 2 way journeys generated).
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North End
Beneath Newington Causeway
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Post by North End on Jun 3, 2020 18:02:08 GMT
A dumb idea in the first place Care to explain why you think so? I found Night Tube extremely useful and well liked by those who actually lived in the coverage area. If you saw how the trains and stations ended up by the end of the night then you wouldn’t be asking that question! It was a nuisance to set up, and indeed some of the arrangements have proved a real problem during this current situation, for example it has massively complicated closing down on Friday and Saturday nights. Likewise there’s a major problem with the lack of overnight access for two nights of the week, so a defect arising during Friday cannot be investigated until the Sunday night. Add in the massive operating cost, and some of the staffing issues it has created, for little return. The idea that it would primarily be used by shift workers has turned out to be completely wide of the mark. I would crack open a champagne if and when it’s announced that it’s being permanently discontinued.
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Post by goldenarrow on Jun 3, 2020 18:20:08 GMT
I think MoreToJack mentioned this above so apologies of this is repeating, but the vast majority of the merits of Night Tube operation could have been achieved by extending operating hours a bit each way on the days concerned. I know from Heathrow’s perspective, Night Tube was a pain. Antisocial incidents sky rocketed as did other emergency call outs and staff usage was a trickle compared to what was being forecast mostly due to the well established bus network many of which provide 24hr links all week not just on two days. Even as a student, all the journeys I did on Night Tube could have been done on the Night Bus network which pretty much stretches out to every developed area in this city not to mention being much more flexible as a transport operation infrastructure wise.
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Tom
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Post by Tom on Jun 3, 2020 18:55:26 GMT
I think MoreToJack mentioned this above so apologies of this is repeating, but the vast majority of the merits of Night Tube operation could have been achieved by extending operating hours a bit each way on the days concerned. That was the plan in about 2006 - extended hours on Friday and Saturday nights. All the programme machine modifications were done and never used. I have to admit when I spent a week on nights at Heathrow last year I was surprised at how busy it was - when we finished the night's work we'd go up to Costa in Terminal 2 and it would be full of people on early morning flights who'd arrived on the last train.
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rincew1nd
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Post by rincew1nd on Jun 3, 2020 19:09:37 GMT
I don't know how it is in London, but buses in NE England seem to be very stuffy and overly heated; a hothouse for germs if ever there was. I'd be inclined to wear a mask and probably gloves if I were intending to travel by bus. Especially now, with this Covid business on the go. I see lots of people wearing gloves, unfortunately I've seen people wearing for prolonged periods. For gloves to be effective they need to be changed often; you wouldn't have sex with multiple partners wearing the same condom.
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Post by MoreToJack on Jun 3, 2020 19:24:51 GMT
I think MoreToJack mentioned this above so apologies of this is repeating, but the vast majority of the merits of Night Tube operation could have been achieved by extending operating hours a bit each way on the days concerned. I know from Heathrow’s perspective, Night Tube was a pain. Antisocial incidents sky rocketed as did other emergency call outs and staff usage was a trickle compared to what’s was being forecast mostly due to the well established bus network many of which provide 24hr links all week not just on two days. Even as a student, all the journeys I did on Night Tube could have been done on the Night Bus network which pretty much stretches out to every developed area in this city not to mention being much more flexible as a transport operation infrastructure wise. Yes, very much this. Not forgetting of course that the bus routes (generally) take you from where you were to your door (at least they did before a lot of the post-NT modifications started...!), whereas NT often means you have to take a train and then a bus, anyway, often with no quicker a journey. In part, along with the fact it is so limited in operation, is a lot of the reason why the proposed passenger increases never happened. My voice is very much amongst those that won't miss NT if it went for good.
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Post by superteacher on Jun 3, 2020 21:47:40 GMT
The pros and cons of Night Tube have been discussed elsewhere. The only thing relevant to this thread is that it’s been suspended until next year. Back to Coronavirus discussion please.
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Post by sawb on Jun 4, 2020 7:32:14 GMT
Out of interest, what's the latest a decision has to be made on all night running for New Year? I know tickets for the fireworks normally go on sale in July.
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Post by brigham on Jun 4, 2020 7:35:21 GMT
I don't know how it is in London, but buses in NE England seem to be very stuffy and overly heated; a hothouse for germs if ever there was. I'd be inclined to wear a mask and probably gloves if I were intending to travel by bus. Especially now, with this Covid business on the go. I see lots of people wearing gloves, unfortunately I've seen people wearing for prolonged periods. For gloves to be effective they need to be changed often; you wouldn't have sex with multiple partners wearing the same condom. My private life IS, and will REMAIN, off-topic!
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Post by superteacher on Jun 4, 2020 7:48:17 GMT
Out of interest, what's the latest a decision has to be made on all night running for New Year? I know tickets for the fireworks normally go on sale in July. I suspect mass gatherings like firework displays will be amongst the last things to be brought back. I can’t see it happening this year.
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Post by brigham on Jun 4, 2020 10:28:51 GMT
It won't be permitted unless it's too difficult to stop.
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Post by sawb on Jun 4, 2020 12:43:33 GMT
It won't be permitted unless it's too difficult to stop. Shouldn't be too difficult I wouldn't have thought. The road closures just won't be applied for. That really only leaves Trafalgar Square as a possible issue in Central London and Wood Green in the north, unless there's any obvious areas I've missed.
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Dstock7080
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Post by Dstock7080 on Jun 4, 2020 16:14:37 GMT
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Post by philthetube on Jun 4, 2020 16:32:19 GMT
hope this dosen't include drivers while in the cab.
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North End
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Post by North End on Jun 4, 2020 16:45:57 GMT
If so important, then why two weeks from now? Why not with immediate effect, or for that matter why hasn’t the measure been implemented to date? I’m guessing it’s timed to coincide with non-essential shops opening up and thus a possible increase in demand. If so that’s going to work out just swimmingly on the day! Presumably also an admission that 2 metre spacing just isn’t going to work. No one has yet explained what is supposed to happen when someone gets on a quiet train and then later in the journey someone else boards and encroaches upon the 2 metre bubble, especially if by this time there’s no more space available. Has any other country made quite such a mess of all this as we have?
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Post by Chris L on Jun 4, 2020 18:16:18 GMT
If so important, then why two weeks from now? Why not with immediate effect, or for that matter why hasn’t the measure been implemented to date? I’m guessing it’s timed to coincide with non-essential shops opening up and thus a possible increase in demand. If so that’s going to work out just swimmingly on the day! Presumably also an admission that 2 metre spacing just isn’t going to work. No one has yet explained what is supposed to happen when someone gets on a quiet train and then later in the journey someone else boards and encroaches upon the 2 metre bubble, especially if by this time there’s no more space available. Has any other country made quite such a mess of all this as we have? Masks are not that readily available yet. Most are coming from China and promised delivery dates should be filed under fiction. I'm lucky in that my local independent chemist stocks various types. Notices are being applied to buses as they revert to front door boarding. This is an ongoing process.
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Post by Chris W on Jun 4, 2020 19:06:39 GMT
Has any other country made quite such a mess of all this as we have? [Non-political observation] Only one.... no prizes for the correct answer [/Non-political observation]
Be warned.... from reliable twitter channels I follow, NHS staff are being told/warned to prepare for a significant increase in cases from August...
I really hope that these sources are wrong...!!
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Post by sawb on Jun 4, 2020 20:18:08 GMT
Has any other country made quite such a mess of all this as we have? Can think of several examples that have already made a mess of it. I can also think of several examples of countries who are in danger of making a mess of coming out of restrictions too though, for a variety of reasons. Can see the rules around the disabled working really well and being implemented with honesty at all times.....not!
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rincew1nd
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Post by rincew1nd on Jun 5, 2020 17:47:15 GMT
Let's stick to the thread title please people: Coronavirus implications for London's Transport
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Post by PiccNT on Jun 5, 2020 22:13:30 GMT
All new schedules/timetables have been prepared and now available for the night tube lines. For some reason all night tube duties remain as scheduled on a Friday and Saturday. Mod note: Edited to remove statements about activities undertaken between close of traffic and start of traffic. Your attention is drawn to this post where all members are reminded that this forum is read by various groups of people. We enjoy a good relationship with London Underground and do not wish to make them the subject of any negative press as the result of a member's postings - particularly where that member can potentially be identified from their profile.
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Post by aslefshrugged on Jun 6, 2020 11:00:43 GMT
Night Tube drivers are contracted to work Friday and Saturday nights only, they aren't required to work any other time but it's probably cheaper to let them sit there during engineering hours than run Night Tube Meanwhile tfl.gov.uk/campaign/coronavirus-covid-
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Post by nig on Jun 6, 2020 11:01:16 GMT
All new schedules/timetables have been prepared and now available for the night tube lines. For some reason all night tube duties remain as scheduled on a Friday and Saturday. There is little else they can do as contracted to work between 8.30pm and 8.30am and you can't change that.also at Arnos grove there is 7 less night tube duties
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Post by spsmiler on Jun 6, 2020 13:23:29 GMT
On the topic of how its affecting London's Transport...
A few days ago I visited Gants Hill station to collect a freebie newspaper (not been shopping in the Gants Hill area for a few weeks, as I went elsewhere) and I noticed that they now have a one-way system in to and out of the station.
All passengers exiting the station must turn left and exit via the nearby doorway.
Departing passengers must use the other entrance which sees them walking 'straight ahead' to the ticket gates.
There were also signs which suggested that at busy times passengers might have to queue before being allowed down the escalators. I have no idea if this has actually happened - this visit was at around 3pm when the place was almost deserted.
I also saw a 'hand sanitiser' station!
In due course I will share some photos here.
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Tom
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Post by Tom on Jun 6, 2020 14:11:05 GMT
All new schedules/timetables have been prepared and now available for the night tube lines. For some reason all night tube duties remain as scheduled on a Friday and Saturday so they will do nothing between close of traffic and start of traffic. Night Tube drivers are contracted to work Friday and Saturday nights only, they aren't required to work any other time but it's probably cheaper to let them sit there during engineering hours than run Night Tube There is little else they can do as contracted to work between 8.30pm and 8.30am and you can't change that.also at Arnos grove there is 7 less night tube duties Hopefully one post will address the comments all three of you have raised - the early start up on Sunday was a London COVID Transport Task Force travel demand management proposal, and requires a certain number of night duties at each depot, which in many cases is lower than the equivalent number with Night Tube operation. There is little that can be done to make these duties more efficient on Sunday Mornings without breaking an existing agreement or on Saturday nights without recasting all the Saturday duties, which will in turn have a consequential effect on Friday duties. Such a large change would need time to implement without excessive overtime working, which must also be taken into consideration in the current financial climate. It may not be perfect, but it's the best compromise right now. Putting my mod hat on - please bear in mind as suggested above that this forum is not just read by staff or enthusiasts but can be read by anybody. This could be the person who is compiling the amended duty schedule, a director, the Commissioner for Transport, or a politician. Please consider who might be reading your post and how they may interpret it, particularly if you are suggesting (as some have been) that TfL being wasteful.
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North End
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Post by North End on Jun 6, 2020 15:01:45 GMT
All new schedules/timetables have been prepared and now available for the night tube lines. For some reason all night tube duties remain as scheduled on a Friday and Saturday so they will do nothing between close of traffic and start of traffic. Night Tube drivers are contracted to work Friday and Saturday nights only, they aren't required to work any other time but it's probably cheaper to let them sit there during engineering hours than run Night Tube There is little else they can do as contracted to work between 8.30pm and 8.30am and you can't change that.also at Arnos grove there is 7 less night tube duties Hopefully one post will address the comments all three of you have raised - the early start up on Sunday was a London COVID Transport Task Force travel demand management proposal, and requires a certain number of night duties at each depot, which in many cases is lower than the equivalent number with Night Tube operation. There is little that can be done to make these duties more efficient on Sunday Mornings without breaking an existing agreement or on Saturday nights without recasting all the Saturday duties, which will in turn have a consequential effect on Friday duties. Such a large change would need time to implement without excessive overtime working, which must also be taken into consideration in the current financial climate. It may not be perfect, but it's the best compromise right now. Putting my mod hat on - please bear in mind as suggested above that this forum is not just read by staff or enthusiasts but can be read by anybody. This could be the person who is compiling the amended duty schedule, a director, the Commissioner for Transport, or a politician. Please consider who might be reading your post and how they may interpret it, particularly if you are suggesting (as some have been) that TfL being wasteful.I agree that what is being done with the NT ops is probably making the best of a bad situation. I’m not quite persuaded by the sudden need for services first thing on a Sunday though - whilst Sunday morning first trains were always pretty busy, Sunday mornings - and this includes Night Tube - have always been very dead. At 0500 on a Sunday morning it’s been quite possible to get a NT train almost entirely to one’s self, especially heading in to London, whilst coming out would generally be the dregs from the night before, certainly not key workers. Ironically Sunday morning is actually the only time I’ve found the NT personally useful, however my travel patterns aren’t really typical. Going forward ultimately some backbone is going to be needed in making a decision regarding Night Tube, although in reality we’ll probably simply see the can kicked down the road. I don’t think this will be a major problem in terms of what happens to the crews, as I suspect many would quite happily take a full-time post if offered. With the ONA situation on certain lines even before C19 and the current lack of training, an influx of ready-to-go train operators wouldn’t go amiss at all. Pity same can’t be done in service control - for example something like the Northern needs six extra controllers in order to provide the extra desk needed for Battersea, not to mention any retirements in the meantime - the clock is ticking away!
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Post by brigham on Jun 6, 2020 15:42:35 GMT
It was an interesting experiment, the overnight service. The virus control measures might be a good opportunity to ditch it, or run equivalent buses. This would also remove a liability to safety-critical p-way inspections.
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