Chris M
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Post by Chris M on Feb 22, 2020 2:44:16 GMT
It's self contained in terms of units, but not in terms of staff.
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Post by superteacher on Feb 22, 2020 7:54:25 GMT
It's self contained in terms of units, but not in terms of staff. So if one of the shuttle trains is cancelled due to a driver being displaced, that would leave a 40 minute gap. Not exactly “minor.” |
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Post by aslefshrugged on Feb 22, 2020 8:40:20 GMT
There was only one shuttle on Thursday evening due to "temporary staff shortage/absence".
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Post by superteacher on Feb 22, 2020 10:29:38 GMT
There was only one shuttle on Thursday evening due to "temporary staff shortage/absence". Obviously too difficult to extend a Hainault train onto Woodford then short trip it on the return journey. Not only are they lumbered with a shuttle, but a 40 min gap to go with it. |
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Post by bassmike on Feb 23, 2020 2:06:52 GMT
Just my humble opinion, but hasn't the Hainault shuttle been done to death?
<<superteacher: formatting fixed. >>
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Post by stapler on Feb 23, 2020 8:20:40 GMT
Just my humble opinion, but hasn't the Hainault shuttle been done to death? Probably not if you have to use it <<superteacher: Quote fixed>> |
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Post by superteacher on Feb 23, 2020 15:24:03 GMT
Just my humble opinion, but hasn't the Hainault shuttle been done to death?
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Post by aslefshrugged on Feb 26, 2020 8:58:57 GMT
I did the Woodford shuttles on Monday, there's not a lot of wiggle room in the timetable, you don't stay long up 21 Road or at Hainault (about 3 minutes after walking from one cab to the other) so if there was a delay then you're never going to get back on time.
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Post by stapler on Feb 26, 2020 22:34:56 GMT
I did the Woodford shuttles on Monday, there's not a lot of wiggle room in the timetable, you don't stay long up 21 Road or at Hainault (about 3 minutes after walking from one cab to the other) so if there was a delay then you're never going to get back on time. I've noticed there are more delays for a.m. peak trains on the westbound main line at Woodford Jc. Perhaps that's the reason... Also, the no2 platform at Woodford seems busier than usual... Of course,when the shuttles become 4-car only, the walkthrough time will decrease... |
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Post by MoreToJack on Feb 26, 2020 23:54:40 GMT
It’s interesting that the times are clearly very close to the permitted minimums. Not a great way to run a railway, even for a “self-contained” shuttle service.
Parallels with elements of the Bakerloo dispute...?
(For our non-staff members, agreements are that drivers get four minutes to change ends in a platform and seven minutes elsewhere. This does not include any additional time to detrain if necessary.)
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Post by aslefshrugged on Feb 27, 2020 6:57:34 GMT
One of the grievances on the Bakerloo was that there wasn't enough "turnaround" time for a PNR but as there are staff toilets on platform 1 at Hainault that shouldn't be an issue.
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Post by stapler on Feb 27, 2020 8:14:17 GMT
One of the grievances on the Bakerloo was that there wasn't enough "turnaround" time for a PNR but as there are staff toilets on platform 1 at Hainault that shouldn't be an issue. Are there ditto at Loughton? I think there used to be, at the country end of the block on 3/4, but I haven't seen them used lately. Perhaps it's just down to plastic bottles of Lucozade. |
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Post by aslefshrugged on Feb 27, 2020 9:35:51 GMT
One of the grievances on the Bakerloo was that there wasn't enough "turnaround" time for a PNR but as there are staff toilets on platform 1 at Hainault that shouldn't be an issue. Are there ditto at Loughton? I think there used to be, at the country end of the block on 3/4, but I haven't seen them used lately. Perhaps it's just down to plastic bottles of Lucozade. If there are staff toilets on the Loughton platforms then I am unaware of them but there are staff toilets downstairs next to the control room. There is supposedly a step-back room on the platforms but its currently occupied by the litter-pickers who clean the trains reversing on Platforms 2/3. |
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Post by stapler on Feb 27, 2020 14:44:14 GMT
Are there ditto at Loughton? I think there used to be, at the country end of the block on 3/4, but I haven't seen them used lately. Perhaps it's just down to plastic bottles of Lucozade. If there are staff toilets on the Loughton platforms then I am unaware of them but there are staff toilets downstairs next to the control room. There is supposedly a step-back room on the platforms but its currently occupied by the litter-pickers who clean the trains reversing on Platforms 2/3. I may have this wrong. Think the w.c.s may have been on the easternmost island, 1/2, where there is still a brass water tap for cleaners to use... |
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towerman
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Post by towerman on Feb 28, 2020 14:59:27 GMT
When the 92TS upgrade is completed will WTT71 be an improvement on WTT69?I take it the Woodford-Hainault shuttle will be discontinued.
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Post by Dstock7080 on Feb 28, 2020 16:32:26 GMT
When the 92TS upgrade is completed will WTT71 be an improvement on WTT69?I take it the Woodford-Hainault shuttle will be discontinued. Timetable alterations are planned for the start of Elizabeth Line service to Ealing Broadway, possibly a Central reduction there, no mention of withdrawing the shuttle again long term. |
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Post by spsmiler on Mar 1, 2020 23:43:19 GMT
When the 92TS upgrade is completed will WTT71 be an improvement on WTT69?I take it the Woodford-Hainault shuttle will be discontinued. Timetable alterations are planned for the start of Elizabeth Line service to Ealing Broadway, possibly a Central reduction there, no mention of withdrawing the shuttle again long term. If fewer Central line trains go to Ealing Broadway will more go to West Ruislip? I wonder how many people will actually transfer away from the Central line's eastern stations when Lizzie line trains start running through to Shenfield. Stations such as Gants Hill and Newbury Park. I say this because whilst its pretty likely that Epping branch passengers would be delighted to see a few fewer trains routed via Wanstead and a few more trains routed via Snaresbrook, I question if the reduction in passenger numbers on the Hainault branch will make this possible. Also, has anyone ever thought of retaining Hainault as a terminus point for all trains and instead extending the shuttle trains through central London? (ie: through trains which when travelling eastbound are 'Hainault via Woodford')? |
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Chris M
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Post by Chris M on Mar 2, 2020 9:47:39 GMT
Just because the Ealing/West Ruislip balance is changed at the western end of the line that doesn't require a change in the Epping/Hainault balance at the east end - trains from Hainault could run to both Western branches.
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Post by stapler on Mar 2, 2020 13:31:57 GMT
<<Also, has anyone ever thought of retaining Hainault as a terminus point for all trains and instead extending the shuttle trains through central London?>>
There are not sufficient paths south of Woodford to accommodate extra trains off the loop without reducing the number of heavily loaded through trains on the main line originating at Debden,Loughton, or Epping.
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Post by spsmiler on Mar 2, 2020 23:40:35 GMT
<<Also, has anyone ever thought of retaining Hainault as a terminus point for all trains and instead extending the shuttle trains through central London?>> There are not sufficient paths south of Woodford to accommodate extra trains off the loop without reducing the number of heavily loaded through trains on the main line originating at Debden,Loughton, or Epping. Ah, thanks. Maybe this will change when the line gets new trains and is resignalled. Whenever that is..... |
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Post by ijmad on Mar 3, 2020 23:29:39 GMT
Timetable alterations are planned for the start of Elizabeth Line service to Ealing Broadway, possibly a Central reduction there, no mention of withdrawing the shuttle again long term. If fewer Central line trains go to Ealing Broadway will more go to West Ruislip? West Ruislip doesn't really need more trains. It's not that heavily used even in the peaks. Perhaps they'll just turn more at White City or North Acton? |
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Post by stapler on Mar 4, 2020 8:16:16 GMT
is there station capacity at White City or North Acton to cope with more reversers? Presumably one reason for choosing to cull some Eppings in WTT70 was that such capacity, with stepping forward, existed at Loughton, whereas stations like Newbury Park or Debden need more complex moves and thus more time? The result is that there is an over-lavish service offered between Newbury Park and Hainault.
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Post by countryman on Mar 4, 2020 9:02:53 GMT
is there station capacity at White City or North Acton to cope with more reversers? Presumably one reason for choosing to cull some Eppings in WTT70 was that such capacity, with stepping forward, existed at Loughton, whereas stations like Newbury Park or Debden need more complex moves and thus more time? The result is that there is an over-lavish service offered between Newbury Park and Hainault. There is also Northolt. As a matter of interest, how many trains reverse at North Acton? It is a 'new' facility to me, as I used to travel through almost daily in the late 60s. |
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Post by aslefshrugged on Mar 4, 2020 10:53:56 GMT
North Acton got a third platform in 1992, creating a new eastbound platform (3) and turning the old eastbound platform (2) into a reverser.
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Post by countryman on Mar 4, 2020 12:03:54 GMT
North Acton got a third platform in 1992, creating a new eastbound platform (3) and turning the old eastbound platform (2) into a reverser. I was aware of the change, but not when it was actually done. How frequently are trains actually reversed there? Are any timetabled, or just to recover service? |
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Post by aslefshrugged on Mar 4, 2020 12:15:10 GMT
There are loads of North Acton reversers, weekdays there are about half a dozen before 9am and they carry on throughout the day but I can't be bothered to count them all.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Mar 4, 2020 20:25:02 GMT
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Post by superteacher on Mar 4, 2020 22:24:29 GMT
Can we keep discussion to WTT70 please? The discussion on future timetable changes is, however, interesting so I or another mod will probably do a thread split.
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Post by stapler on Mar 5, 2020 8:10:56 GMT
WTT70 doesn't seem to have been the disaster some were anticipating. it does seemto be hanging together.But of course two additional and perhaps counterpoising factors seem to be in play. Gaps seem to be occurring more often, and this can be a real issue on the shuttle, where unexplained 40-min gaps have occurred, and (to a lesser extent) north of Loughton. The other is a seeming falling off of loadings as people work at home or self-isolate because of covid-19 worries. And has staff non-availability increased for the same reason?
Are these 2 factors actually mappable from running statistics? At the moment, any evidence seems rather anecdotal.
Mods,apologies if I have transgressed any of the forum guidelines
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Post by aslefshrugged on Mar 5, 2020 11:23:12 GMT
The 40 minute gaps on the shuttle service are easily explained, there's only one shuttle running instead of two because one of the duties that does the shuttles is uncovered and there are no spare drivers available to cover it
At Leytonstone on the Monday to Thursday roster we have two duties that do shuttles, 612 (08:15-!6:36) and 627 (14:11-21:36), if the driver due to do either of those duties is off sick or absent for some other reason and there are no spares available then one of the trains is going to have to be put away in Hainault depot until the relieving driver arrives or a spare becomes available.
The same with trains beyond Loughton, if there's a duty uncovered then they have to cancel a train, with the number of Epping and Debden trains cut if one goes missing it becomes more noticeable.
As of yesterday I'd not heard of any drivers "self isolating" because of the coronavirus (and it is getting talked about at the depots). The absence of staff is just that we don't have enough drivers (and haven't for a long time).
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