|
|
Post by countryman on Jan 28, 2020 13:35:03 GMT
WTT70 already saves 2x 8-car on WTT69 and keeping the shuttle as 8-car. Quite. The refurb scheme called for release of 3 trains, and without 4 car shuttles, they get 2. So does that mean the time taken will be a third longer? No, 50% longer. |
|
|
|
Post by gals on Jan 28, 2020 23:13:17 GMT
So, how long do we reckon before we get to see this first refurbished train back in action to see the improvements? 2-3 weeks?
|
|
|
|
Post by Dstock7080 on Jan 29, 2020 2:11:29 GMT
So, how long do we reckon before we get to see this first refurbished train back in action to see the improvements? 2-3 weeks? The refurbishment work is being discussed here: districtdavesforum.co.uk/thread/30090/92ts-refurb-replacementAs the Acton workshop is yet to be finished and first units are still being fitted with prototype equipment, it will still be many months before a finished train appears. |
|
|
|
Post by superteacher on Jan 29, 2020 19:26:55 GMT
One post has been moved to the thread quoted by Dstock7080 above. Please continue the discussion about the refurbs there.
|
|
|
|
Post by stapler on Jan 30, 2020 8:29:21 GMT
My mole in Epping Forest Council says that a senior Central Line manager told them in a meeting that the 4-car shuttle "would begin in March" .It wasn't de-icing so much as the positioning of disabled access ramps. If de-icing was required, an 8-car train would be run as a special. A councillor asked if the east side entrance at Epping could be opened for longer hours to relieve post WTT-70 crowding, but was told this wasn't under the operator's control.
|
|
|
|
Post by aslefshrugged on Jan 30, 2020 21:01:12 GMT
Just been to Hainault for the first time since the new timetable, the staff footbridge at the "London" end of the platform is now open to the public. I didn't go up there but I imagine there's a gate somewhere to stop the punters wandering into the train crew accommodation.
Also there are reports of problems with the "step back" room at Loughton - or the lack off. The room that some people assumed would be used as the "step back" room is currently occupied by the litter pickers who clean the reversers. I know our new Line Manager (********) only started in April and came over from Special Events rather than another line but along with the 4-car debacle it does seem as if this timetable introduction has been poorly managed.
|
|
|
|
Post by zcap on Jan 31, 2020 15:45:06 GMT
Excuse my ignorance (both with regards to the question and as to whether it was asked earlier in the thread) but what actually has changed in track layout to now make 4-Car 92 Stock being gapped a real possibility? Especially considering these shuttles were run in the past with even shorter trains (eg 3-Car 60 Stock)?
Thanks.
|
|
|
|
Post by Dstock7080 on Jan 31, 2020 16:03:14 GMT
Excuse my ignorance (both with regards to the question and as to whether it was asked earlier in the thread) but what actually has changed in track layout to now make 4-Car 92 Stock being gapped a real possibility? Especially considering these shuttles were run in the past with even shorter trains (eg 3-Car 60 Stock)? Thanks. Very little! Think where the collector shoes are on 3-car trains as opposed to 4-car |
|
|
|
Post by stapler on Jan 31, 2020 23:23:09 GMT
Just been to Hainault for the first time since the new timetable, the staff footbridge at the "London" end of the platform is now open to the public. I didn't go up there but I imagine there's a gate somewhere to stop the punters wandering into the train crew accommodation. Also there are reports of problems with the "step back" room at Loughton - or the lack off. The room that some people assumed would be used as the "step back" room is currently occupied by the litter pickers who clean the reversers. I know our new Line Manager (********) only started in April and came over from Special Events rather than another line but along with the 4-car debacle it does seem as if this timetable introduction has been poorly managed. *******. His wife may keep a diary. Thought he came from the Vicky. When did that footbridge at the London end of Hainault go up? It wasn't there when Hainault was familiar to me. Stepping back room used by litter pickers? They won't have so much time now... |
|
|
|
Post by whistlekiller2000 on Feb 1, 2020 8:14:07 GMT
Just been to Hainault for the first time since the new timetable, the staff footbridge at the "London" end of the platform is now open to the public. I didn't go up there but I imagine there's a gate somewhere to stop the punters wandering into the train crew accommodation. Also there are reports of problems with the "step back" room at Loughton - or the lack off. The room that some people assumed would be used as the "step back" room is currently occupied by the litter pickers who clean the reversers. I know our new Line Manager (********) only started in April and came over from Special Events rather than another line but along with the 4-car debacle it does seem as if this timetable introduction has been poorly managed. ********. His wife may keep a diary. Thought he came from the Vicky. When did that footbridge at the London end of Hainault go up? It wasn't there when Hainault was familiar to me. Stepping back room used by litter pickers? They won't have so much time now...
Some TfL information is considered sensitive and should not be posted here. Whilst there is no definitive list, examples include: (7a) Locations of line control rooms - we don't mind if you mention the general area such as 'Cobourg Street' or 'Wood Lane' - but please do not post pictures or maps or any other further detailed information. (7b) Security precautions. (7c) Internal phone numbers. (7d) Full names or personal details of employees.
(7e) Details of an employee's whereabouts when on duty. (7f) Reproduction of documents or portions of documents marked 'internal use only', unless these have previously been published by TfL under their Freedom of Information scheme or similar. |
|
|
|
Post by aslefshrugged on Feb 1, 2020 9:56:05 GMT
Our previous Line Manager was from the Victoria and Bakerloo, he left in April to take over the Circle/H&C, his replacement came from the Special Events Team, before that he was stations, no train management experience at all.
The footbridge at the London end of Hainault has been there since I started my driver training in 2002, I suspect it was built the same time as the accommodation block.
|
|
|
|
Post by superteacher on Feb 6, 2020 20:22:42 GMT
Have the in-car diagrams been updated to reflect the introduction of the shuttle service?
|
|
|
|
Post by simran1966 on Feb 7, 2020 8:58:01 GMT
Not in the carriage I'm currently sitting in
|
|
|
|
Post by stapler on Feb 7, 2020 13:08:19 GMT
Not in the carriage I'm currently sitting in Nor in any of the 8 I've stood in this week! The patchwork of stickers may disappear in the refurb. Perhaps... |
|
|
|
Post by jimbo on Feb 8, 2020 1:11:12 GMT
In which case, surely having the shuttles is pointless and you may as well keep projecting what trains were being projected from Woodford via Hainault to Central London previously through to Central London? I thought the idea of having a 4 car unit was that it would release another 4 car unit for mods, which will obviously not be possible if you then have to stick with an 8 car? I've yet to see how a shuttle service saves anything.Two trains to provide 3tph service including reversing times is very inefficiently. It requires two drivers and four operative cabs. The current through trains avoid reversing time at Hainault platform, and instead take it at Woodford siding. By running through they have 20 minutes extra run time, which can be covered by one 8-car train, one driver and two operative cabs. I've seen no case for a shuttle service releasing a train for CLIP project, but more as "Capacity Optimisation to enable an extra train available for service on the Hainault Loop". Is the object to avoid Hainault branch trains becoming mixed up in Woodford branch delays? One would have thought this happens through the trunk section anyway! |
|
|
|
Post by stapler on Feb 8, 2020 8:20:05 GMT
Local rumours are going round (don't they always) that WTT70 is the first stage of making Loughton-Epping a shuttle service too, with perhaps a few through trains in the peak, the rationale being they would save a lot of mileage. Back to the late 40s?
Anyone thinks that's actually feasible?
|
|
|
|
Post by superteacher on Feb 8, 2020 8:32:22 GMT
Local rumours are going round (don't they always) that WTT70 is the first stage of making Loughton-Epping a shuttle service too, with perhaps a few through trains in the peak, the rationale being they would save a lot of mileage. Back to the late 40s? Anyone thinks that's actually feasible? No chance. Would be an operational headache just to inconvenience a lot of people. |
|
|
|
Post by greenkitten on Feb 8, 2020 8:35:12 GMT
Local rumours are going round (don't they always) that WTT70 is the first stage of making Loughton-Epping a shuttle service too, with perhaps a few through trains in the peak, the rationale being they would save a lot of mileage. Back to the late 40s? Anyone thinks that's actually feasible? Nothing of the sort is being planned! That would cause pure outroar... it’ll be a nightmare to operate.  Not sure if the current track layout makes it even physically possible to do a Loughton - Epping shuttle that’ll work along Loughton terminators. Doesn’t deliver any benefits anyway |
|
Chris M
Global Moderator
Forum Quizmaster
Always happy to receive quiz ideas and pictures by email or PM
Posts: 19,772
|
Post by Chris M on Feb 8, 2020 10:50:30 GMT
Looking at Carto Metro the track layout would permit shuttles from Epping to reverse in the centre platform with Loughton terminators reversing in platform 4 (the usual eastbound platform), but I can't say whether the moves required to run back to the westbound track are signalled to passenger standards.
Having said that, during engineering work or disruption (I can't remember which) I caught an Epping-Loughton shuttle from Debden and then an onward train to London, my memory is of waiting on platform 1 at Loughton for the London train but I can't see how that would be possible without a double-shunt.
|
|
|
|
Post by aslefshrugged on Feb 8, 2020 11:05:53 GMT
Looking at Carto Metro the track layout would permit shuttles from Epping to reverse in the centre platform with Loughton terminators reversing in platform 4 (the usual eastbound platform), but I can't say whether the moves required to run back to the westbound track are signalled to passenger standards. Having said that, during engineering work or disruption (I can't remember which) I caught an Epping-Loughton shuttle from Debden and then an onward train to London, my memory is of waiting on platform 1 at Loughton for the London train but I can't see how that would be possible without a double-shunt. Trains can go westbound from Platform 4 in passenger service, I've done it numerous times. Eastbound trains can got to Platform 2/3 and 4, Platform 1 would have to shunt via the sidings. Someone on Twitter reckons they're considering resuming Central Line services Epping to Ongar. Lots of rumours around today! |
|
castlebar
Planners use hindsight, not foresight
Posts: 1,316
|
Post by castlebar on Feb 8, 2020 13:33:15 GMT
aslefshrugged noticed that Someone on Twitter reckons they're considering resuming Central Line services Epping to Ongar, but l'd LOVE to know who "they" are and "who" pays.
There have been so many rumours over the years, they would fill several volumes. If it's on Twitter it might just be somebody's fantasy idea, or an estate agent's attempt to give the local housing market a boost. The problem is, sometimes the local press get hold of such stories, and give them unwarranted airtime. IF I were Joe Coral or Betfred, l'd give very generous odds of Epping - Ongar ever happening. BUT, Epping - North Weald (see previous threads) just might happen one day l suppose
|
|
|
|
Post by greenkitten on Feb 8, 2020 14:21:22 GMT
Looking at Carto Metro the track layout would permit shuttles from Epping to reverse in the centre platform with Loughton terminators reversing in platform 4 (the usual eastbound platform), but I can't say whether the moves required to run back to the westbound track are signalled to passenger standards. Having said that, during engineering work or disruption (I can't remember which) I caught an Epping-Loughton shuttle from Debden and then an onward train to London, my memory is of waiting on platform 1 at Loughton for the London train but I can't see how that would be possible without a double-shunt. Was thinking that as well, but I imagine the stepping back at Loughton using one platform could be quite challenging to operate! |
|
|
|
Post by stapler on Feb 8, 2020 21:59:35 GMT
Of course there was a plan back in the late 80s to make everything north of Woodford into tram-trains.So it'snot a fantasy idea for the rumour mill (so much less well informed than members of this forum!) to suppose the Central lessening its service into the far reaches of Essex might one day be thought of...
|
|
|
|
Post by aslefshrugged on Feb 8, 2020 22:36:05 GMT
Of course there was a plan back in the late 80s to make everything north of Woodford into tram-trains.So it'snot a fantasy idea for the rumour mill (so much less well informed than members of this forum!) to suppose the Central lessening its service into the far reaches of Essex might one day be thought of... Okay lets go through this again Eastbound trains can only go to Platform 2/3 and Platform 4. Trains from Platform 1 can only go westbound or into the depot. If we run Epping-Loughton shuttles then Platform 1 is redundant so Loughton becomes a two platform station. |
|
Chris M
Global Moderator
Forum Quizmaster
Always happy to receive quiz ideas and pictures by email or PM
Posts: 19,772
|
Post by Chris M on Feb 8, 2020 23:06:23 GMT
If we run Epping-Loughton shuttles then Platform 1 is redundant so Loughton becomes a two platform station. That would make step-free works cheaper... |
|
|
|
Post by stapler on Feb 9, 2020 8:11:55 GMT
If we run Epping-Loughton shuttles then Platform 1 is redundant so Loughton becomes a two platform station. That would make step-free works cheaper... Loughton is a difficult station for step-free. With the width of the island platforms, the configuration of the central subway, and the listed status of the whole lot, I can't see any easy or cheap solution. Perhaps a DDA compliant new London end entrance debouching onto Great Eastern Path, to be funded by the mega-development TFL want (but which has presently been stymied by St Louise Phillips, the planning inspector?) |
|
Chris M
Global Moderator
Forum Quizmaster
Always happy to receive quiz ideas and pictures by email or PM
Posts: 19,772
|
Post by Chris M on Feb 9, 2020 11:10:04 GMT
Yes step-free at Loughton is going to be tricky, but discussion of ideas is probably best left to a separate thread as my comment was a (slightly flippant) tangent from a line of discussion already tangential to the topic of the thread.
|
|
rincew1nd
Administrator
Junior Under-wizzard of quiz
Posts: 10,286 
|
Post by rincew1nd on Feb 9, 2020 11:17:53 GMT
...discussion of ideas is probably best left to a separate thread... |
|
|
|
Post by stapler on Feb 18, 2020 8:10:04 GMT
In the 3 weeks that WTT70 has been in force, what's its performance been like? It has of course had the two named storms to contend with.
Has the Loughton arrangement worked OK? What happened about the lack of a "rear cab clear" indication pointed out earlier in the thread?
Have passengers (sorry,customers) coped with the platform change at Hainault?
|
|
|
|
Post by superteacher on Feb 22, 2020 0:06:55 GMT
From TFL site:
Central Line: Minor delays between Hainault and Woodford due to an earlier customer incident at Liverpool Street. GOOD SERVICE on the rest of the line.
This makes little sense because it’s now a self-contained shuttle service.
|
|
