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Post by aslefshrugged on Jan 24, 2020 10:27:31 GMT
If TfL were perfectly honest...
"We're carrying out work that should have started in 2015 and been completed by August 2017 but back then we had a mayor who thought it more important to spend money on a bridge with a garden on it because the woman who used to babysit him when he was a kid thought it was a good idea. We're reducing the service beyond Loughton because those stations are in Essex not London so no one using them will be voting in this year's elections".
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Post by spsmiler on Jan 24, 2020 11:00:02 GMT
re: the trains being knackered, something I've rarely talked about is the amount of times I've seen what looks like duct tape on the outside of the train covering a join between body parts. I have photos too, but I would need to search through many years of images to find them (all my images are filed under 'date taken' order - and I do not have a master index of locations, train types, etc)
re: the problem with four car shuttle trains gapping, how difficult (and expensive) would it be to add extra power pick-up shoes to the handful of trains that will be used on the shuttle service?
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Post by Dstock7080 on Jan 24, 2020 11:18:45 GMT
re: the trains being knackered, something I've rarely talked about is the amount of times I've seen what looks like duct tape on the outside of the train covering a join between body parts. I have photos too, but I would need to search through many years of images to find them (all my images are filed under 'date taken' order - and I do not have a master index of locations, train types, etc) This has been talked about many times here: less tape on cabsand will be finally sorted under CLIP Central Line Improvement Programme: 92ts refurb/replacement |
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Chris M
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Post by Chris M on Jan 24, 2020 11:41:12 GMT
re: the problem with four car shuttle trains gapping, how difficult (and expensive) would it be to add extra power pick-up shoes to the handful of trains that will be used on the shuttle service? I suspect that adding extra shoes would be relatively simple, but that connecting them so they safely deliver power to where it is needed would be more difficult. The shoes themselves are probably not that expensive, but shoebeams are not (AIUI) typically parts that need frequent repair or replacement so there is unlikely to be a large supply of them, and modifying the trains to fit them on and then fit them and wire it all up sounds like it could be a lengthy job. All in all probably not cheap. Also, I think the idea is that any unit may be used on the shuttle service. Certainly you would require enough units modified such that a full service plus spares were available at all times, even when it is the turn of the units in the sub-fleet to undergo the modifications that are the whole point of the exercise. |
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Post by stapler on Jan 24, 2020 13:14:47 GMT
If TfL were perfectly honest... "We're carrying out work that should have started in 2015 and been completed by August 2017 but back then we had a mayor who thought it more important to spend money on a bridge with a garden on it because the woman who used to babysit him when he was a kid thought it was a good idea. We're reducing the service beyond Loughton because those stations are in Essex not London so no one using them will be voting in this year's elections". Not quite. On the Loop, one side of the line is in Greater London (except around Chigwell Station) and will be its losing through trains. Loughton and BH ARE in Essex and will be getting a less crowded service from Monday. Any bribery wasted there! Babysit? Boris? Surely he had a fleet of nannies? |
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Post by aslefshrugged on Jan 24, 2020 13:35:13 GMT
Loughton has a train crew depot and sidings so obviously that and Buckhurst Hill weren't going to be affected. The Greater London side of the Loop is Bridge ward, LB of Redbridge, staunchly Conservative so very few votes to be lost there.
I'm sure there was more than one nanny employed by the Johnsons but Auntie Joanna was the only one who wanted a bridge.
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Post by whistlekiller2000 on Jan 24, 2020 16:47:34 GMT
Just a polite reminder that members' opinions of politicians, whatever hue they may be and however amusing it may be down the pub, are not encouraged here. Please avoid. 
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Post by stapler on Jan 24, 2020 22:03:25 GMT
No animadversions on any politician, mods, but purely as a matter of fact, only 12 votes in it in Bridge ward LBR last time round. Staunch?
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Post by spsmiler on Jan 25, 2020 19:40:53 GMT
Loughton has a train crew depot and sidings so obviously that and Buckhurst Hill weren't going to be affected. If the bay platform at Woodford was more accessible (instead of relying upon a siding track which is also used as a reversing point by other trains) then more trains could have terminated there, and by extension more of the remaining trains travel as far as Debden or even all the way to Epping. Another option would have been for another four car shuttle train and extend the shuttles to Newbury Park, with fewer through trains from Central London to Hainault. This way passengers would not need to cross to a different platform at Hainault to catch the shuttle train. I suppose though that this would have been easier to accomplish if the siding to the south of Newbury Park had still existed. |
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Post by jamesb on Jan 25, 2020 20:23:48 GMT
There were some signs at Hainault today, I couldn't quite read them but they looked like 'please move along the platform for Woodford train'.
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Post by sawb on Jan 25, 2020 20:57:04 GMT
Message from the ASLEF rep, they've met with management and WTT70 will go ahead as planned, starting Sunday 26 January Let the fun and games commence! Will that be Sunday 26th January, or during night tube on 25th/26th January? What's the general consensus on the timetable, in terms of are problems likely to rear their head on Sunday or not until Monday morning? |
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Post by stapler on Jan 25, 2020 21:51:30 GMT
Loughton has a train crew depot and sidings so obviously that and Buckhurst Hill weren't going to be affected. If the bay platform at Woodford was more accessible (instead of relying upon a siding track which is also used as a reversing point by other trains) then more trains could have terminated there, and by extension more of the remaining trains travel as far as Debden or even all the way to Epping. Another option would have been for another four car shuttle train and extend the shuttles to Newbury Park, with fewer through trains from Central London to Hainault. This way passengers would not need to cross to a different platform at Hainault to catch the shuttle train. I suppose though that this would have been easier to accomplish if the siding to the south of Newbury Park had still existed. But why terminate trains at Woodford, anyway? There is strong demand up to Loughton, and Loughton was built precisely with termination and exchange traffic in mind... And Woodford is a very confused and awkward point at which to terminate trains.... It was tried once before, and didn't work. |
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Post by Dstock7080 on Jan 25, 2020 22:04:56 GMT
Will that be Sunday 26th January, or during night tube on 25th/26th January? Transition Timetable Notice 21/20 is now in operation from 21.00 tonight. The shuttles are due to commence at 07.59 Sunday |
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Post by jetblast787 on Jan 26, 2020 10:13:05 GMT
So when should we expect to see the 4 car trains in service?
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Post by spsmiler on Jan 26, 2020 14:05:44 GMT
For a really wacko solution the trains could be converted to clockwork electric - using flywheels to provide a little extra movement when gapped! Its not a new idea - the Southern Railway had a few electric locomotives which were equipped with flywheels!
Admittedly though it would be new for London Underground, as neither the Met's nor the District's electric locomotives adopted this solution.
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rincew1nd
Administrator
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Post by rincew1nd on Jan 26, 2020 15:06:20 GMT
It's not really that whacko, two flywheel powered trains are in daily service in the Midlands.  |
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cso
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Post by cso on Jan 26, 2020 16:11:32 GMT
Are you proposing operating the shuttle service with them, rincew1nd? |
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Post by whistlekiller2000 on Jan 26, 2020 18:13:18 GMT
No animadversions on any politician, mods, but purely as a matter of fact, only 12 votes in it in Bridge ward LBR last time round. Staunch? |
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Post by spsmiler on Jan 26, 2020 19:16:22 GMT
It's not really that whacko, two flywheel powered trains are in daily service in the Midlands. But these are gas powered - not electric! That said, the shuttle service is fully above ground (albeit with a tunnel through a hill) and the passenger number not that great (off peak) ... so maybe these would suffice? |
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Post by cudsn15 on Jan 26, 2020 19:34:28 GMT
Can that actually be called a "train" ?
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Post by stapler on Jan 27, 2020 13:45:42 GMT
Any news of how WTT70 actually went,today,Mon 26th?
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Post by d7666 on Jan 27, 2020 15:53:16 GMT
It's not really that whacko, two flywheel powered trains are in daily service in the Midlands. But these are gas powered - not electric! That said, the shuttle service is fully above ground (albeit with a tunnel through a hill) and the passenger number not that great (off peak) ... so maybe these would suffice? I do read this post as jest ..... therefore continuing in that vein One of those would need to tow a trailer to carry the Central line ATO gubbins.  Then if towing a trailer, it would either have to run round (that wood give Wood Lane something to do !) or the trailer has a cab ...... CL ATO relies on track circuit operation. Remember those Sentinel diesels could not reliably operate tracks ... until they had a tender. And so on. I'm visualising something that will end up looking like a Hythe Pier railway train ... a power unit a trailer and a wagon. The list of hoops to jump through gets ever bigger, and ever longer to do, would probably just about get approved by the time CL deep tube replacement stock gets delivered. |
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Chris M
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Post by Chris M on Jan 27, 2020 16:01:44 GMT
Going further off topic, but when was the last time LU used driving trailers?
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Post by norbitonflyer on Jan 27, 2020 17:29:56 GMT
Going further off topic, but when was the last time LU used driving trailers? They could be found in the middle of 7-car trains on the Northern and Picadilly lines until withdrawal in 1964, but the only place you could find them being used as control trailers (i.e at the ends of trains) was on the short two-car formations used off peak on the Northern City. Apparently this practice ceased in November 1964, and all trains on the branch ran as four car from then on. (This was because a 2 car train would only have one compressor). (Source Wikipedia quoting Brian Hardy's history of Tube stock). The last surface stock control trailers (T stock) had been withdrawn by then. LO uses them to this day, in the form of Class 317s. |
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Post by superteacher on Jan 27, 2020 19:07:45 GMT
MOD COMMENT: Some of the "off-topic" posts have been relevant to the thread, but we've drifted a little too far now.
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Post by jamesb on Jan 27, 2020 22:14:00 GMT
I didn't notice any difference today. I got the normal through train from Roding Valley just after 8am this morning, and got an 8 car Hainault train from Woodford at 8.30pm this evening.
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Colin
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Post by Colin on Jan 28, 2020 0:43:30 GMT
So when should we expect to see the 4 car trains in service? A Central line train op I know has suggested it will be a good few months before 4 car operation commences. |
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Post by stapler on Jan 28, 2020 8:29:25 GMT
So when should we expect to see the 4 car trains in service? A Central line train op I know has suggested it will be a good few months before 4 car operation commences. If that's the case, with non-release of 1 eight car unit, won't the CLIP programme be likely to take longer than the three years scheduled? Perhaps "a good few months" = only when it'll be unnecessary to spray de-icing fluid? |
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Post by Dstock7080 on Jan 28, 2020 8:54:50 GMT
If that's the case, with non-release of 1 eight car unit, won't the CLIP programme be likely to take longer than the three years scheduled? Perhaps "a good few months" = only when it'll be unnecessary to spray de-icing fluid? WTT70 already saves 2x 8-car on WTT69 and keeping the shuttle as 8-car. |
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Post by stapler on Jan 28, 2020 13:22:33 GMT
If that's the case, with non-release of 1 eight car unit, won't the CLIP programme be likely to take longer than the three years scheduled? Perhaps "a good few months" = only when it'll be unnecessary to spray de-icing fluid? WTT70 already saves 2x 8-car on WTT69 and keeping the shuttle as 8-car. Quite. The refurb scheme called for release of 3 trains, and without 4 car shuttles, they get 2. So does that mean the time taken will be a third longer? |
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