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Post by fleetline on Jan 17, 2019 19:12:18 GMT
Going back to the original question, I've heard talk that basically one unit is all that can be spared. Any others will come from the removal of units in daily service as maintenance cannot be skipped.
However comments over the 378 use on GOBLIN may be more to do with actually getting the units fully cleared. Too many assume that just because a train is cleared by NR to run through a station, it is ok for passengers. Its not. There is a long process where stepping distances, lighting levels (both day and night time) and something that each class of train is unique.
One example of this is that during testing of the class 700 it was found that one of the new build NR stations that the new energy efficient lighting wasn't actually up to the standards required for when a train arrived but had been fine under 377/387 equipment.
The 378s will be held to the latest standards on the GOBLIN as its a new routes and even the existing infrastructure might no pass now if they were being introduced now. The 378s use an old DOO equipment, one GTR and the unions have discussed about replacing for DOO usage.
It's a complex process and if we are to believe the statement from TfL about it, it seems more that the drivers haven't been trained on the 378s yet as a result of TfL being busy to check if they are compatible, not because they don't want the drivers input. Just don't confuse compatible being with only the infrastructure on and around the rails.
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rincew1nd
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Post by rincew1nd on Jan 25, 2019 11:56:39 GMT
An update from the acting editor of enthusiast press writes:
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Post by fleetline on Jan 25, 2019 12:24:22 GMT
Reported elsewhere that 4 car 378 will enter service on Monday on a weekday diagram.
Two more 378s will be converted to run on the GOBLIN.
This will put a large amount of pressure on the 378 fleet going forward but it buys Bombardier six weeks more of software development.
Times below nicked from ModernEMU Yahoo group
Departures from Barking
06.48/08.18/09.48/11.18/12.48/14.18/15.48/17.18/18.48/20.18/21.48
Departures from Gospel Oak
07.35/09.05/10.35/12.05/13.35/15.05/16.35/18.05/19.35/21.05
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Post by Dstock7080 on Jan 25, 2019 13:38:07 GMT
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Post by silenthunter on Jan 25, 2019 18:54:04 GMT
Which means that Monday will be the real debut of electrification on the Goblin for passengers.
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Post by up1989 on Jan 26, 2019 1:19:56 GMT
I wonder how the 4tph new time table on the Watford dc will be effected with the released 378s ?
Or has this all been factored in?
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Post by dazz285 on Jan 26, 2019 9:03:17 GMT
the modified trains are coming from spare/maintained stock from NLL/WLL & ELL Not the DC
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Post by alpinejohn on Jan 26, 2019 13:24:21 GMT
Given earlier comments about the lengthy process which would need to be followed to use 378s in passenger service the latest TFL announcement seems quite emphatic. Does one suspect that the process has been condensed to the absolute minimum, and presumably they have secured OK from the unions to go down this route.
As for the announcement itself it echoes my earlier view in the main Goblin thread that TFL PR people will have a hard job selling this as an "improvement" (more potential capacity) when it really means one in two Goblin services have to be axed.
It will also be interesting to see quite how the free travel offer is implemented especially for people who use Goblin as part of a longer trip using other TFL services or Oyster. Quite a lot of people will presumably still be charged for further travel in zones 2, 3 or 4 if they go beyond the Goblin route - in which case they may save nothing at all?
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Post by norbitonflyer on Jan 26, 2019 13:44:17 GMT
the modified trains are coming from spare/maintained stock from NLL/WLL & ELL Not the DC Aren't the "DC lines" (Watford-Euston) served by the same dual-voltage fleet as the NLL/WLL (class 378/2)? (Not to be confused with the fleet of DC-only class 378/1 units used on the SLL/ELL) |
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Post by fleetline on Jan 27, 2019 17:25:23 GMT
According to postings elsewhere the current diagram requirements are 26 for ELL, 25 NLL/WLL/DC lines. This is 51 diagrams for 57 units. Taking the three for GOBLIN leaves three units not in service on a daily basis. For a fleet this size that will be likely to be two exam units and another for mods/faults.
This basically means one fault and you end up with trains cancelled all day.
And and remember the pool of 3x 4 car 378s will require 100% availability from the end of February until the 710 gets 4 or more units into traffic.
EDIT: Just check and so far there is 8x 710s in London. Enough to run the entire GOBLIN service.
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Post by dazz285 on Jan 27, 2019 22:22:36 GMT
the modified trains are coming from spare/maintained stock from NLL/WLL & ELL Not the DC Aren't the "DC lines" (Watford-Euston) served by the same dual-voltage fleet as the NLL/WLL (class 378/2)? (Not to be confused with the fleet of DC-only class 378/1 units used on the SLL/ELL) Yes they are but as the DC only has a 20min service it would be stupid to borrow one of those. |
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rincew1nd
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Post by rincew1nd on Jan 27, 2019 23:22:24 GMT
Are the units used on the Watford Line in a separate maintenance group to the other mixed voltage units? I would have expected them to be in a common pool at Willesden.
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Post by Dstock7080 on Jan 28, 2019 6:45:54 GMT
378.232 duly on GOBLIN forming 0703 0648Barking pfm.1 to Gospel Oak.
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Post by greatkingrat on Jan 28, 2019 7:26:23 GMT
378.232 duly on GOBLIN forming 0703 Barking pfm.1 to Gospel Oak. It was supposed to be on the 0648 from Barking? |
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Post by jswallow on Jan 28, 2019 7:36:06 GMT
ModernEMU group must have got it wrong then.
Does it matter it’s running the 0703 instead? As someone who actually uses the GOBLIN as his home line I’d rather see it somewhere in the schedule.
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Post by Dstock7080 on Jan 28, 2019 7:45:04 GMT
It was supposed to be on the 0648 from Barking? My apologies, at 0641 the platform indicated 0703 so assumed this was correct. |
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Post by dazz285 on Jan 28, 2019 8:01:28 GMT
Are the units used on the Watford Line in a separate maintenance group to the other mixed voltage units? I would have expected them to be in a common pool at Willesden. Bombardier decided to maintain all the 378's at New Cross which has started to cause issues so they are now looking at moving a few members of the maintenance team back to Willesden to carryout basic maintenance. |
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Post by norbitonflyer on Jan 28, 2019 8:06:07 GMT
Aren't the "DC lines" (Watford-Euston) served by the same dual-voltage fleet as the NLL/WLL (class 378/2)? (Not to be confused with the fleet of DC-only class 378/1 units used on the SLL/ELL) Yes they are but as the DC only has a 20min service it would be stupid to borrow one of those. If they are all part of the same fleet, there are no units specifically dedicated to the DC - the same unit could turn up at Watford Junction today and Clapham Junction tomorrow. So the units reduced to 4-car are not specifically "borrowed" from either line. (Note that the ELL/SLL services also have a few ac/dc units working alongside the dc-only subclass (378/1) dedicated to that route) As I understand it, the three 4-car units have been made available by reducing the spare capacity (which again, obviously, are not specific units) which is there to cover maintenance, repairs, refurbishment etc, without having to reduce the number of 5-car trains in service on any given day on the DC, or any other, route. Whether this was done by pausing the refurbishment programme, running closer to the maximum time between maintenance intervals, doing more maintenance overnight, or simply good fortune that there are no units needing unscheduled repairs, I don't know. Bombardier decided to maintain all the 378's at New Cross which has started to cause issues so they are now looking at moving a few members of the maintenance team back to Willesden to carryout basic maintenance. That alone could reduce the maintenance cover required, as units that do not have to travel to and from New Cross for maintenance can be put back into service more quickly. |
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Post by jswallow on Jan 28, 2019 10:11:24 GMT
On a 378 now ... lots of waiting time at stations because of the improved acceleration.
Stopping points have changed for all trains, obviously 378s had to use the new point, but the 172s are as well. Cue much running along platforms when trains sail past people (even though there are posters at stations telling people that stopping points have altered)
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Post by snoggle on Jan 28, 2019 13:56:45 GMT
On a 378 now ... lots of waiting time at stations because of the improved acceleration. Stopping points have changed for all trains, obviously 378s had to use the new point, but the 172s are as well. Cue much running along platforms when trains sail past people (even though there are posters at stations telling people that stopping points have altered) I looked at realtimetrains earlier to see whether there was a difference in the peaks. The 378 did the best job of keeping to time on runs from Barking this morning. Clearly the longer train / more space works as you'd expect - much lower station dwell times compared to the 172s. |
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Post by dazz285 on Jan 28, 2019 14:02:30 GMT
The 378's pull away a lot quicker than the 172's
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Post by goldenarrow on Jan 28, 2019 15:35:21 GMT
Photos are already in thanks to patrickb |
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Post by jswallow on Jan 28, 2019 16:12:35 GMT
The station dot matrix was struggling this morning with it. I was on the 1000 at Leyton Midland Road, which was first shown as due 1003, then “Delayed” (and announced as such), only for it to roll in at 0959.
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Post by snoggle on Jan 28, 2019 17:08:51 GMT
Well I managed to catch the 378 this afternoon. It was a little late because it was stuck behind two freight trains. The first one was nearly 30 mins late and then it was followed by a Ford car transporter train and they're huge formations. The 378 rolled in a couple of minutes late but progress westwards was a bit limited because of the long signalling sections being occupied by the freights. Trains are now all stopping at new positions as already mentioned. I think a few people were pleasantly surprised to see a "big" train turn up - there were a lot of people with buggies and cycles so the extra space was clearly appreciated. When the 378 got the chance the acceleration was notably better than the 172 - quite a surprise to actually move at a decent speed on the line given years of using the 172s. I then had a ride back from Gospel Oak to Queens Road. The 378 has had GOBLIN line diagrams fitted alongside other routes. Progress was a little more spritely on this trip. People are still standing in their old positions on the platforms for the moment. This doesn't cause issues with the 378 other than at, say, Blackhorse Road people tend to get on at the front. Other stops people were spreading themselves about a little more once they twigged it was a longer train. A few photos, taken with my phone camera so not quite to the usual standard, are on Flickr at www.flickr.com/photos/24759744@N02/ |
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Post by su31 on Jan 28, 2019 20:52:54 GMT
I just posted this on another forum - so have pasted it for info...
I took the 12:48 from Barking to Upper Holloway this afternoon and was pleasantly surprised after l number of sluggish diesel journeys to have a nice smooth electric train ride!
The Passenger Information System was working fine and had extra announcements about the weekend reduced service. There were better interchange announcements than on the 172's but a couple that only worked if you knew exactly what was meant:
Harringey Green Lanes: Change here for National Rail services. (The new line map correctly shows that they are from Harringay station)
Upper Holloway: Change here for London Underground Northern line. (No reference to Archway station)
Other improvements were correctly announced:
Wanstead Park mentioned TfL Rail from Forest Gate; Walthamstow Queen's Road mentioned Victoria line from Walthamstow Central, and South Tottenham mentioned Victoria line from Seven Sisters.
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Post by londonstuff on Jan 28, 2019 22:12:48 GMT
Not *quite* on topic but if I go up there for a ride, are there any stations between the two termini of any architectural note or anything significant near any stations?
(If it turns into a long discussion or threatens to derail the original purpose of this thread, I'll create a new thread)
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Post by silenthunter on Jan 28, 2019 22:26:34 GMT
Not *quite* on topic but if I go up there for a ride, are there any stations between the two termini of any architectural note or anything significant near any stations? (If it turns into a long discussion or threatens to derail the original purpose of this thread, I'll create a new thread) Trying and failing to think of any, sorry. |
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Post by Chris M on Jan 28, 2019 23:27:18 GMT
In terms of architecture, the only stations en-route that could be described as having any significant architecture are Barking, Blackhorse Road and Gospel Oak. Of the three, Gospel Oak is the best but even then it's not worth making a trip to see and doesn't qualify as between the termini As for places to visit, the Markfield Beam Engine Museum is a short walk from South Tottenham but the next steaming day isn't until 28 April www.mbeam.org/visit the adjacent section of the River Lee is nice on good day if you like that sort of thing though. Finsbury Park (the park) is within walking distance of Harringay Green Lanes, but as London parks go it's not that special. Gospel Oak is on the doorstep of Parliament Hill, the viewpoint of which is worth a visit on a nice day, but it's still not between the endpoints. |
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Post by snoggle on Jan 29, 2019 0:05:21 GMT
Not *quite* on topic but if I go up there for a ride, are there any stations between the two termini of any architectural note or anything significant near any stations? (If it turns into a long discussion or threatens to derail the original purpose of this thread, I'll create a new thread) None of the stations have much merit these days - so much was demolished in BR days and nothing has really been added back apart from the odd modular shelter on the platform. Walthamstow Wetlands is a 6-8 min walk from Blackhorse Road stn. You can walk round many of the reservoirs and I believe one of the old buildings has been refurbished as a visitor centre. You'd also get to see the rail line from a somewhat different angle. However only for those with strong constitutions at this time of year given the weather! Ferry Boat Inn pub is right by the Wetlands entrance and is apparently pretty decent. I can't think of anywhere else with great architectural merit. The Latin Market is 3 mins walk from S Tottenham. It's a bizarre rabbit warren of small businesses run by South Americans. There are some excellent stalls selling empanadas plus sit down cafes. Delish - just the thing on a cold day. Sadly the market is earmarked for "redevelopment" - if you like the offbeat nature of bits of London where immigrants have made things their own then I would recommend a visit if only to experience the atmosphere before it's all knocked down. |
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Dom K
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Post by Dom K on Jan 29, 2019 12:17:49 GMT
We are going off topic. Pronunciations are interesting and fascinating but if you want to discuss, please do so in a separate thread. Thanks
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