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Post by brigham on Nov 28, 2020 8:44:58 GMT
Latest Elizabeth Line route schedule revealed in FoI request here . As previously discussed here, seems plan now when central section opens, is to retain TfL Rail name for existing routes. But when Shenfield service extends to Paddington, unclear if all lines become Elizabeth line. The link doesn’t work. Neither does the railway. |
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class411
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Post by class411 on Nov 28, 2020 8:59:11 GMT
Neither does the railway. Give it time* * Geological |
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Post by johnlinford on Nov 28, 2020 9:44:54 GMT
Surely the biggest issue there becomes branding on the trains themselves - or are the Shenfield and Abbey Wood services only likely to end up coming back the "wrong" way in the event of an operational issue?
I can't see any good that once the "Elizabeth Line Network" (for lack of a better word) is all linked via the tunnelled section for any distinct branding.
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Post by brigham on Nov 28, 2020 11:09:42 GMT
I can't see the point of any 'branding' at all.
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DWS
every second count's
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Post by DWS on Nov 28, 2020 17:58:31 GMT
Latest Elizabeth Line route schedule revealed in FoI request here . As previously discussed here, seems plan now when central section opens, is to retain TfL Rail name for existing routes. But when Shenfield service extends to Paddington, unclear if all lines become Elizabeth line. The link doesn’t work. The link to the FOI is now working. |
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Post by jimbo on Nov 28, 2020 19:19:01 GMT
Latest Elizabeth Line route schedule revealed in FoI request here . As previously discussed here, seems plan now when central section opens, is to retain TfL Rail name for existing routes. But when Shenfield service extends to Paddington, unclear if all lines become Elizabeth line. The link doesn’t work. It does for me! I find that the FoI site seems to keep going down, perhaps for maintenance? I just try again later. Hope this helps. |
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Post by Chris L on Nov 28, 2020 19:53:58 GMT
The first stage to open will be from Abbey Wood to Paddington.
This is new railway and all the signing is Elizabeth line.
There would be no point in wasting scarce money on temporary TfL Rail branding.
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Post by jimbo on Nov 28, 2020 22:26:14 GMT
The first stage to open will be from Abbey Wood to Paddington. This is new railway and all the signing is Elizabeth line. There would be no point in wasting scarce money on temporary TfL Rail branding. Agreed. But the east and west branches will need rebranding at some time. TfL once proposed to do this at the same time as the Abbey Wood to Paddington section opened. But nothing changes for the existing branches at that time, and the costs of rebranding can be delayed until they are connected in. Questions raised here are whether two fleets are to be maintained appropriately labelled until such time as it all becomes under one name. |
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Post by alpinejohn on Nov 29, 2020 9:17:27 GMT
In the current financial setting I agree spend on any new branding ideas will be minimised for quite a while.
However beneath that concept lies a more interesting question of what can be done to improve route differentiation. Yes this applies right across TFL Rail services, so Elizabeth Line is just a start, but the rumoured planned service pattern already looks complicated on just Elizabeth line destinations.
If there really is money to be had then it really should be spent on service brand names.
Apart from "change to the GOBLIN line" we don't have the same routing simplicity to offer visitors who need to use the rest of TFL rail. Sometime a global brand concept is not ideal - just tell anyone unfamiliar with Britain you to need go to Victoria Coach station and get the National Express service...
If (or hopefully when) Elizabeth Line opens fully, it will eventually be serving multiple destinations east and west of the capital and we will doubtless get annoyed foreign passengers missing flights after visiting Reading rather than Heathrow...
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Post by johnlinford on Nov 29, 2020 10:11:34 GMT
The District, Metropolitan, Central, Piccadilly, and Northern Lines have coped with this for years without (much) confusion; though I agree the Overground & DLR network can be considered daunting for a visitor - though again not really more so than national rail in general where people tend not to differentiate beyond "Get the train to X from Y".
In over a decade of Central Line commuting I only once ended up in Ealing rather than Perivale when a train changed destination while in transit and I didn't notice because I was engrossed in the book I was reading.
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Post by t697 on Nov 29, 2020 14:49:29 GMT
Hmm. Having part branded as Elizabeth line and part still as TfL Rail is a nuisance for those handling Passenger Information Systems and their interchange messages on other lines and fleets. Potentially more rounds of updating needed for lines that interchange with both at the same time. Save in one place, spend in another...
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Post by spsmiler on Nov 29, 2020 21:28:39 GMT
I think that some (much?) signage showing TfL Rail is actually bolted over signs saying Elizabeth line. Things like platform route maps showing stations served and roundels outside stations.
So it may be a case of just removing existing signs and then selling them to enthusiasts to raise extra funds!
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Post by t697 on Nov 30, 2020 10:41:29 GMT
I think that some (much?) signage showing TfL Rail is actually bolted over signs saying Elizabeth line. Things like platform route maps showing stations served and roundels outside stations. So it may be a case of just removing existing signs and then selling them to enthusiasts to raise extra funds! I doubt selling a few souvenir signs off is going to pay for additional software roll outs to trains, but I suppose every little helps! |
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Post by Chris L on Nov 30, 2020 10:44:37 GMT
I think that some (much?) signage showing TfL Rail is actually bolted over signs saying Elizabeth line. Things like platform route maps showing stations served and roundels outside stations. So it may be a case of just removing existing signs and then selling them to enthusiasts to raise extra funds! I doubt selling a few souvenir signs off is going to pay for additional software roll outs to trains, but I suppose every little helps! The scrap value of the aluminium is probably worth more than the sales value. |
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rincew1nd
Administrator
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Post by rincew1nd on Nov 30, 2020 13:46:36 GMT
I doubt selling a few souvenir signs off is going to pay for additional software roll outs to trains, but I suppose every little helps! The scrap value of the aluminium is probably worth more than the sales value. Given how much some decommissioned stuff available via the LT Museum costs, I suspect it could actually be a money spinner! |
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Post by jimbo on Dec 4, 2020 10:38:05 GMT
Work is needed to accommodate the full-length Elizabeth line trains at Liverpool Street station and a project is under way to lengthen platforms 16 and 17. Stage one of the works are due to be completed in a 10-day blockade over Christmas. All required designs have been submitted to Network Rail and are on track (sic) for approval in line with the programme. (TfL Investment Programme Report - Quarter 2 2020/21 - page 36)
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Post by Chris L on Dec 4, 2020 11:45:37 GMT
Work is needed to accommodate the full-length Elizabeth line trains at Liverpool Street station and a project is under way to lengthen platforms 16 and 17. Stage one of the works are due to be completed in a 10-day blockade over Christmas. All required designs have been submitted to Network Rail and are on track (sic) for approval in line with the programme. (TfL Investment Programme Report - Quarter 2 2020/21 - page 36) This was not supposed to happen until trains were running through the central section. It doesn't say which Christmas. |
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Post by jimbo on Dec 4, 2020 19:20:16 GMT
Work is needed to accommodate the full-length Elizabeth line trains at Liverpool Street station and a project is under way to lengthen platforms 16 and 17. Stage one of the works are due to be completed in a 10-day blockade over Christmas. All required designs have been submitted to Network Rail and are on track (sic) for approval in line with the programme. (TfL Investment Programme Report - Quarter 2 2020/21 - page 36) In Quarter 2, nine-car Class 345 services to Heathrow, using the European ETCS signalling system, stepped up to two trains per hour. Seven-car trains continued to operate on services to Reading, pending delivery of new software configuration to improve nine-car fleet reliability in Quarter 3. Stratford to Shenfield: Seven-car Class 345 trains continue to operate on this service and will continue to do so until Stage 4a is introduced in H1 2021/22 when they will be replaced with nine-car Class 345 trains. (page 38, H1 = first half April 2021 to March 2022 financial year) |
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Post by Chris L on Dec 4, 2020 22:31:12 GMT
Work is needed to accommodate the full-length Elizabeth line trains at Liverpool Street station and a project is under way to lengthen platforms 16 and 17. Stage one of the works are due to be completed in a 10-day blockade over Christmas. All required designs have been submitted to Network Rail and are on track (sic) for approval in line with the programme. (TfL Investment Programme Report - Quarter 2 2020/21 - page 36) In Quarter 2, nine-car Class 345 services to Heathrow, using the European ETCS signalling system, stepped up to two trains per hour. Seven-car trains continued to operate on services to Reading, pending delivery of new software configuration to improve nine-car fleet reliability in Quarter 3. Stratford to Shenfield: Seven-car Class 345 trains continue to operate on this service and will continue to do so until Stage 4a is introduced in H1 2021/22 when they will be replaced with nine-car Class 345 trains. (page 38, H1 = first half April 2021 to March 2022 financial year) The extension of platforms 16 & 17 means permanently blocking off platform 18. This must have an impact on the number of TfL Rail (and some C2C) services running in and out of Liverpool Street. |
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Post by Chris W on Dec 4, 2020 22:57:08 GMT
The extension of platforms 16 & 17 means permanently blocking off platform 18. This must have an impact on the number of TfL Rail (and some C2C) services running in and out of Liverpool Street. Absolutely right during peak hours in normal times. However in these times of COVID, with less passengers/customers and, come April/May, longer 9-car trains, I suspect the challenges that would have been expected, will be significantly less problematical. I also wonder if quicker turn around times, *perhaps with a driver of a previous service waiting at the far end of a Liverpool Street platform for the next service to arrive, have also been put into place... 
* I'm not saying it has, just that this may be an option considered
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Post by revupminster on Dec 4, 2020 23:31:27 GMT
Surely all the Crossrail trains are going to disappear down a big hole at Stratford and not trouble the surface platforms at Liverpool St except for 4 Gidea Park trains in an hour.
I wonder how they are going to detrain Shenfield trains in the rush hour at Paddington to reverse them in the sidings.
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Post by jimini on Dec 5, 2020 0:24:20 GMT
The extension of platforms 16 & 17 means permanently blocking off platform 18. This must have an impact on the number of TfL Rail (and some C2C) services running in and out of Liverpool Street. Absolutely right during peak hours in normal times. However in these times of COVID, with less passengers/customers and, come April/May, longer 9-car trains, I suspect the challenges that would have been expected, will be significantly less problematical. I also wonder if quicker turn around times, *perhaps with a driver of a previous service waiting at the far end of a Liverpool Street platform for the next service to arrive, have also been put into place... * I'm not saying it has, just that this may be an option considered
Ooh I dunno; from what I've seen this year, two lines are not far off their previous peak loadings. The NLL from Highbury & Islington towards Stratford is generally not far off usual loading levels, but most noticeably the line from LST to Shenfield is reflective of pre-March levels of service / patronage. Even when the Central Line's quiet at Stratford, the Shenfield platform always seems to be back to normal loadings, irrespective of the time of day that I've witnessed. |
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Post by spsmiler on Dec 5, 2020 1:01:47 GMT
I'm not sure if platform 8 is quite back at previous crowding but definitely it is busy again
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Post by jimbo on Dec 8, 2020 19:10:38 GMT
Elizabeth line latest assumptions Paddington to Abbey Wood in first half of 2022, Paddington to Shenfield December 2022, full service May 2023. (TfL submission to the GLA Budget - TfL Board 9 December 2020 papers)
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Post by Chris L on Dec 9, 2020 9:30:33 GMT
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Post by silenthunter on Dec 9, 2020 9:50:06 GMT
Ask a stupid question, but would it be possible to run a non-stop service through the core at the moment?
I'm thinking this because the Excel Centre is going to be of the Covid-19 vaccination hubs for London and so will be very busy on a daily basis for a while.
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Post by Chris L on Dec 9, 2020 10:38:26 GMT
Ask a stupid question, but would it be possible to run a non-stop service through the core at the moment? I'm thinking this because the Excel Centre is going to be of the Covid-19 vaccination hubs for London and so will be very busy on a daily basis for a while. Not a stupid question but the answer is no. The systems are not yet approved to have passengers on trains. Trials with volunteers will happen in the first part of 2021. This is the video of a non stop journey from Abbey Wood to Westbourne Park |
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Post by silenthunter on Dec 9, 2020 12:20:30 GMT
Next question - where can I volunteer?
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Post by Chris L on Dec 9, 2020 12:45:35 GMT
Next question - where can I volunteer? It will be from employees and contractors. |
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Post by spsmiler on Dec 9, 2020 17:26:58 GMT
Having noted the film duration time I wonder if such a journey will take that long when carrying passengers (or longer / quicker?) and whether the train was travelling at what will be its normal speed between stations.
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