Line upgrade

Original post has sources now added.

I found this video a few weeks ago, which is apparently from Siemens.


"an iconic design for an iconic city
energy saving never looked so good"

I'm not too sure about that..
The comments section is also quite an amusing read.

Also, Newham looks like a nice Tube station.
There's also this on Siemens' site w3.siemens.com/topics/global/en/goingunderground/Pages/home.aspx

It Is worth noting that, as already discussed, that video is from a separate 'concept' design created solely by Siemens a few years back. The still renders posted of the train with the silver-based livery is the correct mockup for DTU/DTP.

www.standard.co.uk/news/transport/first-look-at-new-piccadilly-line-trains-with-tfl-set-to-sign-15bn-contract-a3865501.html

Evening standard article released yesterday.

The only information that has been released is the joint TfL press release confirming the intention to place the contract with Siemens. What comes next in the process is a mandatory "standstill" period during which the unsuccessful bidders are retrieved and may object. If there is no objection, then the contract can be placed and information about Siemens' solution might be released.

Anything else that has been seen is speculation, informed or otherwise.

I think thy will look like this i think not a blood sucking fish.

And therein lies the problem. In effect this award signals the future direction and probable supplier of all future deep tube passenger rolling stock. After replacing the SSL stock Bombardier will doubtless have been very keen to get this award as there will presumably be a huge break (30+ years) before any sizeable orders for either SSL or deep tube passenger rolling stock is put out for tender. So what do manufacturers like Bombardier do with their factories and staff in the interim?

The situation looks even more stark if you also consider mainline passenger rolling stock, where the stop/go ordering pattern will almost inevitably lead to many factories closing. If you add up recent orders and deliveries, it looks like well over half of all UK passenger rolling stock will have been replaced within a decade. Indeed to secure a slice of the pie, outsiders like CAF have all been popping up final assembly lines around the UK. Fine for now, but the current pace, which seems significantly driven by accessibility compliance targets, cannot continue for long, and once domestic orders slow or dry up, competition for export orders will be intense, probably leaving some production plants with no long term future.

Inherently we are now a long way from the sort of steady and predictable flow of orders which seems likely to secure the most cost effective use of resources. This problem extends beyond manufacturing but also affect related functions like testing, commissioning, training and just as importantly integration with track, signalling and stations (platform edge doors etc). As Network Rial have discovered if you don't use something there is a big risk that skills disappear, just witness the mess and cost over-runs with many of the latest tranche of overhead electrification projects.

With that as a background, I rather fear delays through legal challenge, possibly right through to Brussels, may prove a major hurdle to the Piccadilly line upgrade project.
    

The article only says that Bombardier COULD contest the award. That is their right under Government procurement policy. It doesn't say they will exercise that right, or are even likely to.

Somebody I know who wishes to remain nameless mentioned to me recently that the DTUP tender was actally a Bombardier/Hitachi partnership and that losing the order to Siemens was a huge blow to the Newton Aycliffe factory. They have work until Autumn next year but an empty order book after that and over a thousand people work there. People's livelihoods on the line once again.

I thought Italy was getting the work because the north east was busy with IEPs and the operators wanted the trains pdq?

Good spot with the rail engineer link - very much interested to see the details when they are announced!! If the end cars are the only ones to have more than ½+½ bogies under them, and assuming maybe a ~2m overhang for cab ends, and the total length of 107m, would a fair approximation be something like a 10.3m bogie spacing? 10.3m intermediate cars and 12.3m end cars?

Ugh, thank you, slip of the memory on my part! ~107m is, as you say, the existing length, not the new length. My apologies to goldenarrow then, as with a 3m overhang the figure of 10.7m would be quite correct for a middle carriage. Mea culpa!

If the car lengths and bogie centres are generally as suggested in this thread, the individual axle loads would almost certainly be too high with the single axle configuration mooted.

It must also be remembered that the Talgo system is (unsurprisingly) the intellectual property of Talgo, so it's incredibly unlikely that Siemens will approach them and license it for these trains given the technical difficulties highlighted above.

Whilst we are on the subject of bogies, what will be interesting to see is if they will use any inside framed bogies on the train. It may be difficult or even impossible to use them for the articulated sections, but they may potentially be used for the leading and trailing bogies - if so it would be a London Underground first, no?