|
Post by norbitonflyer on Jun 15, 2018 12:35:52 GMT
Humber Ouse (eight miles upstream from where it joins the Trent to become the Humber) [/pedant mode off] (The Ouse was the traditional boundary between East and West Ridings, and Goole the lowest crossing point of that river. The original counties of Lincolnshire and the East Riding had no land border, so when they were cobbled together in 1974 to form Humberside, a thin slice of the old West Riding including Goole was included, so that the new county wouldn't be in two unconnected fragments.
|
|
|
Post by domh245 on Jun 15, 2018 12:47:07 GMT
Does that mean that they'll be delivered with tripe stuffed seats, have whippet like performance, and be fitted with an overly cheery & chatty PIS who addresses everyone as "duck" or "pet"
|
|
|
Post by fish7373 on Jun 15, 2018 13:12:37 GMT
|
|
|
Post by domh245 on Jun 15, 2018 13:31:14 GMT
Something that will be interesting to see is the bodyshells will be imported from Germany built and painted, with Goole doing assembly (á la Newton Aycliffe), or if they will be more like Derby and put the shells together and do the paintwork as well.
|
|
|
Post by superteacher on Jun 15, 2018 13:46:20 GMT
Does that mean that they'll be delivered with tripe stuffed seats, have whippet like performance, and be fitted with an overly cheery & chatty PIS who addresses everyone as "duck" or "pet" Apparently the DVA will be voiced by John Prescott . . . .
|
|
DWS
every second count's
Posts: 2,418
|
Post by DWS on Jun 15, 2018 16:02:26 GMT
Does that mean that they'll be delivered with tripe stuffed seats, have whippet like performance, and be fitted with an overly cheery & chatty PIS who addresses everyone as "duck" or "pet" Apparently the DVA will be voiced by John Prescott . . . . Do you mean 2 jags Prescott or the other John Prescott ?
|
|
|
Post by snoggle on Jun 15, 2018 16:20:48 GMT
The trains are going to be built in Goole in Humberside apparently. Humberside hasn't existed since 1996. Goole is now in the East Riding of Yorkshire (although before 1974 it was in the West Riding) . It will be interesting to see how they will be delivered. Was that correction really necessary? I mean really?
|
|
|
Post by norbitonflyer on Jun 15, 2018 17:15:22 GMT
Do you mean 2 jags Prescott or the other John Prescott ? There's another John Prescott? an overly cheery, chatty PIS who addresses everyone as "duck" or "pet" Ee, lad - 'appen Hitachi (Co Durham) might call thi "pet", and Bombardier (Derby) "duck", but a train from God's Own County will tell thi tha wunt get summat fer nowt, and while tha gets to t'next station tha must work out werrit is fer thi sen.
|
|
|
Post by Red Dragon on Jun 15, 2018 18:05:29 GMT
Humberside hasn't existed since 1996. Goole is now in the East Riding of Yorkshire (although before 1974 it was in the West Riding) . It will be interesting to see how they will be delivered. Was that correction really necessary? I mean really? All you need to know is that it is "up north"
|
|
|
Post by crusty54 on Jun 15, 2018 18:37:13 GMT
Hope the interior illustration is a Bakerloo version.
No luggage provision at all.
|
|
|
Post by holborncentral on Jun 15, 2018 19:44:22 GMT
It's great that the new trains are going to be built. They're badly needed IMO. One thing - do you think they'll add platform level doors (like on the JLE) in the deep level stations at some point after these new trains are introduced? Would be good if they did.
|
|
|
Post by domh245 on Jun 15, 2018 19:51:05 GMT
It's great that the new trains are going to be built. They're badly needed IMO. One thing - do you think they'll add platform level doors (like on the JLE) in the deep level stations at some point after these new trains are introduced? Would be good if they did. Given that they appear to have backpedalled on UTO, and the rather empty status of TfL's coffers, I don't think we'll see PEDs or any other sort of non-necessary expenditure.
|
|
|
Post by stapler on Jun 15, 2018 19:52:26 GMT
Sps that is correct. Were not the first through trains those that conveyed the Great And The Good and new Labour elite from Westminster to the dome on 31.12.99?
|
|
|
Post by dmncf on Jun 15, 2018 19:55:15 GMT
If each new train will be six metres longer than the existing Piccadilly line trains, do they have six longer cars or more than six cars?
|
|
Chris M
Global Moderator
Forum Quizmaster
Always happy to receive quiz ideas and pictures by email or PM
Posts: 19,388
|
Post by Chris M on Jun 15, 2018 20:10:04 GMT
Sps that is correct. Were not the first through trains those that conveyed the Great And The Good and new Labour elite from Westminster to the dome on 31.12.99? I can't work out which post you are referring to, but if you mean the first through trains from the 1970s Jubilee line to the JLE then no. Public trains ran through from 20 November, although they didn't call at Westminster until 22 December 1999. see this archived TfL page.
|
|
|
Post by John Tuthill on Jun 15, 2018 20:21:16 GMT
Do you mean 2 jags Prescott or the other John Prescott ? There's another John Prescott? an overly cheery, chatty PIS who addresses everyone as "duck" or "pet" Ee, lad - 'appen Hitachi (Co Durham) might call thi "pet", and Bombardier (Derby) "duck", but a train from God's Own County will tell thi tha wunt get summat fer nowt, and while tha gets to t'next station tha must work out werrit is fer thi sen. I say old bean, any chance this could be translated into English. Thanks awfully
|
|
|
Post by stapler on Jun 15, 2018 20:22:04 GMT
This was the thread on Elizabeth Line. I was posting on a dodgy tablet! Thanks for the correction....
|
|
|
Post by spsmiler on Jun 15, 2018 20:30:23 GMT
I feel sure that some years ago there was an exhibition showing a prototype Siemens tube train somewhere in the Docklands area. Possibly near Royal Victoria station? (wild guess). I'm pleased to see these trains being ordered. How will they be funded? Are they affordable? Or would the eventual cost of not buying them 'right now' be even greater? I am delighted to see at least some British involvement in their fabrication. It would also be good to see this factory building trains that will be used by local people in that part of Yorkshire. I note that the new Siemens tube trains will be 6 metres longer than the 1973 trains they will be replacing. But how will the Siemens trains compare with the 1959 and 1938 tube stock trains whichthe 1973ts replaced? Comparable length?
As I recall, the 1973 tube cars were longer than the 1938 / 1959 tube cars but each 1973 train only had 6 cars whereas the 1938 / 1959 trains had 7 cars. London Transport placated critical comments about the consequential potential for lower passenger capacity by telling Londoners that because of the greater length of each 1973 tube car and there being one fewer inter-car gap the new (1973) trains would have broadly similar passenger capacity to the trains they were replacing. I also recall that because of the greater car length remedial works had to be done inside some tunnels at a few locations so that the 1973ts cars would have adequate clearance space inside the tunnels. The media hype portrayed this as a 'big scare' about trains being too big for the tunnels! Looking closely at the TfL computerised photo of the new Siemens trains it looks as if the way to achieve the fully walk-through feature is by making the cars shorter than traditional tube train cars. So will the trains be articulated, with 8 or even 9 short length cars? If so will there be shared bogies at the articulations (Jacobs bogies?). I vaguely recall that this was the case with the experimental articulated tube train that was built 'many years ago'. Or will the new Siemens trains have single axle wheelsets at one end and hang on to the next car at the other end? The Copenhagen S-Bahn trains are like this - its carriages are also just 12m long [end cars] / 10m long [intermediate cars]. For the London Underground tube trains this wheel arrangement would help reduce the issue of wheel intrusion above the floor line (under the seats - so not seen by passengers). An advantage of short length cars is there will be less overhang on curved track, so the cars can be slightly wider. Again, the Copenhagen trains took advantage of this possibility to obtain a 33% increase in passenger capacity in the length of a normal train of the same length. But will it be done in London? Shorter length cars which are slightly wider offer some safety benefits, eg: at stations with sharply curved platforms the gap between train and plaform can be a little less. Simon
|
|
|
Post by Dstock7080 on Jun 15, 2018 21:01:48 GMT
]If each new train will be six metres longer than the existing Piccadilly line trains, do they have six longer cars or more than six cars? Looking closely at the TfL computerised photo of the new Siemens trains it looks as if the way to achieve the fully walk-through feature is by making the cars shorter than traditional tube train cars. So will the trains be articulated, with 8 or even 9 short length cars? If so will there be shared bogies at the articulations (Jacobs bogies?). I vaguely recall that this was the case with the experimental articulated tube train that was built 'many years ago'. Or will the new Siemens trains have single axle wheelsets at one end and hang on to the next car at the other end? The Copenhagen S-Bahn trains are like this - its carriages are also just 12m long [end cars] / 10m long [intermediate cars]. For the London Underground tube trains this wheel arrangement would help reduce the issue of wheel intrusion above the floor line (under the seats - so not seen by passengers). An advantage of short length cars is there will be less overhang on curved track, so the cars can be slightly wider. Again, the Copenhagen trains took advantage of this possibility to obtain a 33% increase in passenger capacity in the length of a normal train of the same length. But will it be done in London? Shorter length cars which are slightly wider offer some safety benefits, eg: at stations with sharply curved platforms the gap between train and plaform can be a little less. Simon To eliminate the end-single doors and still retain even door spacing the cars would be shorter than conventional, i agree, maybe 8-9 for the Piccadilly. We are yet to see how Siemens will undertake this, the previous Preistmangoode arty design carefully didn't show any underframe view.
|
|
|
Post by whistlekiller2000 on Jun 15, 2018 21:28:31 GMT
Humber Ouse (eight miles upstream from where it joins the Trent to become the Humber) [/pedant mode off] (The Ouse was the traditional boundary between East and West Ridings, and Goole the lowest crossing point of that river. The original counties of Lincolnshire and the East Riding had no land border, so when they were cobbled together in 1974 to form Humberside, a thin slice of the old West Riding including Goole was included, so that the new county wouldn't be in two unconnected fragments. *Humber Estuary. There's no river Humber. Heaven knows I fish the godforesaken place enough! See my avatar for a taste of its bleakness......
|
|
|
Post by holborncentral on Jun 15, 2018 21:37:49 GMT
It's great that the new trains are going to be built. They're badly needed IMO. One thing - do you think they'll add platform level doors (like on the JLE) in the deep level stations at some point after these new trains are introduced? Would be good if they did. Given that they appear to have backpedalled on UTO, and the rather empty status of TfL's coffers, I don't think we'll see PEDs or any other sort of non-necessary expenditure. Ah I see. It's just that I remember watching the concept video about the new tube trains and they mentioned PEDs on it. Who knows though, maybe things could have improved for them financially by the time the new trains are ready to go. PEDs would be a good idea though. Anything to stop people jumping on the tracks.
|
|
|
Post by norbitonflyer on Jun 15, 2018 21:42:49 GMT
There's another John Prescott? Ee, lad - 'appen Hitachi (Co Durham) might call thi "pet", and Bombardier (Derby) "duck", but a train from God's Own County will tell thi tha wunt get summat fer nowt, and while tha gets to t'next station tha must work out werrit is fer thi sen. I say old bean, any chance this could be translated into English. Thanks awfully Certainly, old chap! 'appen - perhaps, maybe thi - thee tha - thou wunt - won't summat - something nowt - nought, nothing while - until t' - the werrit - where it thisen - yourself (thyself)
|
|
|
Post by norbitonflyer on Jun 15, 2018 21:46:27 GMT
It would also be good to see this factory building trains that will be used by local people in that part of Yorkshire. Siemens-built 185s are currently operating TransPennine services in the area, but most of TPX and Northern's new fleets are already on order - from CAF in Valencia, with a side order of Hitachi in Co Durham.
|
|
|
Post by spsmiler on Jun 17, 2018 21:07:39 GMT
I feel sure that some years ago there was an exhibition showing a prototype Siemens tube train somewhere in the Docklands area. Possibly near Royal Victoria station? (wild guess). Simon Happily I found my photos from this, It was in autumn 2013, at the Crystal building. Below are a few photos, more are at the link below, ( once there scroll down the page).
Maybe there is a legal reason (copyright?) why Siemens did not refer to an Oyster card, anyway, their choice of Lobster as a product name could be a reference to how some people feel about the system when it does not work how they expected, or perhaps (more likely?) just a nod to the fact that several cities use nautical themed names for their transport smart cards. This includes Octopus in Hong Kong China, Orca in the Puget Sound, Washington State USA, Opal in Sydney and environs, New South Wales, Australia, Snapper in Wellington, New Zealand and Walrus in Liverpool / Merseyside England. Simon
|
|
|
Post by aslefshrugged on Jun 18, 2018 1:11:04 GMT
Sps that is correct. Were not the first through trains those that conveyed the Great And The Good and new Labour elite from Westminster to the dome on 31.12.99? The Great and the Good were conveyed from Stratford to North Greenwich not from Westminster, I know because I was working at Stratford until 1am that night.
|
|
|
Post by bassmike on Jun 18, 2018 12:36:40 GMT
Negative post! The siemans train is reminiscent of a blood-sucking worm.
|
|
|
Post by domh245 on Jun 18, 2018 13:01:11 GMT
Maybe there is a legal reason (copyright?) why Siemens did not refer to an Oyster card, anyway, their choice of Lobster as a product name could be a reference to how some people feel about the system when it does not work how they expected, or perhaps (more likely?) just a nod to the fact that several cities use nautical themed names for their transport smart cards. This includes Octopus in Hong Kong China, Orca in the Puget Sound, Washington State USA, Opal in Sydney and environs, New South Wales, Australia, Snapper in Wellington, New Zealand and Walrus in Liverpool / Merseyside England I think it will just be licencing issues - note also that the exterior is't painted in standard TfL colours, and the font on that notice is a serif font rather than Johnston 100. I do hope that some of the features of it get carried over to the final design, such as the large windows. The Priestmangoode design, whilst having superior exterior styling) has got what can only be described as portholes!
|
|
|
Post by John Tuthill on Jun 18, 2018 13:12:16 GMT
Negative post! The siemans train is reminiscent of a blood-sucking worm. I'd say that was very apt considering the price of train fares these days
|
|
|
Post by goldenarrow on Jun 18, 2018 16:37:47 GMT
As I understand it, the reported length of the new train cars being around 10.7m (as opposed 17.5m currently) plus the extra six metres in total train length means that the new trains would be around ten cars in length. <<rincew1nd: Edited by original post author to add:>>Length for NTFL cars cited from this London Reconnections article Total length of NTFL Piccadilly line trains cited from this Reuters article Total 1973 stock length taken from this Rolling Stock Data Sheet, workings below DM (2 x 17.473m) = 34.496m T/UNDM (4 x 17.676m) = 70.704m 34.496+70.7044+6 = 111.2004m 111.2004 ÷ 10.7 = 10 cars (rounded to nearest whole number)
|
|
Ben
fotopic... whats that?
Posts: 4,282
|
Post by Ben on Jun 18, 2018 16:46:49 GMT
As I understand it, the reported length of the new train cars being around 10.7m (as opposed 17.5m currently) plus the extra six metres in total trains length means that the new trains would be ten cars in legnth. Do you have a source for this?
|
|