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Post by Deleted on May 12, 2018 22:45:47 GMT
It mentions walkthrough trains. Are there any turns sharper/harsher than on the subsurface line that could make it dangerous to stand on the gangway? The trains are planned to be articulated. The end throw of conventional cars would be too great to permit anyways. I believe so. Apparently they are to be longer as well, so it would be the only way, |
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rincew1nd
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Post by rincew1nd on May 13, 2018 8:40:56 GMT
For extra rolling stock get all S7's off the Met... Isn't there only one? And even then it's an S7+1. |
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Post by Dstock7080 on May 13, 2018 9:04:41 GMT
For extra rolling stock get all S7's off the Met... Isn't there only one? And even then it's an S7+1. Currently two, things should be happening with these upon their return to Derby soon. |
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Post by nig on May 14, 2018 7:25:54 GMT
District to Rayners would need cutbacks elsewhere. Someone with a better knowledge of the timetables than me might be able to say what the peak frequencies and journey times on the Rayners and Ealing branches are: the number of extra S stocks needed being the difference between the round trip time/service interval ratios on the two branches. Cutting back the service to terminate at Rayners would help, but would probably not be enough. There would of course be one supernumary S8 thanks to cancellation of the Watford extension, but that on its own would not be enough. With the advent of TfL-X-Liz at Ealing Broadway, is there scope for the Ealing Broadway service (whether operated by the Picc or the District) to be cut back to an Acton Town - Ealing Broadway shuttle, thereby improving capacity on the other branches? (It could be operated by either S stock or 1973 stock, (or anything in the Acton museum that's in working order..........................) Another thought is to do with how to deal with compromise height and/or platform doors at Ealing Common if different stocks are in use there. The use of platform doors would make it straiughtforward and safe to have only one of the two types call there - i.e Ealing Common would be served by only one of the two lines passing through. The doors would remain shut when trains of the other type whizz through. I was never sold on the concept of transferring Ealing Broadway to the Piccadilly. Building extra platforms at Chiswick Park seems about as sensible as electrifying the Ongar branch instead of the Ally Pally branch. It would be far cheaper to just have the Piccadilly Line trains which are going to call here use the correct tracks between Acton Town and a new junction to the east of Chiswick Park. This will also maintain some semblance of existing connections between stations Acton Town - Turnham Green for local passengers. If extra trains are needed on the Richmond branch then get London Overground to supply them. Its also part of the TfL empire - and will soon be getting more trains! The planned new station at Old Oak Common will offer connections to areas of Central London (via Crossrail) that will provide greater choice than currently exists. As for the Wimbledon branch, the loss of platform at Putney Bridge complicates life, as otherwise a Putney Bridge - High St. Kensington shuttle would have possibly have been the cheapest solution, along with getting SWR to reintroduce through trains that also call at East Putney, Southfields and Wimbledon Park. This would have boosted the service without needing Ealing trains diverting to Wimbledon. For extra rolling stock get all S7's off the Met* plus if need be free up stock by making some Hammersmith and City trains which reverse at Barking reverse at Plaistow instead. *If need be also run more Piccadilly trains to Uxbridge and reverse some Met trains at Rayners Lane! re: 33 trains an hour on the Piccadilly, I wonder how the eastern end of the line will manage. Maybe it will be possible with stepping back at Cockfosters? At present some trains reverse at Arnos Grove, would this continue? If so, would it be managed in a way which means that eastbound trains no longer need to queue because the terminating train is waiting for a free platform? Ideally the Piccadilly needs a second eastern branch, but I suspect that this is a topic for another thread. Simon dont think its a matter of more trains needed its the lines capacity so cant physically have more trains to richmond and wimbledon with doing Ealing broadway as well |
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Post by crusty54 on May 14, 2018 9:09:41 GMT
Is it possible that Ealing Common could become a Piccadilly line depot?
Extra trains on the line.
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Post by piccboy on May 14, 2018 10:41:10 GMT
Is it possible that Ealing Common could become a Piccadilly line depot? Extra trains on the line. Yes it would be possible. But in turn cause problems for the District Line in that they would require a new depot as there is no space anywhere else to stable and service trains. Still have my doubts about losing Ealing Broadway as the impact on the district line would be far more severe if one of the other branches were to be out of commission i.e. Signal failure on Richmond branch. No way could a single branch cope with the loss of the only other branch without a significant reduction in trains running. |
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Post by superteacher on May 14, 2018 10:43:09 GMT
Is it possible that Ealing Common could become a Piccadilly line depot? Extra trains on the line. Where would the District trains stable? |
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Post by Deleted on May 14, 2018 11:32:04 GMT
South Harrow, Uxbridge, Northfields and the odd one in Ealing Common
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Ben
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Post by Ben on May 14, 2018 11:34:57 GMT
Maybe changing the service pattern to better reflect the Districts layout at Earl's Court would allow a higher throughput without necessitating radical changes to the pic/district and infrastructure.
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Post by superteacher on May 14, 2018 11:58:54 GMT
South Harrow, Uxbridge, Northfields and the odd one in Ealing Common Then you still have the problem of trains having to run empty to those locations. Ealing Common currently supplies 20 trains for peak service. |
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Post by philthetube on May 14, 2018 12:25:27 GMT
currently no space at Uxbridge, one picc train currently has to stable in platform with special prep arrangements.
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Post by superteacher on May 14, 2018 12:25:39 GMT
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londoner
thinking on '73 stock
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Post by londoner on May 14, 2018 13:04:54 GMT
I had asked the question on London Reconnections about switching the Northfields and Ealing Depots for the respected lines, but the response was that it was looked into but isn't feasible for some reasons.
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Post by Deleted on May 14, 2018 16:34:14 GMT
Especially after the money they have spent on Ealing Common recently i dont see it happening having it all geared up for the S stock
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Post by MoreToJack on May 14, 2018 17:07:17 GMT
currently no space at Uxbridge, one picc train currently has to stable in platform with special prep arrangements. The District already practices outstabling, with one (1) train stabling in a platform at each of Richmond, Upminster and High Street Kensington. The C+H also outstable one (1) train in the siding at Edgware Road, and the Met outstable one (1) train in the platform at Watford. When planned it isn't particularly onerous to cater for outstabling - essentially a freshly prepped train starts late at night and performs a handful of trips before stabling, usually providing a last train connection. The train can then enter service the next morning and still be within prep time, making its way back to a depot or sidings that can provide train prep at the end of that traffic day. The only real constraint is making sure that the freshly prepped train doesn't get reformed to stable elsewhere! To elaborate with an example (a little off topic, but I'm more familiar with the workings of the C+H outstabler than any others!), freshly-prepared T175 departs Hammersmith sidings at 2320 and provides the last Outer Rail Circle line service from Aldgate to Edgware Road. The train then continues, in service, to King's Cross St. Pancras, terminating there at 01. The train then reverses and runs - empty - to Edgware Road, shunting into 26rd siding by 0115. The next morning, this train - now numbered as T202 - enters service at 0507 and performs a number of 'rusty rail' moves (platform reversal from Gloucester Road before settling onto the usual Circle line pattern throughout the day. The train then finishes service at Moorgate at 0002 (coincidentally running ahead of the next day's T175, which is effectively picking up T202's Circle service) before running empty to Neasden depot (via Harrow-on-the-Hill), stabling there at 0112, roughly 26 hours after it entered service (and, crucially, within the time limits specified for train prep!). As the only* C+H train to stable at Neasden it is likely that that train will then come back into service the next morning - freshly prepped, of course, as Neasden has such facilities - as T217, before then cycling around the network as any other train. *Caveat: Neasden is a 'major maintenance depot' for S stock trains. In theory there can be two or more S7s at Neasden at any one time, with one train on exam. This path exists to allow a train to be changed over after completion of maintenance if required, as well as to ensure that all S7s can be accommodated. **It should also be noted that this behaviour is the usual WTT35 booked timetable. It regularly *doesn't* run like this because of the early closures on the Metropolitan line. When this takes place T202 stables instead at Hammersmith and additional empty stock move, T706, runs to Neasden before the blockade to ensure all trains are in the correct position. |
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Post by scheduler on May 15, 2018 23:54:35 GMT
And of course District trains would still need to run to Ealing in order to access the depot. That suggests the District will no longer serve Ealing Broadway. I've never worked the District or Piccadilly but I'm pretty sure the depot can be accessed from Acton Town so District line trains can access it from there rather than having to go to Ealing Ealing depot has direct exit to Acton Town eastbound only. Trains stabling must enter from the west, i.e. run via Ealing Broadway to reverse. The plan (hope) is to rebuild the tracks around Ealing Common / Acton Town to provide direct entry to the depot from the Westbound Local lines for District trains. The plan is (as stated) to transfer Ealing Broadway service to the Piccadilly, and remove this branch from the District - but as already spotted District trains will still need to run to/from Ealing Common depot. Though when leaving the depot they will not need to mix east and west exit, they will just all exit eastwards to Acton Town. A reversing move at Ealing Common westbound platform into the depot is possible, but very rarely done as the de-training and reversal 5 minute minimum is not a good idea on such a critically busy section of track. Blocking a Piccadilly train or an engineers train running down from Ruislip would not be a popular move. And there's 3 platforms at Ealing Broadway, so all District's stabling for the night reverse there. |
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Ben
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Post by Ben on May 16, 2018 1:39:47 GMT
If they have to run to Ealing Broadway to reverse, might they just as well run in passenger service? You'd end up with an almost Olympia-esque situation, where only trains to/from stabling serve anything west of Turnham Green.
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Post by Dstock7080 on May 16, 2018 5:26:09 GMT
Then you still have the problem of trains having to run empty to those locations. Ealing Common currently supplies 20 trains for peak service Temporarily reduced to 20 while 9 roads are decommissioned for rebuilding and trains still away for ATC conversion. If they have to run to Ealing Broadway to reverse, might they just as well run in passenger service? You'd end up with an almost Olympia-esque situation, where only trains to/from stabling serve anything west of Turnham Green. Pretty sure that will be the case, has happened before on engineering works; service officially suspended to Ealing but trains still enter and leave service from Ealing Common depot. The plan (hope) is to rebuild the tracks around Ealing Common / Acton Town to provide direct entry to the depot from the Westbound Local lines for District trains. I honestly can’t see them reinstating the link from Acton Town WB platforms straight into Ealing Common depot. It is also possible to enter the depot from both EB platforms. |
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londoner
thinking on '73 stock
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Post by londoner on May 16, 2018 13:02:57 GMT
If memory serves me correctly, there is some track directly behind the eastbound platform at Ealing Common which is only connected to the depot. Could this track be linked to the mainline track and trains use this to reverse into the depot? That way, you avoid any problems with long waiting times on the westbound platform.
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Post by Dstock7080 on May 16, 2018 14:36:50 GMT
If memory serves me correctly, there is some track directly behind the eastbound platform at Ealing Common which is only connected to the depot. Could this track be linked to the mainline track and trains use this to reverse into the depot? That way, you avoid any problems with long waiting times on the westbound platform. Only No.31 Road remains now, not long enough to hold 7-cars without fouling the depot throat. Would require extensive work to fill gap between No.31 Road and existing platform and provide access. |
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Post by spsmiler on May 17, 2018 21:48:59 GMT
Can Earls Court cope with extra trains?
If so why not run more shuttle services that terminate at High St Ken? This station has two little-used bay platforms!
Simon
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Chris M
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Post by Chris M on May 17, 2018 22:14:15 GMT
Can Earls Court cope with extra trains? If so why not run more shuttle services that terminate at High St Ken? This station has two little-used bay platforms! Simon Are there enough trains and operators? |
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Post by superteacher on May 18, 2018 2:11:13 GMT
We seem to be drifting into a discussion about the District Line. Can we get back to the Piccadilly Line upgrade please?
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Post by humbug on Jun 4, 2018 8:34:41 GMT
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Post by snoggle on Jun 15, 2018 10:31:43 GMT
Looks like Siemens have won the contract for the Deep Tube Upgrade rolling stock - starting with the Picc Line. I bet that's going to cause a political storm - maybe not. The trains are going to be built in Goole in Humberside apparently. |
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Post by Dstock7080 on Jun 15, 2018 10:41:20 GMT
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Post by snoggle on Jun 15, 2018 10:46:55 GMT
Well that's just appeared - wasn't there when I posted before!! |
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Post by Dstock7080 on Jun 15, 2018 11:00:26 GMT
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Post by norbitonflyer on Jun 15, 2018 12:18:31 GMT
The trains are going to be built in Goole in Humberside apparently. Humberside hasn't existed since 1996. Goole is now in the East Riding of Yorkshire (although before 1974 it was in the West Riding) . It will be interesting to see how they will be delivered. |
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Post by crusty54 on Jun 15, 2018 12:25:29 GMT
The trains are going to be built in Goole in Humberside apparently. Humberside hasn't existed since 1996. Goole is now in the East Riding of Yorkshire (although before 1974 it was in the West Riding) . It will be interesting to see how they will be delivered. on the banks of the Humber then |
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