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Post by jimbo on Apr 16, 2021 20:19:26 GMT
With a larger new fleet expected soon, there is a need for more stabling on the line. The idea is to provide more on the Uxbridge branch for morning service start-up, reducing pressure on reversing of trains from Northfields depot at Acton Town. This will become more crucial when eventual resignalling permits more intense service, and simplified track layouts are possible.
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Post by 1018509 on Apr 16, 2021 21:35:06 GMT
Presumably the rationale for changes at the South Harrow Sidings is to provide extra overnight stabling for trains. As all trains are likely to be identical (at least to start with) and given the usual budget pressure to avoid unneccessary expense I would thought the cheapest answer would be to simply extend the existing 6 sidings so they can store two trains on each siding rather than just the current one train per siding. The initial phase is to provide additional stabling capacity which will allow the partial closures of Northfields and then Cockfosters depots in turn. The gap between the sidings and eastbound track will be narrowed, so the the first two new sidings will be within the footprint of the existing first. This work just goes over the boundary into designated Metropolitan Open Land. A second phase at South Harrow could potentially double each road to two trains and provide an access route from Wood End Road which is not part of phase 1. Are the proposed depot closures for rebuilding for new stock accommodation? |
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Post by Dstock7080 on Apr 17, 2021 0:15:58 GMT
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Post by Dstock7080 on Sept 28, 2021 17:18:42 GMT
reports today that the 80th engineering train has entered the South Harrow compound and delivered track panels with concrete sleepers to site and installation has started.
The land has already been flattened and laid with ballast.
12 points & crossings panels, with composite sleepers are being constructed at Lillie Bridge, for dismantling and taking to Ruislip for delivery to site later.
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Post by PiccNT on Oct 19, 2021 8:58:02 GMT
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Post by jimbo on Oct 22, 2021 4:12:01 GMT
Very interesting! Is there the same for Northfields? That gets started first! |
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Post by Dstock7080 on Oct 22, 2021 6:15:08 GMT
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Post by norbitonflyer on Oct 22, 2021 7:18:00 GMT
Stabling births? Is there no room at the inn?
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DWS
every second count's
Posts: 2,487
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Post by DWS on Oct 22, 2021 8:41:27 GMT
The signal box a Northfields closed when signalling was transferred to Earls Court. This redevelopment of the depot has a new signal box, is this a replacement for the Piccadilly Line control room and signalling centre that’s now at Pelham Street , South Kensington ? |
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Post by Dstock7080 on Oct 22, 2021 9:11:48 GMT
This redevelopment of the depot has a new signal box, is this a replacement for the Piccadilly Line control room and signalling centre that’s now at Pelham Street , South Kensington ? No plans to replace Piccadilly Control Room, would suggest local depot control tower (eg. Neasden/Upminster) or signalling equipment room. |
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DWS
every second count's
Posts: 2,487
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Post by DWS on Oct 22, 2021 12:56:47 GMT
This redevelopment of the depot has a new signal box, is this a replacement for the Piccadilly Line control room and signalling centre that’s now at Pelham Street , South Kensington ? No plans to replace Piccadilly Control Room, would suggest local depot control tower (eg. Neasden/Upminster) or signalling equipment room. Yes could be new shunters cabin with panel to control points ? |
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Post by d7666 on Oct 22, 2021 15:09:42 GMT
Stabling births? Is there no room at the inn?  |
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Post by jimbo on Oct 25, 2021 4:10:07 GMT
There is no money for Picc resignalling, and yet difficult to imagine new depot layouts will have locally hand-worked points as currently. What was provided at Ealing Common recently, when the depot tracks were relaid?
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Post by Dstock7080 on Oct 25, 2021 7:31:10 GMT
What was provided at Ealing Common recently, when the depot tracks were relaid? Locally hand worked points. |
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Post by jimbo on Oct 25, 2021 19:19:17 GMT
Well, that's progress! Back To The Future! Upminster Depot had central control of points when built. Hard to see money available for Picc Depots to move into the future, even when extra roads are to be built for the new, bigger fleet!
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DWS
every second count's
Posts: 2,487
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Post by DWS on Oct 25, 2021 19:44:21 GMT
Well, that's progress! Back To The Future! Upminster Depot had central control of points when built. Hard to see money available for Picc Depots to move into the future, even when extra roads are to be built for the new, bigger fleet! Not all points at Upminster Depot were controlled from the Tower, a few were hand worked. As for Cockfosters and Northfields depot the points can be converted to power operation at a later date when money becomes available. |
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Post by jimbo on Oct 26, 2021 23:17:10 GMT
Power operation would be for around 60 points at Northfields and Cockfosters combined for the outside stabling roads only, with remote control provided to allow trains to run in and out unaccompanied, even if a staff member joined at the platform before public service commenced. Not a cheap exercise!
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Post by jimbo on Mar 16, 2022 4:44:02 GMT
"We are working towards the delivery of four track roads that will stable trains at South Harrow Sidings. However, due to poor weather conditions, ground conditions and material shortfalls, the project has experienced delays, with work now expected to be completed in July." [TfL Commissioner’s Report – March 2022]
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Post by spsmiler on Mar 17, 2022 0:46:16 GMT
"We are working towards the delivery of four track roads that will stable trains at South Harrow Sidings. However, due to poor weather conditions, ground conditions and material shortfalls, the project has experienced delays, with work now expected to be completed in July." [TfL Commissioner’s Report – March 2022] I'm at a loss regarding the 'poor weather conditions'. I would understand if we'd had umpteen weeks of 8 inches deep snow but we haven't, indeed we've just had a relatively mild and snow-free winter. Materials shortfalls is more understandable. |
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Post by Chris L on Mar 17, 2022 8:19:18 GMT
"We are working towards the delivery of four track roads that will stable trains at South Harrow Sidings. However, due to poor weather conditions, ground conditions and material shortfalls, the project has experienced delays, with work now expected to be completed in July." [TfL Commissioner’s Report – March 2022] I'm at a loss regarding the 'poor weather conditions'. I would understand if we'd had umpteen weeks of 8 inches deep snow but we haven't, indeed we've just had a relatively mild and snow-free winter. Materials shortfalls is more understandable. How about the torrential rain and flooding? |
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Tom
Administrator
Signalfel?
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Post by Tom on Mar 17, 2022 9:42:52 GMT
It was, as Chris L says, the heavy rain that was the problem. There was no drainage on the worksite and rainfall from the adjacent houses drained onto the site. Prior to the start of works there was a small pond in the undergrowth near the buffer stops, which suggested there was little (if any) drainage on the site - this was removed by the excavation and the by then much larger hole created by the project team became a rather larger pond when it rained heavily. Material shortfalls have been an issue primarily around delays in procurement due to the current funding regime - though I think there may also have been a lack of experience within the project team about the lead times on certain key components as well. |
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londoner
thinking on '73 stock
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Post by londoner on May 5, 2022 23:02:13 GMT
I am surprised at how large the sidings at South Harrow will be. Has more land been purchased, since I get the impression they will be able to place more tracks side by side there than previously??
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Post by jimbo on May 6, 2022 2:13:43 GMT
There is no land grab! During April 2021 work started on the South Harrow sidings, where the former 6 stabling sidings are being cleared and replaced by a new layout of 12 sidings. These will fit between the existing eastern and western boundary fences, with two new roads closer to the running lines than the former Traffic Siding 36, and two new roads further east than the former road 31. All roads will be evenly spaced, and end at the same point. The future longer trains will stop at the end of each road, but current 1973TS will stop short, so that their rear cabs line up with that of new trains on adjoining roads ready for departure. The southern boundary is to be moved to incorporate friction arrestors on each road. This scheme avoids disturbance to open land if current sidings had been lengthened for two or three trains, once proposed, allowing the current nature reserve to be preserved. The cost of building over the Chiltern line tunnel ruled this out, but two or three train length sidings risk trapping trains behind a defective one, although requiring less pointwork. The TfL boundary has always run as far as Wood End Road.
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Post by jimbo on Jun 17, 2022 21:30:59 GMT
We now have a revised programme for South Harrow sidings with the first four roads due to be commissioned in early July and the remaining eight roads to follow in winter 2022. [Finance Report – Period 2, 2022/23 - - the year-to-date ending 28 May 2022.] South Harrow stabled four trains before these works, so no relief for Northfields works until late in the year!
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Tom
Administrator
Signalfel?
Posts: 4,196
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Post by Tom on Jun 17, 2022 22:14:42 GMT
I was at South Harrow on Monday. I'll believe it when I see it.
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Post by jimbo on Jun 18, 2022 4:46:07 GMT
Are you known as doubting Tom? ;-)
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Tom
Administrator
Signalfel?
Posts: 4,196
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Post by Tom on Jun 18, 2022 6:43:50 GMT
It comes with the territory!
On a serious note, I can't go into the full details of my dealings with the South Harrow project here, but I expressed surprise at their original timescales, which weren't met, and I'm not 100% convinced of their current ones either.
What's more annoying is I've cancelled Annual Leave to support them, and it now means I won't be going to see the last Dm3 on the Iron Ore line in Northern Sweden because of it!
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Post by PiccNT on Jun 18, 2022 8:49:05 GMT
I was at South Harrow on Monday. I'll believe it when I see it. I'll alert the timetables team to quickly produce a TTN (Temporary Timetable Notice) for WTT60 :-) |
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Post by jimbo on Jun 20, 2022 4:00:25 GMT
So do we believe HQ or someone on site? The Finance Report collects info from throughout TfL, which must filter through various levels of control, maybe taking a week to assemble, and with a positive approach taken at each level. Isn't that why it was found that Crossrail couldn't open by the end of 2018 only four months earlier, and would be delayed by nine months!
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Post by Dstock7080 on Jul 4, 2022 7:54:03 GMT
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