Line upgrade

Very interesting. Could I please ask for the benefit of someone simple like me, what this will specifically result in, in terms of changes to the actual signalling on the ground / from an operating point of view etc?

Surely this is not anything to do with ATO purely with the lack of funding and company involved - is it more an attempt at minor modifications to the existing signalling, perhaps to enhance the overlaps for slightly higher performance on the new trains where possible?

Again, I can't imagine with the current financial situation that there is any scope for some kind of thorough conventional resignalling either?

Or maybe I completely misunderstand - as I say the article is hard for someone not involved with this kind of thing to draw any specifics or details from.

Thanks for sharing, lots more info on here than via any official channels at work!

My gut feel is that all we're going to see on the Picc for the next few years will be co-acting signals or relocation of signals for sighting purposes, and then a few mods at critical sites to provide capacity improvement at the pinch points - I know King's Cross WB is one such location being talked about.

As I hinted earlier, I wasn't aware Costain had any signalling design capability, and even less so with experience of LU, traditionally a niche market. I wonder if they might engage a subcontractor for the actually signalling modifications and do the civils and other enabling works themselves.

This I know and is all obvious - I was not aware that the contract for the additional co-acting signals etc that is ongoing in the tunnel sections didn't cover the whole line. As I say, the article is very generic and could have meant a number of things, but thanks for clarifying.

Most if not all the tunnel sections are getting co acting starter signals quite a few Have already been done

The South Harrow sidings milestone has been delayed by 110 days, due to late delivery of the signal and electrical designs and extended signal installation durations. [TfL Investment Programme report - quarter to 31 March 2022]

Milestone chart shows sidings due March 2022, now expected June 2022, but is that the first four? Says "We now have a revised programme for South Harrow sidings with the first four roads due to be commissioned in early July and the remaining eight roads to follow in winter 2022" with Winter covering January, February and March 2023!

I know most people like new things, but in the case of the South Harrow sidings is there really any need to panic if they are delayed by a few months? Presumably LU have already managed to find alternate parking places for all the current rolling stock whilst the sidings are being reworked so is it really a major disaster if that arrangement has to continue for a few extra months?

The last I heard was that the original plan for deliveries of the new Piccadilly line rolling stock had slipped significantly from early 2023 and the first unit was unlikely to be delivered to the UK in 2023 - so does it really matter if they only manage to create space for one extra train at South Harrow by the end of this year?

I realise that even when the physical work is complete, there is still a heap of related installation, testing and training work needed to commission the new points and signals, before the sidings can be fully cleared for use but I somehow doubt that this will delay the actual delivery/storage of the new trains even if the more realistic timeframes now being discussed prove accurate.

In August, Ark signalling consultancy was awarded the signalling detailed design contract for the legacy signalling modifications to take place on multiple sites across the Piccadilly line. These designs support the required modifications to the signalling system that result from the new train being longer and having different sight lines from inside the driver’s cab.

In August, manufacturing company Hegenscheidt was awarded a contract for the design, manufacture and installation of a new under-floor tandem wheel lathe, which will be based at Cockfosters Depot. This critical work forms part of the overall upgrade to our depots, with delivery being scheduled from July 2023. This supports the decommissioning of existing facilities and start of construction of new facilities across both Piccadilly line depots.

In September, we awarded the concept design delivery contract to engineering company Arcadis which will enable the Lighting Main Project to begin production of seven concept design statements. The completion of these statements will enable the tender package for design and build works to be issued, with this work scheduled to begin in autumn 2023.

[TfL Commissioner’s report - October 2022]

The fact that four new sidings have somehow been 'returned to service' doesn't fill me with confidence in the veracity this report.

What is the point of adding the new signals if they are going over to in-cab signalling?

There is no money for new signalling at present, and when there is it will take time to design, install and commission. In the meantime, colour light signals and trainstops will have to do! Technology of more than a century back.

t697 What does SUP stand for,I know 4LM is the four lines modernisation project ?

Having been stuck between the Ealing Common and Barons Court signal on multiple occasions in the past month, I'll confirm that there's no new signalling. Picc service is absolutely dire right now.

Yes, Sub-Surface Upgrade Project or Sub-Surface Lines Upgrade Project I seem to recall.
It was changed to 4LM at one of the 'stop and re-tender the signalling' stages to try to freshen things up and presumably forget the previous one...  Also perhaps part of washing 'Metronet SSL' out of the names in the system.