Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Dec 6, 2020 0:02:54 GMT
No apart from 116a and 116b will be fibre optic type shunts as opposed to mechanical disc types
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Post by marri260 on Dec 6, 2020 19:48:56 GMT
Thanks very much. If this strays off topic then my apologies and please feel free to delete; why is WL116B required? Could the function for the EB local or fast not just be provided by the theatre route indicator on WL116A? Or do I miss a blindingly obvious reason - guess the outlet from Uxbridge sidings is the same arrangement pretty much to be fair.
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Tom
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Post by Tom on Dec 7, 2020 20:05:18 GMT
I'll have a closer look tomorrow, but I think it's provided for Headway purposes.
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Tom
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Post by Tom on Dec 7, 2020 20:06:00 GMT
Project so far £14.7 Million Was in yet another project review meeting today, budget is £10.4 million. |
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Post by jimbo on Jan 4, 2021 4:54:16 GMT
Any news on the work achieved at South Harrow over the Christmas shutdown? How is improved stabling to be provided there, and when is commissioning planned in order to provide relief at Northfields depot for reconstruction?
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DWS
every second count's
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Post by DWS on Jan 4, 2021 9:09:05 GMT
Any news on the work achieved at South Harrow over the Christmas shutdown? How is improved stabling to be provided there, and when is commissioning planned in order to provide relief at Northfields depot for reconstruction? As far as I know no work at South Harrow was done, the job was renewing points and track work at Acton Town . |
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Post by Deleted on Jan 4, 2021 13:36:14 GMT
Drainage work was carried out but thats about it at South Harrow
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Post by nig on Apr 9, 2021 4:55:48 GMT
I would have hoped they would have known it was there - or have the lessons of Old Street not been learned? yes, but... at least the old tunnel was found before any harm (eg: collapse under the weight of several trains) had ensued! They have started work on lengthing all the sidings to accommodate 2 trains each so not sure how they got over the weak tunnel problem |
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Post by jimbo on Apr 9, 2021 5:26:10 GMT
Two trains will be short of the Chilterns tunnel. The problem was with earlier plans for three trains in each siding. So 12 trains in total, rather than 18.
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Post by nig on Apr 9, 2021 5:49:50 GMT
I wonder if there is any post-Covid update on the future of the Picc Line Upgrade (PLU). We know that the Crossrail fleet was sold and leased back to leave money to order new tube trains. Before Covid it was revealed that only half the new fleet was expected to be built at Goole. With further delays, and the now unlikely order of further trains for other lines, will construction of the new factory go ahead? Work to enlarge South Harrow sidings was planned for late 2020, to allow transfer of some trains from Northfields whilst that depot was rebuilt. Then some trains from Cockfosters would have been moved down to the new Northfields whilst the eastern depot was rebuilt before the new trains arrived, all based on 4LM experience. Is there still money for these works? We have heard the 4LM resignalling is running late and short of money. The PLU was delayed to run after 4LM as money was not available to run the two alongside each other. Update anyone? Answering my own query, Siemens started construction of the new factory at Goole in July and appointed the first apprentices to commence studies in September. Train delivery has slipped six months due to the Virus. This week a sub-contract for train lighting ( www.sharecast.com/news/aim-bulletin/lpa-group-wins-significant-project-for-new-tube-trains--7677542.html ) still hopes for orders for another 216 trains, which includes the Lewisham extension! A start at South Harrow is still due before year end. But what are they doing there now? Originally they were going to lengthen the sidings for two or three trains each. But they found the shallow old Chiltern tunnel crossing the site at its south end, and the cost was too high for six tracks to bridge that to reduce weight distortion. So they then considered some new sidings to the north on the car park area, the original station forecourt. Does anyone now know what they will be doing within a couple of months? Ok thanks thought by the original post it was a problem for 2 trains as well |
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Post by Dstock7080 on Apr 10, 2021 10:33:08 GMT
They have started work on lengthing all the sidings to accommodate 2 trains each so not sure how they got over the weak tunnel problem Two trains will be short of the Chilterns tunnel. The problem was with earlier plans for three trains in each siding. So 12 trains in total, rather than 18. Will be 12 single sidings, arranged as now but with extra away from railway. |
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Post by nig on Apr 10, 2021 16:36:58 GMT
They have started work on lengthing all the sidings to accommodate 2 trains each so not sure how they got over the weak tunnel problem Two trains will be short of the Chilterns tunnel. The problem was with earlier plans for three trains in each siding. So 12 trains in total, rather than 18. Will be 12 single sidings, arranged as now but with extra away from railway. it's 6 sidings each with 2 trains as they have cut down the woods to the east of the sidings..Sidings closed from July to Christmas while work is being done |
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Tom
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Post by Tom on Apr 10, 2021 23:53:45 GMT
it's 6 sidings each with 2 trains as they have cut down the woods to the east of the sidings..Sidings closed from July to Christmas while work is being done Not according to the designs I was given last week, when asked to give an appreciation of the likely test and commissioning requirements for the signalling alterations. |
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Post by jimbo on Apr 11, 2021 5:03:40 GMT
Can we be clear where we are talking about since the branch runs north-west to south-east in this area; the current sidings are east of the running lines, and south of the station. To widen the area of sidings would cut to the east, but to lengthen them would cut to the south.
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Post by programmes1 on Apr 11, 2021 9:05:20 GMT
it's 6 sidings each with 2 trains as they have cut down the woods to the east of the sidings..Sidings closed from July to Christmas while work is being done Not according to the designs I was given last week, when asked to give an appreciation of the likely test and commissioning requirements for the signalling alterations. So is it 12 single sidings then? |
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Post by Dstock7080 on Apr 11, 2021 9:35:13 GMT
So is it 12 single sidings then? Yes. |
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Post by nig on Apr 11, 2021 12:43:52 GMT
So is it 12 single sidings then? Yes. That's not what the unioin reps are saying still be interesting to see what it looks like in the end as doesn't look wide enough for 12 sidings and seems a waste of natural habitat with the ammount of trees they cut down on the east end of the sidings |
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Post by Deleted on Apr 11, 2021 13:03:54 GMT
That's not what the unioin reps are saying still be interesting to see what it looks like in the end as doesn't look wide enough for 12 sidings and seems a waste of natural habitat with the ammount of trees they cut down on the east end of the sidings It's 12 single sidings from the diagram I have seen. |
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Post by programmes1 on Apr 11, 2021 17:18:34 GMT
So is it 12 single sidings then? Yes. Thanks I don't think the locals will be happy unless some sort of sound deflection boards are put in. |
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Tom
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Post by Tom on Apr 11, 2021 17:40:47 GMT
That's not what the unioin reps are saying still be interesting to see what it looks like in the end as doesn't look wide enough for 12 sidings and seems a waste of natural habitat with the ammount of trees they cut down on the east end of the sidings I was a bit surprised too, but the land footprint is quite wide at the buffer stop end, and with the 'six foots' of the sidings squeezed it could be done. As for what the union reps are saying - I think the drawings prepared by the Project Team are a more reliable source over Union hearsay. Thanks I don't think the locals will be happy unless some sort of sound deflection boards are put in. They're already not happy, and not much has been done yet! |
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Post by Deleted on Apr 11, 2021 21:50:28 GMT
Thanks I don't think the locals will be happy unless some sort of sound deflection boards are put in. That might be a different story  |
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North End
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Post by North End on Apr 11, 2021 22:16:14 GMT
That's not what the unioin reps are saying still be interesting to see what it looks like in the end as doesn't look wide enough for 12 sidings and seems a waste of natural habitat with the ammount of trees they cut down on the east end of the sidings I was a bit surprised too, but the land footprint is quite wide at the buffer stop end, and with the 'six foots' of the sidings squeezed it could be done. As for what the union reps are saying - I think the drawings prepared by the Project Team are a more reliable source over Union hearsay. Thanks I don't think the locals will be happy unless some sort of sound deflection boards are put in. They're already not happy, and not much has been done yet! Must admit it does seem tight, but if that’s what the plans say. One presumes there will be some provision for some substantial security measures, given this location has quite a history of issues in that respect! |
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Post by jimbo on Apr 11, 2021 22:22:19 GMT
Thanks I don't think the locals will be happy unless some sort of sound deflection boards are put in. That might be a different story I presume no consultation or planning enquiry is necessary, considering they are making a start on the works! |
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Chris M
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Post by Chris M on Apr 12, 2021 0:25:34 GMT
Consultations and planning permission are not usually required for works related to an operational railway that are wholly within the boundary of that railway's land.
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Post by alpinejohn on Apr 12, 2021 7:59:42 GMT
That is an intersting observation as a quick look at the site using Google Earth suggests that there is (or was) a fence running across the site just beyond the existing siding complex - which sort of suggests the land beyond that fence did not form part of the "operational railway". Doubtless that could provide some fun for the lawyers if the locals are really getting stressed out. www.google.co.uk/maps/place/South+Harrow+tube+station/@51.5598301,-0.3497095,508m/data=!3m1!1e3!4m5!3m4!1s0x0:0x8ad122fe253be21c!8m2!3d51.5646375!4d-0.352982 Given earlier references to extending beyond the Chiltern Tunnel (which can be seen at the bottom of the overhead view) it implies that LUL (or some other railway interest) actually already owns the huge area of woodland extending over the tunnel, and they have given LUL approval to make use of it for extra sidings. It is fairly obvious from the overhead view that there is ample space to extend all the existing 6 or should it be 5 sidings? One existing siding does not seem to have 4 rails along much of its length. Either way there is ample space to extend the current sidings to accommodate an additional full length train on each track without getting close to the tunnel and indeed possibly two on each siding if the alignment is slewed sufficiently to avoid passing over the tunnel. Indeed if LUL apply a bit of common sense and leave sufficient screening trees around the area actually being developed for the sidings then I doubt there are any nearby neighbours to be annoyed. Hopefully LUL will remember to install decent fences and extensive cctv cover and ideally have some sort of base for BTPB (British Transport Police) to on occasions provide an on-site overnight presence! |
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Post by Dstock7080 on Apr 12, 2021 9:59:01 GMT
It is fairly obvious from the overhead view that there is ample space to extend all the existing 6 or should it be 5 sidings? One existing siding does not seem to have 4 rails along much of its length. Currently 6 sidings each of 118m berth. |
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Post by 1018509 on Apr 15, 2021 18:53:08 GMT
Over many years I occasionally worked nights at South Harrow sidings and, as I recall it, if the sidings were remodelled, and with clearing some of the trees either side of the current 6 tracks it would be simple to accommodate more trains, although 12 sidings may be pushing it. Google maps shows plenty of room to extend the length of the sidings unless there is another, disused, tunnel between the sidings buffers and the current tunnel
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Post by t697 on Apr 16, 2021 7:31:06 GMT
Over many years I occasionally worked nights at South Harrow sidings and, as I recall it, if the sidings were remodelled, and with clearing some of the trees either side of the current 6 tracks it would be simple to accommodate more trains, although 12 sidings may be pushing it. Google maps shows plenty of room to extend the length of the sidings unless there is another, disused, tunnel between the sidings buffers and the current tunnel All tracks to be relaid as I understand it, with pairs of tracks having only passing clearance between them so as to fit 12 in the available width of land. |
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Post by alpinejohn on Apr 16, 2021 12:14:29 GMT
Presumably the rationale for changes at the South Harrow Sidings is to provide extra overnight stabling for trains. As all trains are likely to be identical (at least to start with) and given the usual budget pressure to avoid unneccessary expense I would thought the cheapest answer would be to simply extend the existing 6 sidings so they can store two trains on each siding rather than just the current one train per siding.
OK this would only allow the South Harrow sidings to accommodate 12 trains rather than the originally planned 18? However it would avoid the initial and maintenance cost of installing any extra points and Google earth implies that longer sidings would still end well short of the Chiltern tunnel.
If LUL really need to fit in 18 trains into those sidings then addding three more sidings looks possible if we can assume that all the area of trees visible on Google earth could be developed, with possibly one extra siding slotted in the dead space alongside the current running lines. This would obviously entail installing additional points etc but again should not entail any of the new sidings extending over the Chiltern tunnel.
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Post by Dstock7080 on Apr 16, 2021 12:27:13 GMT
Presumably the rationale for changes at the South Harrow Sidings is to provide extra overnight stabling for trains. As all trains are likely to be identical (at least to start with) and given the usual budget pressure to avoid unneccessary expense I would thought the cheapest answer would be to simply extend the existing 6 sidings so they can store two trains on each siding rather than just the current one train per siding. The initial phase is to provide additional stabling capacity which will allow the partial closures of Northfields and then Cockfosters depots in turn. The gap between the sidings and eastbound track will be narrowed, so the the first two new sidings will be within the footprint of the existing first. This work just goes over the boundary into designated Metropolitan Open Land. A second phase at South Harrow could potentially double each road to two trains and provide an access route from Wood End Road which is not part of phase 1. |
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