Class 710 Delivery / Entry to Service

Just for clarity I wasn't referring to the language but rather that his parents came from Pakistan.

His parents came to London from Karachi where the most commonly spoken language is Urdu although his grandparents moved there from Lucknow after Partition where they mostly speak Hindustani.

Apart from Liverpool Street and Paddington all the stations in the core section are managed and staffed by London Underground.

Crossrail/TfL is operated by Hong Kong MTR, London Overground is operated by Arriva.

The 315s are leased from Eversholt, they'll probably lease them somewhere else after TfL are done with them.

Lets get something straight. My predictive text on my Mac is set up to match my family linguistic background which (apart from English) was a German speaking area of Russia on my fathers side and French on my mothers!!!! Kahn/Khan. 

Now to get back to the 710s. Despite this extension to the end of December, the fact remains that unless NR Type Approval is granted by latest mid September (so that's the end of next week), then all bets are off. Even mid September is tempting fate in that nothing else goes wrong after that. It's most if not extremely unlikely that ORR would agree to the 315s on GOB for reasons already given. And don't even imagine for a second that 707s or anything else would be readily available.

Not sure if that post was made tongue in cheek or not, but they would still have the D.O. dispatch equipment problem, as they use a LU style platform camera with the images transmitted to the train. They would need the equipment installing, which gives them no advantage over anything else, indeed it disadvantages them as cameras and transmitters are more expensive than mirrors!

I was not pin point accurate in my recollection of the Mayor's comment. I have gone back and checked the tweet and it says the Mayor has *been told by TfL* that the trains should be use in December 2018. Therefore the noose is really hanging TfL's neck rather than the Mayor's. To be fair the Mayor would not make an independent comment on something like this when he's responding to an Assembly Member's question - it would always come from TfL. One must in turn assume that TfL have been given an appropriate assurance by Bombardier who are the accountable party for the trains.

Anyway round, every day that passes without one positive word emanating from Bombardier / Network Rail / TfL just means we get closer to a major crisis if WMT are really determined to take the 172s into their fleet. I know the 710s for the GOBLIN are the priority but Bombardier will want the TfL trains out of Derby ASAP which will create a whole pile of pressure on Arriva and TfL to take them into use very quickly. Obviously Bombardier have to resolve the problems preventing any trains going into service but that will not stop them wanting space for the pile of trains they are building for Greater Anglia and others.

I doubt very much that a little commuter line running through London Labour constituencies would have any resonance for the national media. Yes it's a mess and thousands may end up inconvenienced but it doesn't play to the same narrative as the GTR mess where Tory MPs are both personally inconvenienced and also jumping up and down on behalf of their constituents.

The Standard might try to use it as a stick to bash Khan over the head with as part of the clearly emerging Tory focused narrative against Khan that will run from now until May 2020. Even then most of London would still yawn as the line is of no consequence to them. Furthermore it is extremely easy to deflect blame on to Network Rail for infrastructure delays and cockups and then a "British in name only" train builder. Apart from the platform extensions and providing some of the cash GOBLIN electrification is not a TfL scheme anyway. It's largely DfT funded and undertaken by a company wholly controlled and funded by the DfT.

I'm afraid I don't see your wartime comparision as being particularly relevant. The exigencies of war and maintaining supplies forced all sorts of rules to be broken / bent to keep things moving. There's no comparable need for such a response now. Also there's little value, IMO, of getting all those parties round a table as most of them have nothing to offer nor any great incentive to bend over backwards. The trade unions certainly don't and they're not at fault here in any way. The only likely thing that would influence things is money and TfL don't have piles of that to chuck round needlessly. If there is a genuine pressing demand for trains to move between franchise areas then DfT are the arbiter of that and who knows what goes on there? They might opt to pause a transfer to help out London or they may not. The only small breathing space is the decision to pause a large part of the December timetable change.

It is clear that City Hall has regular contact with the DfT at various levels and I am sure they are all aware of the issues on the GOBLIN. It still comes back to Bombardier being able to provide a train that works - so far they have not done that. The DfT can't fix that issue. Everything flows from Bombardier providing a working train.

In reality there are three options that could work

- Bombardier achieve a miracle with the class 710s and they're somehow ready in time
- the class 172s are allowed to stay
- TfL and Arriva London Rail agree to scale back some elements of other LO services and that on the GOBLIN to allow the route to be run with class 378s. That would be unpopular, difficult and not without its own issues but if we know one thing it's that a class 378 can run satisfactorily on the GOBLIN. Just a pity all the 378s are 5 cars - Gospel Oak bay platform is probably the biggest problem.

My view remains that we will end up with bus substitution over the winter.

Isn't the default option "Rail Replacement Buses"? They're the cheapest and easiest to sort out. True hardly anyone uses them but at least a service of sorts is being provided.

One of the reasons the NLL and GOBlin runs are popular is the significantly cheaper tickets, staying out of Zone 1. If users want the interchange stations, then some passenger load could be taken off the current overcrowded trains by reducing the price of the longer journey via Zone 1.

No, we use mirrors on P10 at Stratford in the down direction if routed on the mainlines and there are no platform staff to dispatch. They are needed as Stratford isn't fitted with the leaky feed system.

" The 345s and 710s have different software." - I am sure your are right on this.

But the question remains - is software still an issue on the 710s? If so why - given the 345s, 700s and 710s are all members of the Aventra family.

If anything one would expect the 710s to be easier to fix than the already operational 345 Crossrail units which were designed to work with different signalling systems in place to the east and west of London as well as the core.

The 710s are perhaps closer to shorter versions of the Thameslink 700s. They too have managed to get software which works sufficiently well to get signed off for use in passenger service.

Is there something so weird about the GOBLIN signalling which prevents Bombardier simply installing 710s with software already cleared for one or other Aventra variants and then adjusting it for the shorter train lengths?

I really hope that this whole mess is not down to Bombardier trying fix something not safety critical which most passengers do not rank highly - like the wrong sort of USB or WIFI connections. I recall travelling on many trains which lacked such fripperies and not dying!

What seems most ominous is the total silence from Network Rail and ORR on what is going on.

There was a similar silence leading up to the recent admission that brand new Azuma trains cannot actually be used on OHLE and will have to run on diesel as some of the East Coast signalling system was bought on the cheap in BR days and fixing that will take years.

Yes we have seen a few freight movements on GOBLIN which prove the juice is on, but it seems strange that 710s cannot run yet 700s can.

As they say the truth will out - eventually. In the meantime GOBLIN users may need to wrap up warm this winter as they are probably going to be standing around waiting for buses.

The only reason 9-car 345s are not in public service is there that there is nowhere to reverse them at present! On the GE the platforms 16-18 at LST are not long enough for 9-car 345s. As they are currently not authorised on the Heathrow branch for signalling comparability reasons and as NR has yet to declare the bay at H&H as ready for 9-car 345 operation then 7-cars have to do! The moment the H&H bay is cleared for 9-car there is plenty in Old Oak just ready to go! 9-cars are running of course but only on test and driver familiarisation between Old Oak and Reading. Some have also run into Paddington High Level for the same purposes. With the 710s the issues are Train Control Software and the Camera system. Once these are resolved then mileage accumulation will be required plus gauging plus driver route and traction training plus hopefully no issues with signal interference................all by Christmas. This Christmas by the way....

Rail magazine are reporting that testing will start on the mainline at the end of this month.

Article on their website.

They can move under their own power on the network!



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