rincew1nd
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Post by rincew1nd on Jul 18, 2018 17:31:35 GMT
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Chris M
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Post by Chris M on Jul 18, 2018 18:47:37 GMT
Presumably "TCS" is the "traction control system" - anti-wheelslip and similar.
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Post by domh245 on Jul 18, 2018 18:50:41 GMT
Could quite easily also be the train control (and management) system
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Post by fleetline on Jul 26, 2018 9:46:18 GMT
TCS is this case is the Train Control System. The 710 use a completely new system built just for the Aventra fleet (the 345 use the older system developed for the 387s) and it’s been remarked it’s quite buggy at present.
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rincew1nd
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Post by rincew1nd on Jul 31, 2018 9:23:25 GMT
I came across this tweet before, I assume this is the interior of a 710: Click/tap here if embedded tweet fails to display. |
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Post by stapler on Jul 31, 2018 14:12:13 GMT
I came across this tweet before, I assume this is the interior of a 710: Click/tap here if embedded tweet fails to display. Thought the 710s (at least on the Chingford-Enfields) we supposed to have some transverse, as well as longitudinal, seating? |
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Post by jukes on Jul 31, 2018 18:00:39 GMT
Originally yes but TfL changed their minds and all 710s will be longitudinal.
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Post by AndrewPSSP on Jul 31, 2018 18:31:20 GMT
Originally yes but TfL changed their minds and all 710s will be longitudinal. Oh come on! The S8 have a mixture of both longitudinal and traverse seating and, in all the times I've been on the Met during the peaks, it's never posed a problem - in my eyes anyway. Maybe it's because I usually go on it during my holidays when everyone's on their day off!  |
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Post by 35b on Jul 31, 2018 20:52:02 GMT
Originally yes but TfL changed their minds and all 710s will be longitudinal. Oh come on! The S8 have a mixture of both longitudinal and traverse seating and, in all the times I've been on the Met during the peaks, it's never posed a problem - in my eyes anyway. Maybe it's because I usually go on it during my holidays when everyone's on their day off! As a commuter boarding at Kings Cross in the peak, I much prefer the S7s. |
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Post by Deleted on Aug 1, 2018 2:29:34 GMT
Oh come on! The S8 have a mixture of both longitudinal and traverse seating and, in all the times I've been on the Met during the peaks, it's never posed a problem - in my eyes anyway. Maybe it's because I usually go on it during my holidays when everyone's on their day off! As a commuter boarding at Kings Cross in the peak, I much prefer the S7s. The s8 stock has higher capacity though. About 200 more if I remember correctly. I think the 710s on the lines out of Liverpool street should've got some transverse seating as planned, in my opinion, maximum journey times are long enough for it to be a sensible choice. |
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Post by 35b on Aug 1, 2018 6:17:29 GMT
As a commuter boarding at Kings Cross in the peak, I much prefer the S7s. The s8 stock has higher capacity though. About 200 more if I remember correctly. I think the 710s on the lines out of Liverpool street should've got some transverse seating as planned, in my opinion, maximum journey times are long enough for it to be a sensible choice. I agree on longer runs. But if you just want to clear the crowd at a platform, the longitudinal seats work better. |
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Post by norbitonflyer on Aug 1, 2018 6:55:00 GMT
The s8 stock has higher capacity though. About 200 more if I remember correctly 865 and 1003 respectively, according to Mr Wiki. Almost exactly in the ratio of 7:8, unsurprisingly. |
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Post by londoner on Aug 2, 2018 12:57:59 GMT
In that picture above, why are all the panels and floor protected from dust/ light damage, but not the seats?
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Post by alpinejohn on Aug 2, 2018 17:43:02 GMT
Originally yes but TfL changed their minds and all 710s will be longitudinal. Oh come on! The S8 have a mixture of both longitudinal and traverse seating and, in all the times I've been on the Met during the peaks, it's never posed a problem - in my eyes anyway. Maybe it's because I usually go on it during my holidays when everyone's on their day off! However when you use the Met S8s often, you will probably have spotted how that the transverse seats seem a lot grubbier than the longitudinal ones. Indeed I now avoid the transverse seats as they continue to suffer from the age old issue of feet on seats, whilst you need to be something of a giraffe to put your feet onto opposing longitudinal seats. Sadly so many people young and not so young, feel that it is their absolute right to put their mucky shoes onto seats and take great offence if you dare to express your disapproval. I am sure if you really enjoy the transverse seats in the S8s you will also find remnants of chewing gum to sit on. |
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Post by norbitonflyer on Aug 12, 2018 19:06:17 GMT
Several of them sitting in Willesden depot when I passed it this afternoon.
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rincew1nd
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Post by rincew1nd on Sept 6, 2018 12:37:57 GMT
Click/tap here if embedded tweet fails to display. |
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Post by Deleted on Sept 6, 2018 13:23:40 GMT
Well, at least some relief for GOBLIN punters...
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Post by jukes on Sept 6, 2018 15:19:43 GMT
Well, at least some relief for GOBLIN punters... Not really. They had already indicated that they had extended till end of November so this just gives them 4-weeks extra. Unless NR issues Type Approval for the 710s in the next 14-days an extra month lease time makes no difference and that assumes that fault free running then happens without incident, that there are no signal interference issues, no further software issues, no gauging issues and that there is sufficient time to route and traction train sufficient drivers whilst still running full services, so apart from that................... |
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Post by Deleted on Sept 6, 2018 16:38:12 GMT
It means the lease can be extended.
And if it was extended once - it probably can be extended again. Which means no bustitution.
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Post by snoggle on Sept 6, 2018 21:39:40 GMT
Well, at least some relief for GOBLIN punters... Not really. They had already indicated that they had extended till end of November so this just gives them 4-weeks extra. Unless NR issues Type Approval for the 710s in the next 14-days an extra month lease time makes no difference and that assumes that fault free running then happens without incident, that there are no signal interference issues, no further software issues, no gauging issues and that there is sufficient time to route and traction train sufficient drivers whilst still running full services, so apart from that................... Well that "extension" aligns with a tweet from the user group that referenced the Mayor telling Jennette Arnold AM that the 710s would be "in service by December". Like you I am deeply deeply sceptical about all of this. Class 710s have been physically complete *for months* and one has yet to turn a wheel under its own power on normal NR metals. Unless a breakthrough in NR type approval is imminent then we're not getting electric trains on the GOBLIN this year. That will mean at least a year's delay in getting the stock working and one heck of a commercial dispute between TfL and Bombardier. At some point West Midlands Trains will put their foot down about wanting the 172s transferred which means, IMO, the risk of GOBLIN bus substitution remains a real possibility. |
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Post by jukes on Sept 7, 2018 12:41:39 GMT
Not really. They had already indicated that they had extended till end of November so this just gives them 4-weeks extra. Unless NR issues Type Approval for the 710s in the next 14-days an extra month lease time makes no difference and that assumes that fault free running then happens without incident, that there are no signal interference issues, no further software issues, no gauging issues and that there is sufficient time to route and traction train sufficient drivers whilst still running full services, so apart from that................... Well that "extension" aligns with a tweet from the user group that referenced the Mayor telling Jennette Arnold AM that the 710s would be "in service by December". Like you I am deeply deeply sceptical about all of this. Class 710s have been physically complete *for months* and one has yet to turn a wheel under its own power on normal NR metals. Unless a breakthrough in NR type approval is imminent then we're not getting electric trains on the GOBLIN this year. That will mean at least a year's delay in getting the stock working and one heck of a commercial dispute between TfL and Bombardier. At some point West Midlands Trains will put their foot down about wanting the 172s transferred which means, IMO, the risk of GOBLIN bus substitution remains a real possibility. WMT have already indicated that they probably won't extend beyond 31 December and would actually like the trains a couple of weeks or so before Christmas. The Mayor was very silly to have said that and only demonstrates his naivety which is surprising considering he is supposedly not a political amateur. Unfortunately Kahn has demonstrated that this job is beyond him, whilst BoJo demonstrated that real life was totally beyond him. Livingstone just demonstrated............... The 710 programme is only critical at the moment for the GOB. All the other lines waiting for 710s (DC, West Anglia) have trains that can continue to run for some considerable time albeit with financial implications. |
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Post by norbitonflyer on Sept 7, 2018 13:23:36 GMT
What are WMT planning to use the 172s for? If they will displace something else, where are the displaced units destined for? Presumably, somewhere down the line (!) there are some passengers who are going to have to put up with short formations or Pacers for longer than planned.
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Post by jukes on Sept 7, 2018 14:47:40 GMT
As far as I know WMT have to transfer some trains to EMT. Someone mentioned its the 8 Class 153s.
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Post by xplaistow on Sept 7, 2018 16:21:20 GMT
Out of interest, how long would you estimate it will take between NR giving type approval and the trains actually running in service (bearing in mind the possibility of further delay)?
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Chris M
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Post by Chris M on Sept 7, 2018 16:33:00 GMT
Well the minimum time will be the longest of the time taken to: - Identify and resolve any gauging issues
- Identify and resolve any interference issues with signalling, etc
- Train enough drivers on the stock
- Train enough maintenance people on the stock
Given that once approval is given I expect the stock will all arrive in London pretty quickly (unless there are depot capacity issues?), I guess that the four things will be able to run largely in parallel, but I can't put a figure on any of them. |
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rincew1nd
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Post by rincew1nd on Sept 7, 2018 20:17:30 GMT
Unfortunately Kahn has demonstrated that this job is beyond him, whilst BoJo demonstrated that real life was totally beyond him. Livingstone just demonstrated................ |
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Post by stapler on Sept 7, 2018 21:04:46 GMT
It is surely not beyond the wit of woman/man to arrange for some redundant 315s to do the GOBLIN, if necessary by getting some drivers trained additionally on it. The rest is just accountancy and redrawing a couple of contracts....The 315s are being shed at 2 a week, aren't they?
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Post by domh245 on Sept 7, 2018 21:34:28 GMT
315s aren't being shed from TfL rail services because the 345s aren't up to scratch yet. They also can't be used on the GOBLIN because they do not have any onboard Driver Only Dispatch equipment, nor is there any Dispatch Equipment on the platforms of the GOBLIN. You'd have to install one of those (preference being for onboard) to enable them to run, or alternatively you could make them operate as guarded services, but LO haven't had guards for a while now.
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Post by aslefshrugged on Sept 7, 2018 22:31:55 GMT
Unfortunately you've demonstrated that spelling his name is beyond you. Its Khan (Pakistani) not Kahn(German).
Khan inherited a mess from Boris and a TfL that has been crippled by the withdrawal of Treasury funding by George Osborne making London the only capital city in Western Europe that doesn't get financial support from the national government. Instead of Sadiq we could have had Zac Goldsmith who declared that buses would be redundant by 2018 because we'd all be driving electric cars. Yeah, there's a bloke with a good grasp of transport in London...
Boris gave us the Boris bus, the cable car, closed the ticket offices despite promising they'd stay open, cycle superhighways that weren't properly planned and £30m of TfL money wasted on the Garden Bridge.
Ken gave us London Overground, increased bus services, expanded Oyster cards to Network Rail and would have given us the cycle hire scheme except he'd have gone with the cheaper Paris Velib rather the Montreal Bixi system.
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Chris M
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Post by Chris M on Sept 7, 2018 22:53:26 GMT
315s aren't being shed from TfL rail services because the 345s aren't up to scratch yet. They also can't be used on the GOBLIN because they do not have any onboard Driver Only Dispatch equipment, nor is there any Dispatch Equipment on the platforms of the GOBLIN. You'd have to install one of those (preference being for onboard) to enable them to run, or alternatively you could make them operate as guarded services, but LO haven't had guards for a while now. You would also need to train drivers and maintenance staff, get route clearance (gauging, interference, etc), which is not going to be quick or cheap. Obviously there will come a point when it is worth doing all that and installing DOO equipment*, but given what was said based on the planned timescales, the tipping point is likely going to be somewhere north of 6 months. *Alternatively the 707s are coming off lease shortly (AIUI), are DOO equipped and are designed to be easily convertible to AC operation, and may need shortening by 1-2 cards. I don't know how long this would take or how much it would cost, but if there is a very significant delay on the 710s it might be better than 315s. Still not easy though. |
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