Class 710 Delivery / Entry to Service

two TFL class 317s seen passing Hemel Hempstead just now, heading back towards London, so would appear these are being brought out of storage to increase service capacity.


Looking at Realtime Train data, from Northampton sidings to Ilford TMD

317710 & 317709

And I, for one, have never been happier!

A 317 service was always a disappointment, and not something to look forward too.

I will be sad once the 315s finish though.

Let’s open the champagne!

The need for PRM modifications made it more attractive to get rid of them first. 317/8s weren’t even allowed to run single, had to be coupled to a /7 to make sure the formation half complied with the new regulations which brought its own set of challenges when allocating stock to unit diagrans. 315s are fine...their issue will be exams and mileage.

The service being run by soley 710s is no longer dependent on available units as they are around in abundance and the ones that aren’t here can be ready within weeks, its more to do with available drivers.. when training kickstarts the 315s will be gone within the blink of an eye.

The most recent Bakerloo upgrade service proposal I have is dated 2013 but, since more recent documents are withheld by TfL FoI, for interest (in comparison with current maximum tph in brackets) the proposal was peak service 27tph (22), with 15tph (13) reversing at Queens Park, 6tph (3) at Stonebridge Park, and 6tph (6) at Harrow & Wealdstone, so no improvement north of Stonebridge Park but extra capacity from walk-through trains.

For the sake of not confusing people.... 720* ;-)

Probably was Greater Anglia are taking delivery of a lot of their 720s now Although none are in service.. it’s essentially 100mph 5 car version of the 710, so you wernt far off lol

The DfT’s Dispensation Matrix is the best way to explain it, considering that is the ‘simple’ answer of why they could not work singly.

assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/855144/appendix-a-class-317-prm-tsi-dispensation-matrix.pdf

Essentially, the /7s were more compliant - priority seating and wheelchair spaces being the primary aspect.

That will need re-signalling of the line north of Queen's Park and/or a solution to the time taken checking trains are empty before reversal at Stonebridge Park. The timetable already struggles as it is, since the increase of London Overground to 4 tph. The old timetable worked fairly well (except for the frequent late running of northbound Bakerloo trains), with 3tph Overground, 6tph Harrow and 3tph Stonebridge Park; giving a five minute interval north of Queen's Park. Addition of the extra Overground train broke the pattern and now the Bakerloo is no longer a regular ten minute interval at Harrow and the Overground / Stonebridge Park services don't fit nicely in the middle. Adjustment of Willesden Junction, to allow Bakerloo trains to reverse in the bay there, might be a better solution than adding another 3 tph to Stonebridge Park.

117/107 accepted, 12 units total available for service.

Joining implied they were on site (either being tested/used for training,most of the units used for training arent actually cleared for passenger use..or actually in service)

Further upstream you will see a post with a list of 10 numbers...117 was already here.

At that time only around half were cleared for passenger use. In summary 12 units are available to be used in service although there are slightly more on site.

NLL/WLL (The two are one and the same, even prior to the current situation the various shorts to Willesden don't run aside from the extremes of service) will also see a handful of 710s in 5-car form to displace additional 378s to the ELL (which also incorporates the SLL, again one and the same).

Chingford/Enfield/Cheshunt are one and the same and diagrams interwork between all three branches throughout the day. Should probably be classed as 'West Anglia'.

No 710s on Romford-Upminster yet.

No dates for full 710 workings on either West Anglia or the DC, and unlikely to happen until more clarity appears surrounding current events.

378s will be running significantly longer than "2021+", the bulk of the fleet is barely 10 years old! There are no further changes on the horizon for the Overground once 710 rollout is complete.

The North London Line / West London Line will be getting six 5 car 710s for service uplift, and so some 378s can be cascaded to the ELL for service uplift there too. It seems likely they will cover the Richmond-Stratford service given they are fitting TPWS on the Richmond branch. I haven't figured out whether the 710s will cover all the Richmond-Stratford diagrams or just some of them (though visually distinct trains would certainly make it nice and easy for the passengers!).