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Post by goldenarrow on Mar 19, 2019 22:14:28 GMT
Dual voltage unit 710 269 was out on the GOBLIN yesterday.
There appeared to be some kind of cardboard box style wrapping around a few axles, any idea what that may be about?
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Post by snoggle on Mar 20, 2019 0:24:48 GMT
Dual voltage unit 710 269 was out on the GOBLIN yesterday. There appeared to be some kind of cardboard box style wrapping around a few axles, any idea what that may be about? Probably to stop the rats and water voles on the Walthamstow Wetlands from eating the under train cables if one breaks down between Blackhorse Rd and S Tottenham.  (A joke btw - in case anyone dares to take me seriously.) No idea otherwise, first I've heard of it. |
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Post by rincew1nd on Mar 20, 2019 0:34:22 GMT
A correspondent at Tours by Train spotted a cl710 skulking at Crewe earlier today: (Embedded tweet above) |
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Post by snoggle on Mar 20, 2019 20:19:07 GMT
And just to illustrate the dangers of joking about Walthamstow Wetlands wildlife it seems to be the case that one of the GOBLIN AM peak workings was delayed by a swan on the track this morning. Happened between Blackhorse Rd and S Tottenham.    Two class 710s were apparently out and about on the GOBLIN this morning - one of them running in a path that was a former timetabled slot now empty through lack of trains.  No surprise to see 710/1s at Crewe. Apparently there are some there and others at Old Dalby. |
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Post by cudsn15 on Mar 21, 2019 8:23:32 GMT
And just to illustrate the dangers of joking about Walthamstow Wetlands wildlife it seems to be the case that one of the GOBLIN AM peak workings was delayed by a swan on the track this morning. Happened between Blackhorse Rd and S Tottenham. Two class 710s were apparently out and about on the GOBLIN this morning - one of them running in a path that was a former timetabled slot now empty through lack of trains. No surprise to see 710/1s at Crewe. Apparently there are some there and others at Old Dalby. The "swan excuse" has happened before - you have to believe them I suppose - just like their "Good Service on all lines" announcements. |
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Post by norbitonflyer on Mar 21, 2019 8:36:26 GMT
I can quite believe the Swan excuse - I've seen it happen on Kingston railway bridge. Apparently they can mistake a shiny surface (railway, or wet road) for water. But swans can only take to the air by frantic paddling across water, so having landed, they are stuck.
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Post by whistlekiller2000 on Mar 21, 2019 19:56:13 GMT
I can quite believe the Swan excuse - I've seen it happen on Kingston railway bridge. Apparently they can mistake a shiny surface (railway, or wet road) for water. But swans can only take to the air by frantic paddling across water, so having landed, they are stuck. Swans are murder when they accidentally grab a fishing fly intended for trout. I once nearly lost an entire fly-line and 40 yards of backing trying to control an irate swan. The fact that I was in a small inflatable craft known as a float-tube made matters worse as the swan drew closer, regarding me as another swan, and one that wasn't welcome in his/her vacinity. I was extremely lucky to manage to grab it in a decent enough hold to prevent damage to either me or the bird itself, remove the fly from its beak and release it in a flurry of indignation.........this is what's supposed to happen......😂  |
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Post by londonstuff on Mar 22, 2019 1:20:56 GMT
Which one are you, Whistlekiller?  Note mainly to self: Back to 710s, please. |
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Post by greatkingrat on Mar 25, 2019 15:20:06 GMT
The DC line is supposed to be going up to 4tph from the new timetable change (19th May), however at present there aren't any spare units to run it. So the current plan is to run an uneven 3tph (15 28 45 from Euston) with a 30 minute gap in service. The 4th path (58) is currently in the system as runs as required and will be available for driver training on 710s until enough are ready to run a full service.
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Post by snoggle on Mar 25, 2019 17:00:02 GMT
The DC line is supposed to be going up to 4tph from the new timetable change (19th May), however at present there aren't any spare units to run it. So the current plan is to run an uneven 3tph (15 28 45 from Euston) with a 30 minute gap in service. The 4th path (58) is currently in the system as runs as required and will be available for driver training on 710s until enough are ready to run a full service. I know that the DC is not the easiet route to run clockface headways on but 13, 17 and 30 min gaps are appalling. I see the value of a training path but this is a step backwards for passengers from the pure x20 headway that is run today. I don't understand how ARL have managed to create such appalling timetables on the NLL and now the DC. It all used to be nice and regular with sensible, regular headways. |
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Post by greatkingrat on Mar 25, 2019 18:09:47 GMT
It's not a deliberate plan as such. The idea was that sufficient 710s would be in service by now to allow a regular 4tph service from May. The problem is that because of Euston constraints and the Bakerloo Line you can't just go back to the old timetable of every 20 minutes.
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Post by spsmiler on Mar 26, 2019 22:04:02 GMT
Maybe this would offer a solution. Shuttle services Euston - Willesden and Harrow & W - Watford Junction.
My hope is the freeing up of at least 378 to increase services the service frequency where the 378s remain operating.
Simon
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Post by rincew1nd on Apr 12, 2019 13:36:45 GMT
The cl710 have been authorised for passenger use by ORR:
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Post by superteacher on Apr 12, 2019 13:40:20 GMT
Finally!
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Post by kesmet on Apr 12, 2019 13:41:26 GMT
What are the conditions, does anyone know?
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Post by rincew1nd on Apr 12, 2019 13:51:38 GMT
What are the conditions, does anyone know? At this current moment in time, virtually every reply to the tweet I embedded is someone asking what the conditions are! I suspect there may be a full press release from ORR in due course. |
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Post by snoggle on Apr 12, 2019 14:01:39 GMT
What are the conditions, does anyone know? At this current moment in time, virtually every reply to the tweet I embedded is someone asking what the conditions are! I suspect there may be a full press release from ORR in due course. Do ORR do press releases for rolling stock approvals? I was looking on their site just yesterday and couldn't find a single thing about rolling stock approvals. It's obviously an activity they undertake but I couldn't find anything about the process, the criteria or any approvals. I'm obviously pleased to see some progress at very long last but understanding the conditions will be key. It does partly explain the reduction in overnight mileage runs on the WCML and the increase in daylight training runs on the GOBLIN in the last week or so. We have had a couple of days when all four return Willesden - Barking training runs have actually operated. |
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Post by rincew1nd on Apr 12, 2019 14:07:08 GMT
At this current moment in time, virtually every reply to the tweet I embedded is someone asking what the conditions are! I suspect there may be a full press release from ORR in due course. Do ORR do press releases for rolling stock approvals? I assumed they would given they have tweeted something, but maybe not! |
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Post by rincew1nd on Apr 12, 2019 15:33:30 GMT
Apologies for the double post, ORR have now published their authorisation letter:
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Post by xplaistow on Apr 12, 2019 15:59:30 GMT
I note that one of the restrictions is:
So a separate authorisation will be required before they can operate the Watford DC.
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Post by snoggle on Apr 12, 2019 16:41:22 GMT
I note that one of the restrictions is:
So a separate authorisation will be required before they can operate the Watford DC.
Yes. It is worth remembering that there has been next to no operation on DC tracks - only those between Willesden depot / Junction and Kensal Rise Junction on the North London Line. Therefore Bombardier will not have the test data to allow them to demonstrate how the train performs on DC metals at anything like passenger speeds. Nor does it have any "fault free" mileage accumulated. I would expect that there may now be more of an effort to test trains on DC tracks provided track access can be granted and the trains are cleared to run. I heard a long time ago that the Brighton Main Line was a possibility for overnight tests but NR are doing a lot of work on that line to improve the infrastructure. I guess a 710 might have to move or be hauled to New Cross Gate for overnight tests if track access is granted for tests. I'd guess TfL asked / instructed Bombardier to concentrate on getting AC approval first so the GOBLIN situation could be sorted out. Conversion of the DC service is a lower priority. |
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Post by kesmet on Apr 12, 2019 19:08:57 GMT
Interesting to note the exclusion of CSDE (Correct Side Door Enable) and ASDO (Automatic Selective Door Operation) - jumping to a conclusion here, but does that suggest a lack of infrastructure or a lack of testing of these facilities?
Also slightly worried about the refusal to allow sleet brushes and de-icing equipment. Hopefully we have a mild winter...
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Post by jswallow on Apr 12, 2019 19:59:04 GMT
Interesting to note the exclusion of CSDE (Correct Side Door Enable) and ASDO (Automatic Selective Door Operation) - jumping to a conclusion here, but does that suggest a lack of infrastructure or a lack of testing of these facilities? Also slightly worried about the refusal to allow sleet brushes and de-icing equipment. Hopefully we have a mild winter... What’s to worry about? If they’re only running on AC under the initial approval, neither sleet brushes nor deicing is needed. And as far as I know, there is no CSDE or ASDO on the GOBLIN, so again, not needed yet. |
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Post by phil on Apr 12, 2019 20:03:25 GMT
Interesting to note the exclusion of CSDE (Correct Side Door Enable) and ASDO (Automatic Selective Door Operation) - jumping to a conclusion here, but does that suggest a lack of infrastructure or a lack of testing of these facilities? Also slightly worried about the refusal to allow sleet brushes and de-icing equipment. Hopefully we have a mild winter...
CSDE is not usually fitted to network Rail infrastructure, so that is a non issue for North / West London line, Watford or GoBlin operations.
ASDO is nit required as all platforms on said routes are long enough for 4 car units to open all doors.
Sleet brushes - these are only required for DC conductor rail operation, which is not permitted yet for these units.
Similarly the de-icing equipment is only for use with conductor rails for which permission has yet to be granted.
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Post by stapler on Apr 12, 2019 20:52:27 GMT
Do we yet know how many units will be provided, and over what period?
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Post by Chris M on Apr 12, 2019 21:09:05 GMT
I suspect almost all of these restrictions are due to a lack of test data rather than evidence of problems. If CSDE and ASDO, etc are not required for AC operation on the Goblin then chances are that they simply haven't tested them, focusing on getting what is actually required to work. I suspect many other modern fleets that are currently in service without issues have some similar restrictions in that the trains are designed to operate under a wider range of conditions than are found on the routes they currently work so nobody has spent the time or money proving that unneeded aspects operate safely.
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Post by snoggle on Apr 12, 2019 21:25:26 GMT
I suspect almost all of these restrictions are due to a lack of test data rather than evidence of problems. If CSDE and ASDO, etc are not required for AC operation on the Goblin then chances are that they simply haven't tested them, focusing on getting what is actually required to work. I suspect many other modern fleets that are currently in service without issues have some similar restrictions in that the trains are designed to operate under a wider range of conditions than are found on the routes they currently work so nobody has spent the time or money proving that unneeded aspects operate safely. I understand that GWR's IEPs are all operating on "conditional" approval and look how many of those are in service! I think your basic point is right - some systems aren't in place so can't be tested so please don't switch them on and others are not crucial at this stage but will need a resolution later. At least the regulator is prepared to take a reasonable stance but obviously any risk sits with manufacturer and / or operator and not them! |
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Post by whistlekiller2000 on Apr 12, 2019 21:53:40 GMT
Whatever the restrictions are, provided they don't impinge on GOBLIN passenger workings, we finally have a good news story. I daresay there'll be issues ahead but a bit of positivity isn't a bad thing after the months of doom and disaster.  |
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Post by superteacher on Apr 12, 2019 23:00:13 GMT
It may well be that at first, they are restricted to off peak workings so that systems can be proven without the pressure of full peak loadings.
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Post by snoggle on Apr 12, 2019 23:22:26 GMT
It may well be that at first, they are restricted to off peak workings so that systems can be proven without the pressure of full peak loadings. Interesting - I thought they'd do the opposite. Run them off peak for driver training purposes and then put 1 or 2 paths into passenger service in the peaks to take the pressure off the most overcrowded trains. I understand your point completely but at some point they've got to cope with peak crowds. The point is that traffic has probably fallen anyway and a 4 car unit at 15 min intervals for, say, the peakiest hour will not be overstressed. There should really be loads of room so while they'd be busier than in the off peak they're very unlikely to be bursting at the seams in the early days. The risk that TfL / Arriva face is if the word gets round too fast and there is, for some reason, a surge in peak demand that fills the trains up. After such a long and dire period on the line I don't see that happening - people are probably far too jaded to be convinced quickly that a new era has started (whenever some of the new trains do run). The gentlest off peak test is to liven up some paths on a Saturday or Sunday for 710s and see how they cope. Possibly shove a 378, as a "rescue" unit, into a siding / goods loop on standby in case of failure. There are no freight trains on a Sunday on the GOBLIN so that's the day with least risk of disruption to other parties. |
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(A joke btw - in case anyone dares to take me seriously.)
