Class 710 Delivery / Entry to Service

Separating the "acceptance criteria" process, from the criteria needed to allow driver training, sort of makes sense as it may mean the 710s can be brought into passenger service more quickly.

Inherently it make no sense to pay drivers to sit on their hands. Presumably TFL (Arriva Rail London) already have enough drivers to operate the normal complement of 8 trains on GOBLIN with a few extra spare drivers available to cover for illness, training, holidays etc.

However the compliment of available trains has already dropped to 6 and within a month will be down to 3 trains. So the remaining GOBLIN drivers might as well start getting acquainted with the 710s and the related stopping points and braking rates needed by the new units along the Goblin route. OK this assumes Bombardier have finally figured out how to stop them having hissy fits and dropping the pantograph when the overhead voltage climbs much beyond the norm and are not going to inflict carnage on both passenger and freight services. Whilst it might be infuriating for passengers to see 710s routinely trundling along the route carrying boxes of fresh air, if this speeds up their final introduction into service then I guess it is something passengers will have no option but to live with.

A look at Real Time Trains shows that a 710 has been out and about on the WCML overnight running Wembley to Tring / Milton Keynes. One is heading north through NW London as I type this. Looks like Bombardier are trying again to achieve the fault free mileage target. No runs on the GOBLIN though in recent nights.

I didn't find this myself - it was posted on another forum. Looks like there may be a small breakthrough with the class 710s. There are paths on a couple of evenings next week between Willesden Depot and Barking. The tweet below expands on what they may be for. Shame they're not in daylight hours.

(EDIT - looks like the tweet was deleted rendering the above comment rather incomplete)

Looking good!
How long does it normally take between the driver training stage and the trains entering service?

At this stage no one outside of the LOTRAIN project knows. If the trains are managing to accumulate sufficient fault free mileage to get past the contractual target then that's a big plus. There has been a lot of test runs on the WCML recently that seem to have passed without apparent issue. It was suggested that tonight's runs on the GOBLIN were driver training runs - I'll be honest and say I don't understand the running codes that apply to NR workings. It may have been a training run tonight or it may not - I just don't know. There have been multiple IDs in the system for some of these test runs. It seems the 710 got in and out of Gospel Oak platform without issue so that's a plus too.

I have not picked up any new or recent comments about whether the 710s are genuinely heading towards a possible ORR sign off for passenger use. Getting through all the tests, data analysis, reliability runs and compiling a compliant submission for ORR sign off is no small tast and especially not on what is effectively a "step change" in software enabled train design. What no one has remarked on is the ability of ORR itself to tackle a sign off for such a step change in train design. It may find it has new challenges within its organisation to be able to effect the sign off. That's just me musing about possibilities so no one should panic.

It would be nice to get some definitive comment from Bombardier and TfL about apparent progress but I'm not holding my breath. Only 2 weeks until the 172s go and the service halves.

There was a class 172 (couldn't see number) in Ilford depot on Tuesday. Connected?

Woo and may I say Hoo. Never thought I'd see it happen but here is a class 710 out in daylight hours on a driver training run. There were quite a number of drivers on this run. Two actually alighted at Blackhorse Rd via the cab door which meant I got a tiny glimpse of the driver's seat. Judging from the discussion I overheard the train should be out tomorrow (Friday) as well. Several of the doors were shown as locked out of use and the destination display was wrong as was the next station indicator. So clearly not perfect but at least they are allowed out in normal traffic now.


London Overground 710 261 Blackhorse Road by plcd1, on Flickr

It also entered service that way - I've seen a photo. Seemingly the first time a 710 has been on DC power on Network Rail metals.

No doubt panicking with the impending loss of the 172s.

I shall refrain from posting my immediate response to this to avoid breaking the forum rules about politics.

ah but, surely to get out of the most desperate trouble only three trains are needed?

still a tall order, perhaps - but nevertheless far less steep than 8 trains!

....you just have to hope it won't....!

I'd argue you really need 4 to offer the chance of a vaguely stable service. ARL & Bombardier have to get to the point where they have some maintenance breathing space again. Running on zero or close to zero spare cover is, IMO, a mug's game. It's not sustainable for any great period of time.

If we look at the class 345s, which have a supposedly more familiar / stable software, their reliability is poor and not really climbing very strongly. I know some of that is down to the way on board technicians investigate everything thus extending durations into recordable incidents but even so it isn't the most reassuring precedent. We have to assume the 710s will have the usual "bath tub curve" reliability issues. None of the testing to date has involved actually opening and closing doors at stations and doors are a huge cause of reportable faults / delays. I appreciate it's really hard on a live railway to do this when you don't want passengers boarding trains but they should try to find a way to at least do some limited testing of this.

I expect TfL's priority will be to try to fill in peak gaps with 710s (once approved for use) even if it means 710s only do a few passenger carrying trips per day initially. It's clear from the most recent PR announcements about the 378s that peak capacity is what they're concerned with. I do wonder if we'll end up with the bizarre scenario of 710s running in the "empty" service paths after March 15th to build up driving training hours but with the trains not being able to carry passengers. "Oh look 4 trains an hour but you only actually get on half of them".

Here is the official TfL press release confirming a 50% cut in weekday services on the GOBLIN.

tfl.gov.uk/info-for/media/press-releases/2019/march/gospel-oak-to-barking-update

Dedicated page about the revised arrangements.

tfl.gov.uk/modes/london-overground/gospel-oak-to-barking-improvements?cid=gospel-oak-barking-trains

Just worth noting that none of the test trains have run today on the GOBLIN despite 4 return paths being made available.