|
|
Post by jukes on Apr 8, 2017 16:06:09 GMT
Improvement works are taking place at WAI stations. There are strong rumours that major works are planned at Hackney Downs over the next 36 months, including reopening the old very large ticket hall (closed in 1985), installation of lifts and possibly major works by NR to extend all four platforms to accommodate the new longer GA trains. There are similar strong rumours that lifts are to be installed at Seven Sisters and also platforms extended for the same reason as Hackney Downs.
|
|
|
|
Post by stapler on Apr 8, 2017 17:35:50 GMT
The 1985 "improvements" were anything but IMO. Lifts would obviously work better in the cavernous old ticket hall. I hope some way could be found to make the ramp to the NLR more accessible from all Downs platforms at Downs without traversing flights of stairs, as it was pre 1944.
Are the new trains any longer than 9-car 305s were?
|
|
|
|
Post by snoggle on Apr 8, 2017 18:51:33 GMT
Improvement works are taking place at WAI stations. There are strong rumours that major works are planned at Hackney Downs over the next 36 months, including reopening the old very large ticket hall (closed in 1985), installation of lifts and possibly major works by NR to extend all four platforms to accommodate the new longer GA trains. There are similar strong rumours that lifts are to be installed at Seven Sisters and also platforms extended for the same reason as Hackney Downs. Sorry to rain on your parade but I'd be amazed if anything of substance happens at Hackney Downs. There might be an aspiration to do as you suggest but there is no money for such major works. The existing programme of London Overground station capacity improvements has been scaled back at least once and is now under pressure because of site issues at West Hampstead. I can't see TfL indulging in more station expansion works on the Overground once the currently funded works are complete. There's no real "flex" in TfL's budget any more because of the fares freeze reducing expected increases in revenue and the loss of revenue grant 2 years earlier than anticipated. There is merit to the Seven Sisters works as it is on the Access for All programme for 2019/20. Network Rail have updated their list of stations recently. Hackney Downs is not mentioned in respect of the scale of lift provision you cite. It is listed solely because of the interchange link that was built and that is accessible. Slightly puzzled about the need for platform extension works - are the Class 710s (and derivatives) really that much longer than 315/7s?? I'm not clued about the carriage lengths of different stocks. |
|
|
|
Post by jukes on Apr 9, 2017 20:22:21 GMT
The proposed works at Hackney Downs will be part financed by a third party development, Network Rail and TfL and will include lifts. There is a 75% chance it will happen within 2 years. The platform extensions are needed because GAs new Aventra 720s will not fit any of the platforms in 10-car formations especially considering that GA perversely seems to have specified 24-meter coaches! The 710s are 20-meter coaches but there is provision to go 5-car in the future so they would be 10-car in peaks etc.
At Seven Sisters the platforms will need extending for the same reason - the 720s but also because the new Stansted Express FLIRT UK trains will be 12-car fixed formation and even if limited to 20-meter coaches will be too long for efficient docking even with SDO. The same proviso regarding the 710s to possible 5-car/10-car also applies.
|
|
|
|
Post by marcmck on Apr 9, 2017 21:18:40 GMT
Where is the original station building for hackney downs? Anyone have any links to pics of the original building?
Notwithstanding what's been said about scarcity of funding but hanches central really needs looking at as well - the original building there is one of the few remaining original north London railway line buildings left so would be amazing to see it reopened for railway purposes in the future.
|
|
|
|
Post by spsmiler on Apr 9, 2017 22:01:48 GMT
Sorry to rain on your parade but I'd be amazed if anything of substance happens at Hackney Downs. There might be an aspiration to do as you suggest but there is no money for such major works. The existing programme of London Overground station capacity improvements has been scaled back at least once and is now under pressure because of site issues at West Hampstead. I can't see TfL indulging in more station expansion works on the Overground once the currently funded works are complete. There's no real "flex" in TfL's budget any more because of the fares freeze reducing expected increases in revenue and the loss of revenue grant 2 years earlier than anticipated. There is merit to the Seven Sisters works as it is on the Access for All programme for 2019/20. Network Rail have updated their list of stations recently. Hackney Downs is not mentioned in respect of the scale of lift provision you cite. It is listed solely because of the interchange link that was built and that is accessible. Slightly puzzled about the need for platform extension works - are the Class 710s (and derivatives) really that much longer than 315/7s?? I'm not clued about the carriage lengths of different stocks. Hmm, HS2 is getting all the money, leaving virtually nothing for anything else. Its bittersweet. I say this because there are quite a few improvement / local line reopening schemes around the country which do not necessarily need £billions but would significantly improve the quality of life for local people if they were brought into fruition. Simon |
|
|
|
Post by phil on Apr 9, 2017 22:50:15 GMT
Hmm, HS2 is getting all the money, leaving virtually nothing for anything else. Its bittersweet. I say this because there are quite a few improvement / local line reopening schemes around the country which do not necessarily need £billions but would significantly improve the quality of life for local people if they were brought into fruition. Simon Since when has TfL been paying for HS2 then? Rather than seeking to blame others Londoners need to look a bit closer to home. While its true the Government is cutting its funds by withdrawing revenue support 2 years early (and thus not helping the situation), it was the Mayor who decided to implement a fare freeze* and thus deliberately reduce the monies TfL would have available. * The Conservative party and Central Government made it very clear in the run up to the election that such a move would mean less money to spend on transport improvements - don't come complaining when this basic truth starts to take effect |
|
Dom K
Global Moderator
The future is bright
Posts: 1,831 
|
Post by Dom K on Apr 9, 2017 23:36:37 GMT
Hmm, HS2 is getting all the money, leaving virtually nothing for anything else. Its bittersweet. I say this because there are quite a few improvement / local line reopening schemes around the country which do not necessarily need £billions but would significantly improve the quality of life for local people if they were brought into fruition. Simon Since when has TfL been paying for HS2 then? Rather than seeking to blame others Londoners need to look a bit closer to home. While its true the Government is cutting its funds by withdrawing revenue support 2 years early (and thus not helping the situation), it was the Mayor who decided to implement a fare freeze* and thus deliberately reduce the monies TfL would have available. * The Conservative party and Central Government made it very clear in the run up to the election that such a move would mean less money to spend on transport improvements - don't come complaining when this basic truth starts to take effect |
|
|
|
Post by aslefshrugged on Apr 10, 2017 3:00:24 GMT
Hmm, HS2 is getting all the money, leaving virtually nothing for anything else. Its bittersweet. I say this because there are quite a few improvement / local line reopening schemes around the country which do not necessarily need £billions but would significantly improve the quality of life for local people if they were brought into fruition. Simon Since when has TfL been paying for HS2 then? Rather than seeking to blame others Londoners need to look a bit closer to home. While its true the Government is cutting its funds by withdrawing revenue support 2 years early (and thus not helping the situation), it was the Mayor who decided to implement a fare freeze* and thus deliberately reduce the monies TfL would have available. * The Conservative party and Central Government made it very clear in the run up to the election that such a move would mean less money to spend on transport improvements - don't come complaining when this basic truth starts to take effect Hackney Downs and Seven Sisters are Network Rail stations, if the platforms need extending to accommodate Abellio's new trains then why would TfL/Mayor of London have to pay for it? |
|
|
|
Post by norbitonflyer on Apr 10, 2017 6:20:45 GMT
The platform extensions are needed because GAs new Aventra 720s ..... Have the class numbers for Abellio's new trains been announced? What are the Stadler units to be? |
|
|
|
Post by phil on Apr 10, 2017 9:01:32 GMT
Hackney Downs and Seven Sisters are Network Rail stations, if the platforms need extending to accommodate Abellio's new trains then why would TfL/Mayor of London have to pay for it? I was referring to the re-opening of booking halls etc. which are not on the NR agenda and as such will not be funded by anyone other than TfL. Naturally if the platforms need extending to cope with the new trains the Franchise is procuring the NR will of course fund this. Similarly if the station is on the list for getting lifts as part of NR / DfTs "Access for All' programme, then funds will again come from NR / DfT (though a financial contribution may see the work bought forward compared to the original timescale). Equally if some form of station congestion relief is required then NR might well contribute towards the cost as they do elsewhere in the country - BUT as with other areas of the country they would usually expect local authorities contribute if said works bring wider benefits. If TfL doesn't have the cash to do so then NR / DfT have made it very clear they will not be bailing TfL out and the plans either won't happen or will be scaled back to a 'do minimum' approch. |
|
|
|
Post by aslefshrugged on Apr 10, 2017 9:29:03 GMT
Hackney Downs and Seven Sisters are Network Rail stations, if the platforms need extending to accommodate Abellio's new trains then why would TfL/Mayor of London have to pay for it? I was referring to the re-opening of booking halls etc. which are not on the NR agenda and as such will not be funded by anyone other than TfL. Naturally if the platforms need extending to cope with the new trains the Franchise is procuring the NR will of course fund this. Similarly if the station is on the list for getting lifts as part of NR / DfTs "Access for All' programme, then funds will again come from NR / DfT (though a financial contribution may see the work bought forward compared to the original timescale). Equally if some form of station congestion relief is required then NR might well contribute towards the cost as they do elsewhere in the country - BUT as with other areas of the country they would usually expect local authorities contribute if said works bring wider benefits. If TfL doesn't have the cash to do so then NR / DfT have made it very clear they will not be bailing TfL out and the plans either won't happen or will be scaled back to a 'do minimum' approch. Seven Sisters is indeed on Network Rail's "Access for All" list, as of last month it is due for completion 2019/2020. Hackney Downs isn't but Jukes says that a third party is part-funding this so maybe its a Northern Line Battersea extension type deal. There's been a lot of property development in the area and as always public transport is a big boost for sales (and property prices). |
|
|
|
Post by snoggle on Apr 10, 2017 11:00:51 GMT
The proposed works at Hackney Downs will be part financed by a third party development, Network Rail and TfL and will include lifts. There is a 75% chance it will happen within 2 years. The platform extensions are needed because GAs new Aventra 720s will not fit any of the platforms in 10-car formations especially considering that GA perversely seems to have specified 24-meter coaches! The 710s are 20-meter coaches but there is provision to go 5-car in the future so they would be 10-car in peaks etc. At Seven Sisters the platforms will need extending for the same reason - the 720s but also because the new Stansted Express FLIRT UK trains will be 12-car fixed formation and even if limited to 20-meter coaches will be too long for efficient docking even with SDO. The same proviso regarding the 710s to possible 5-car/10-car also applies. Thanks for all that. Hadn't appreciated the new GA trains would have such an impact despite their limited number of stops at places like Hackney Downs and Seven Sisters. Obviously the Stansted Express gets diverted regularly via Seven Sisters so that has to be capable of accepting that stock. Probably just as well the DfT removed the need for GA to stop at Edmonton Green as that would be another set of platform extensions. Genuinely surprised by the Hackney Downs potential scheme. I just can't picture what sort of third party scheme could be squashed in there because the site is constrained, almost impossible to build over and there were loads of complaints from locals just about the pedestrian link's impact. If some big scheme is proposed I can't see it being popular. Still we shall wait and see. |
|
|
|
Post by stapler on Apr 10, 2017 13:44:52 GMT
As far as I know, the original 1872 building at Hackney Downs was obliterated by the quadrupling twenty years later. The one people are referring to was a cavernous arch entered by two inconspicuous doorways off a forecourt abutting Dalston Lane (south side). LNER signage directed you to trains for Enfield, Palace Gates, Chingford, Hertford and Buntingford (all a bit complicated as you knew eg that Chingfords generally left from the island platform, but once in a while would come off the slow lines!
|
|
|
|
Post by jukes on Apr 10, 2017 18:12:59 GMT
Just to clarify. I found out today that there is indeed a scheme to extend the platforms at Hackney Downs. Remember that Hertford East trains call there, use all 4 platforms and from May 2019 that service increases to 3 tph. I also had confirmation about Seven Sisters platform extensions and lifts - they will probably be done at the same time. The lifts at Hackney Downs will if it happens, be located in the old booking hall under the bridge referred to above. Its still there and is not used for anything except storage. NR will be interested in part funding as it gives them commercial some development revenue potential such as small shops etc. Also you have to remember that footfall at HD is set to pass 3 million this year.
|
|
|
|
Post by stapler on Apr 10, 2017 20:54:44 GMT
Talking of those small shops, Jukes, am I alone in remembering the aquarium shop that was there before? Shubunkins and veiltails swimming around in tanks lit by garish neon lights, and N7s and Britannias thundering above; what more could a small boy wish for?
|
|
|
|
Post by waysider on May 5, 2017 16:25:55 GMT
Theobalds Grove ticket office refurbishment has been going on for a year now with no sign of it coming to an end soon.
Anyone know why its taking so long?
|
|
|
|
Post by jukes on May 6, 2017 20:48:51 GMT
Yes Complete breakdown in TfL project management and also total shambles of main and sub contractors. Some already completed work at stations may need to be stripped out and done again. Same state of affairs at Hackney Downs. Stoke Newington supposed to be completed by mid-July and absolutely no start on site yet Stamford Hill building falling down and propped up by temporary steel braces.
|
|
|
|
Post by stapler on May 6, 2017 21:21:35 GMT
Shades of the late and unlamented Walthamstow Central cage!
|
|
|
|
Post by snoggle on May 7, 2017 12:40:09 GMT
Yes Complete breakdown in TfL project management and also total shambles of main and sub contractors. Some already completed work at stations may need to be stripped out and done again. Same state of affairs at Hackney Downs. Stoke Newington supposed to be completed by mid-July and absolutely no start on site yet Stamford Hill building falling down and propped up by temporary steel braces. Breakdown or internal reorganisation causing problems? |
|
|
|
Post by crusty54 on May 7, 2017 17:22:46 GMT
Yes Complete breakdown in TfL project management and also total shambles of main and sub contractors. Some already completed work at stations may need to be stripped out and done again. Same state of affairs at Hackney Downs. Stoke Newington supposed to be completed by mid-July and absolutely no start on site yet Stamford Hill building falling down and propped up by temporary steel braces. Breakdown or internal reorganisation causing problems? A lot of the project managers at TfL were agency staff who have been forced out. |
|
|
|
Post by snoggle on May 7, 2017 23:31:08 GMT
Breakdown or internal reorganisation causing problems? A lot of the project managers at TfL were agency staff who have been forced out. Ah! That will have caused enormous problems as they'll have been in no mood to effect a smooth handover especially if the departure was done at short notice. |
|
|
|
Post by waysider on May 8, 2017 11:16:59 GMT
Wow ...i'm surprised this hasn't made it to the papers as it explains so much!
Turkey Street has been given a new station building to replace the 'hole in the wall' but once the main frame structure of the structure was put in place - nothing? And its stayed like that since Christmas!
Workmen in their hi-vis jackets are at Theobalds and Turkey Street every day yet no progress has bern made for at least six months???
|
|
|
|
Post by crusty54 on May 8, 2017 15:49:10 GMT
The TfL project managers are also looking after the East London Crossrail works and as this included platform alterations for the first of the new 345s to be able to enter service with the May timetable change. This probably has taken priority.
The Gospel Oak - Barking fiasco (see the Standard tonight) can't have helped either.
|
|
|
|
Post by silenthunter on May 8, 2017 20:42:03 GMT
The platform extensions are needed because GAs new Aventra 720s ..... Have the class numbers for Abellio's new trains been announced? What are the Stadler units to be? Not seen official TOPS classes yet for them. |
|
|
|
Post by silenthunter on May 8, 2017 20:45:27 GMT
The proposed works at Hackney Downs will be part financed by a third party development, Network Rail and TfL and will include lifts. There is a 75% chance it will happen within 2 years. The platform extensions are needed because GAs new Aventra 720s will not fit any of the platforms in 10-car formations especially considering that GA perversely seems to have specified 24-meter coaches! The 710s are 20-meter coaches but there is provision to go 5-car in the future so they would be 10-car in peaks etc. At Seven Sisters the platforms will need extending for the same reason - the 720s but also because the new Stansted Express FLIRT UK trains will be 12-car fixed formation and even if limited to 20-meter coaches will be too long for efficient docking even with SDO. The same proviso regarding the 710s to possible 5-car/10-car also applies. 20 metres +/- 1 is pretty much the UK standard for multiple units with some notable exceptions; the Mark 3 is 23 metres long and so many units based on that (i.e. Sprinters) are of that length. Class 345 coaches will be 22-23 metres each, so 24 isn't that strange. 26 is not uncommon on the continent. |
|
|
|
Post by norbitonflyer on May 8, 2017 21:28:39 GMT
20 metres +/- 1 is pretty much the UK standard for multiple units with some notable exceptions; the Mark 3 is 23 metres long and so many units based on that (i.e. Sprinters) are of that length. Actually, Sprinters (Class 150) and their electric equivalents (classes 317-322, 455, 456) are all 20 metres. The only Mark 3 based 23 metre vehicles are HSTs, loco hauled vehicles, and the Class 442 Wessex units. The class 155 and 156 "super Sprinters", and all later us, are 23m, but not based on the Mark 3 body shell. |
|
|
|
Post by silenthunter on May 8, 2017 21:32:39 GMT
I stand corrected. Thanks.
|
|
|
|
Post by phil on May 9, 2017 19:19:17 GMT
Breakdown or internal reorganisation causing problems? A lot of the project managers at TfL were agency staff who have been forced out. Cost cutting due to the early removal of the Government grant plus Mr Kahn's fares policy beginning to bite methinks. |
|
|
|
Post by waysider on May 31, 2017 21:26:21 GMT
Funnily enough, since commenting on this thread, work at Theobalds Grove has picked up and is nearly complete. I have taken some pictures of the ticket hall but dont know how to post them on here?
|
|
