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Post by snoggle on Aug 15, 2018 8:26:07 GMT
Bruce Grove isn't gated and there are no active plans to do so. Silver St was meant to be till the cost estimates came in!!! But there is a way of cutting that estimate by 50%. Ooh do tell... Wild guess - original plan involved a gateline and enclosures at the bottom of each staircase. New plan involves one less gateline and opening up a closed arch under the tracks to give access to the single gateline. Of course this adds to the number of gates in that single gateline and means a slightly longer walk to access / exit the station for some people. This assumes the arches under the tracks are in a reasonable condition. If not then the cost of refurbishment and preventing water ingress could be high. I await Mr Jukes saying I'm totally wrong.  |
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Post by dm1 on Aug 15, 2018 9:56:51 GMT
Aren't some of the new gate lines on crossrail weatherproof? Would putting in barriers like that somewhere outside change the calculations/costs?
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Post by piccboy on Aug 15, 2018 10:51:41 GMT
I'm sure I read somewhere that TfL are wanting to increase the service frequencies out of Liverpool Street, and indeed are working on it, but it's not something that can be done overnight. Am I right in thinking they are waiting for Elizabeth Line trains to start running through to Heathrow in order to free up platforms at Liverpool street to increase Overground services? |
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Aug 15, 2018 12:03:31 GMT
Am I right in thinking they are waiting for Elizabeth Line trains to start running through to Heathrow in order to free up platforms at Liverpool street to increase Overground services? Is this actually possible? I thought that West Anglia lines cannot use GEML platforms (always thought that they are essentially separate stations at the track level). |
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Post by snoggle on Aug 15, 2018 13:22:43 GMT
I'm sure I read somewhere that TfL are wanting to increase the service frequencies out of Liverpool Street, and indeed are working on it, but it's not something that can be done overnight. Am I right in thinking they are waiting for Elizabeth Line trains to start running through to Heathrow in order to free up platforms at Liverpool street to increase Overground services? I can't see how. Overground services run from the westernmost platforms while Crossrail will retain peak time access to rebuilt platforms on the eastern side of the station. I can't see that "juggling" platform use would help very much given the Norwich trains have to use the central platforms (8-11??) due to their length. If I was to make an educated guess I think TfL will be waiting until both MTR and Abellio have their new fleets of trains in place. They should be able to run faster than the older stocks presently in use allowing NR to recast the timetable (subject to whatever infrastructure changes are needed). IIRC the new Greater Anglia franchise increases the number of trains into Liverpool St on both the Anglia and West Anglia sides of Liverpool St. Furthermore the DfT have removed the obligation for GA to serve Edmonton Green in the peaks which lands TfL with something of a problem to solve. These franchise issues also point to a major timetable recast and Overground (and to a lesser extent MTR Crossrail) would be affected by that. I would not expect a massive increase in Overground services in the peak as the Liv St approaches are at / close to capacity. Off peak there could be an improvement. I think it's planned for 2020 but that is entirely dependent on the new trains arriving on time. The less said about new trains arriving on time or even running on the tracks the better.  Best stop now as we're really off topic. |
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Post by norbitonflyer on Aug 15, 2018 13:35:29 GMT
I thought that West Anglia lines cannot use GEML platforms (always thought that they are essentially separate stations at the track level). Carto Metro shows Bethnal Green West junction (on the London side of the station), which is a ladder junction allowing access for both the Hackney and Stratford lines to and from all three pairs of running lines towards Liverpool Street. Using them on a regular basis would, however, reduce capacity of the area considerably. |
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Post by peterc on Aug 15, 2018 14:04:53 GMT
IIRC there is overlap between the platforms available to each of the three approaches. Currently all Overground services are routed onto the Suburban Line through Bethnal Green station.
Once Crossrail is up and running capacity will be released on the Electric Lines but with the planned platformed lengthening and associated loss of platform 18 that won't be available for some time. All that I have seen suggests that all the capacity released will be allocated to Greater Anglia.
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Post by jukes on Aug 15, 2018 15:49:15 GMT
Am I right in thinking they are waiting for Elizabeth Line trains to start running through to Heathrow in order to free up platforms at Liverpool street to increase Overground services? I can't see how. Overground services run from the westernmost platforms while Crossrail will retain peak time access to rebuilt platforms on the eastern side of the station. I can't see that "juggling" platform use would help very much given the Norwich trains have to use the central platforms (8-11??) due to their length. If I was to make an educated guess I think TfL will be waiting until both MTR and Abellio have their new fleets of trains in place. They should be able to run faster than the older stocks presently in use allowing NR to recast the timetable (subject to whatever infrastructure changes are needed). IIRC the new Greater Anglia franchise increases the number of trains into Liverpool St on both the Anglia and West Anglia sides of Liverpool St. Furthermore the DfT have removed the obligation for GA to serve Edmonton Green in the peaks which lands TfL with something of a problem to solve. These franchise issues also point to a major timetable recast and Overground (and to a lesser extent MTR Crossrail) would be affected by that. I would not expect a massive increase in Overground services in the peak as the Liv St approaches are at / close to capacity. Off peak there could be an improvement. I think it's planned for 2020 but that is entirely dependent on the new trains arriving on time. The less said about new trains arriving on time or even running on the tracks the better. Best stop now as we're really off topic. Actually the GA Edmonton Green peak stoppers were put back into the timetable by DfT just before the franchise was signed. Liverpool Street does not and will not have the peak capacity to accommodate more LO services. Off-peak also poses some difficulties. Some consideration was given to providing a south to north turn back at Hackney Downs but was ruled out on expense grounds. The current intention is to run extra services from Enfield Town and Cheshunt to Seven Sisters and use the 'GOBLIN Chord' as the turn back. Not ideal and I understand that TfL are still thinking and haven't signed off on anything yet. |
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Ben
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Post by Ben on Aug 15, 2018 17:44:09 GMT
"The current intention is to run extra services from Enfield Town and Cheshunt to Seven Sisters and use the 'GOBLIN Chord' as the turn back. Not ideal and I understand that TfL are still thinking and haven't signed off on anything yet"
Weren't they at one point supposed to continue over the Goblin? Or possibly Stratford? Can't really remember now...
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Post by snoggle on Aug 15, 2018 22:24:21 GMT
Actually the GA Edmonton Green peak stoppers were put back into the timetable by DfT just before the franchise was signed. Liverpool Street does not and will not have the peak capacity to accommodate more LO services. Off-peak also poses some difficulties. Some consideration was given to providing a south to north turn back at Hackney Downs but was ruled out on expense grounds. The current intention is to run extra services from Enfield Town and Cheshunt to Seven Sisters and use the 'GOBLIN Chord' as the turn back. Not ideal and I understand that TfL are still thinking and haven't signed off on anything yet. Thanks for that GA update - didn't know that had happened. I see the TfL short working idea to the Tube "railhead" hasn't changed then. I bet they are "still thinking" - it's not the easiest turn manoeuvre to make on a regular basis unless you're confident you're not going to screw up of your services and freight workings too. |
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Post by waysider on Aug 15, 2018 23:16:02 GMT
I can remember around the time of Ken Livingstones leadership, the GLC funding a 6 trains-an-hour service, called the 'jazz train' with 4 going to Enfield Town and 2 to Cheshunt ...and that was with the old slam-door 308 class trains. If a ten minute headway could be achieved in the 1980's using 1960's trains and signalling, why not today?
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Chris M
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Post by Chris M on Aug 16, 2018 1:35:46 GMT
The railway is a lot fuller now than it was in the 1980s, so there will be more competition for every path, especially at the Liverpool Street end. Whether that is the whole reason I don't know but it will be a part.
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Post by brigham on Aug 16, 2018 8:59:41 GMT
I suppose you could divert local services into the under-used platforms at Broad Street...
Oh!
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Post by snoggle on Aug 16, 2018 9:47:58 GMT
I can remember around the time of Ken Livingstones leadership, the GLC funding a 6 trains-an-hour service, called the 'jazz train' with 4 going to Enfield Town and 2 to Cheshunt ...and that was with the old slam-door 308 class trains. If a ten minute headway could be achieved in the 1980's using 1960's trains and signalling, why not today? Far more trains to Cambridge / Bishops Stortford / Stansted nowadays. While they don't directly use the same tracks north of Bethnal Green they do, of course, use the same tracks into / out of Liverpool Street. AIUI that is where the capacity constraint is. The Stansted Express is the thing that overrides every other consideration because of its clockface headway and demand for fast paths to T Hale and then north of there. It's partly why connections between Chingford and Enfield / Cheshunt trains are so bad at Hackney Downs. If you travel from Chingford and want London Fields / Cambridge Heath you're guaranteed to miss your train at Hackney Down as the connection time is 1 or 2 mins - and there are lots of stairs to navigate. They're a little better if you change from south to north (and vice versa) at H'ney Downs. The need to "flight" stopping trains into and out of Liv St is the reason for the poor connections. |
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Post by silenthunter on Aug 16, 2018 9:59:08 GMT
I can remember around the time of Ken Livingstones leadership, the GLC funding a 6 trains-an-hour service, called the 'jazz train' with 4 going to Enfield Town and 2 to Cheshunt ...and that was with the old slam-door 308 class trains. If a ten minute headway could be achieved in the 1980's using 1960's trains and signalling, why not today? The 'Jazz Train' was a moniker originally used for those services going back pre-Grouping:
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Post by jukes on Aug 16, 2018 15:46:01 GMT
Wild guess - original plan involved a gateline and enclosures at the bottom of each staircase. New plan involves one less gateline and opening up a closed arch under the tracks to give access to the single gateline. Of course this adds to the number of gates in that single gateline and means a slightly longer walk to access / exit the station for some people. This assumes the arches under the tracks are in a reasonable condition. If not then the cost of refurbishment and preventing water ingress could be high. I await Mr Jukes saying I'm totally wrong. Actually that is Plan B. As for a disused arch it would be the one currently occupied by the Ticket Office as TfL are intending to do away with the one at Silver Street, just leaving a small staff room in part of the current space. The Ticket Office arch is in quite good order structurally. As for gateline, it would need to be 1 Wide and 5 ordinary instead of 2 gatelines each of 1 Wide and 3 ordinary so a net reduction of 2. Plus of course only one canopy to cover and secure the gateline and regulate entry as opposed to 2! |
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Post by waysider on Aug 18, 2018 10:07:30 GMT
Wild guess - original plan involved a gateline and enclosures at the bottom of each staircase. New plan involves one less gateline and opening up a closed arch under the tracks to give access to the single gateline. Of course this adds to the number of gates in that single gateline and means a slightly longer walk to access / exit the station for some people. This assumes the arches under the tracks are in a reasonable condition. If not then the cost of refurbishment and preventing water ingress could be high. I await Mr Jukes saying I'm totally wrong. Actually that is Plan B. As for a disused arch it would be the one currently occupied by the Ticket Office as TfL are intending to do away with the one at Silver Street, just leaving a small staff room in part of the current space. The Ticket Office arch is in quite good order structurally. As for gateline, it would need to be 1 Wide and 5 ordinary instead of 2 gatelines each of 1 Wide and 3 ordinary so a net reduction of 2. Plus of course only one canopy to cover and secure the gateline and regulate entry as opposed to 2! that's interesting ...are there any plans or artists impressions you can post? |
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Post by jukes on Aug 18, 2018 16:50:06 GMT
None in the public domain. But things have gone very quiet at the moment everywhere because of the severe cash flow problem at TfL.
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Post by waysider on Sept 13, 2018 16:13:31 GMT
A few views of Silver Street station I took today... The ticket office on the southbound side of the station  20180913_141621 by james tuite, on Flickr Looking down onto the ticket office from the top of the southbound staircase  20180913_141541 by james tuite, on Flickr Looking at the station from the North Circular Road/Edmonton Angel juction. In the days of Eastern region, there was a blue neon sign on the bridge spelling out SILVER STREET BRITISH RAILWAYS  20180913_141751 by james tuite, on Flickr A new sign on the southbound exit ...bit of an odd thing to say with White Hart Lane the next stop?  20180913_141533 by james tuite, on Flickr The ticket machine and staircase going up to the northbound platform  20180913_141705 by james tuite, on Flickr |
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Dom K
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Post by Dom K on Sept 13, 2018 17:46:31 GMT
A few views of Silver Street station I took today... The ticket office on the southbound side of the station 20180913_141621 by james tuite, on Flickr Looking down onto the ticket office from the top of the southbound staircase 20180913_141541 by james tuite, on Flickr Looking at the station from the North Circular Road/Edmonton Angel juction. In the days of Eastern region, there was a blue neon sign on the bridge spelling out SILVER STREET BRITISH RAILWAYS 20180913_141751 by james tuite, on Flickr A new sign on the southbound exit ...bit of an odd thing to say with White Hart Lane the next stop? 20180913_141533 by james tuite, on Flickr The ticket machine and staircase going up to the northbound platform 20180913_141705 by james tuite, on Flickr You will find those “exit for Tottenham Stadium” sticker/signs at Edmonton Green, Bruce Grove and Seven Sisters! Perhaps to spread the loads, but as you say White Hart Lane is the obvious one and unless you’ve been in a black hole for the last 100 years, you will know that this is the nearest station! |
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Post by silenthunter on Sept 15, 2018 21:44:53 GMT
Aren't there supposed to be staff there?
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Ben
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Post by Ben on Sept 16, 2018 11:35:43 GMT
Is Silver Street one of the Overground stations that will loose its ticket office at some point in the future? It seems puzzling that they are still building 'Assistance and Tickets' Windows when one function will cease soon. If no cash is stored, the window could be larger, for example.
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DWS
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Post by DWS on Sept 16, 2018 11:50:33 GMT
Is Silver Street one of the Overground stations that will loose its ticket office at some point in the future? It seems puzzling that they are still building 'Assistance and Tickets' Windows when one function will cease soon. If no cash is stored, the window could be larger, for example. Why does the window need to be larger ? |
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Post by waysider on Apr 1, 2019 16:39:44 GMT
A few pics of the ongoing works at White Hart Lane taken at the weekend...  20190330_150840 by james tuite, on Flickr Southbound platform - new station building and platform canopy under construction  20190330_151237 by james tuite, on Flickr Looking south down Love Lane from White Hart Lane - frame of new station building behind the existing one  20190330_150905 by james tuite, on Flickr View from southbound platform down onto Love Lane  20190330_150940 by james tuite, on Flickr New platform buildings, taken from the southbound platform looking north  20190330_151047 by james tuite, on Flickr New canopy on northbound platforms ...379 022 to Cambridge North making an extra stop for football traffic |
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Post by goldenarrow on Aug 29, 2019 10:52:39 GMT
The rebuilt station opened for business three days ago.
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Ben
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Post by Ben on Sept 13, 2019 1:25:48 GMT
Looks great!
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