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Post by dazz285 on Sept 28, 2015 19:21:32 GMT
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Post by snoggle on Sept 28, 2015 19:32:03 GMT
Hooray - I assume that means the project is relatively safe despite all the "reviews" being carried out within Network Rail. I'm slightly surprised by Murphys winning the work as I wouldn't have thought railway electrification was a core competence for them but I'm probably way out of date as to their overall portfolio of work.
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Post by dmncf on Sept 28, 2015 20:19:31 GMT
Hooray - I assume that means the project is relatively safe despite all the "reviews" being carried out within Network Rail. I'm slightly surprised by Murphys winning the work as I wouldn't have thought railway electrification was a core competence for them but I'm probably way out of date as to their overall portfolio of work. I imagine that the location of Murphy's yard was a point in their favour! www.murphygroup.co.uk/ContactUs/UnitedKingdom/London |
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Post by superteacher on Sept 28, 2015 21:18:10 GMT
Good to hear this.
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Post by Tomcakes on Oct 16, 2015 16:29:19 GMT
Letters have been sent out to lineside residents giving details of the works. They intend on conducting noisy works piling for the catenary from 8am to 9pm Saturday/Sunday during November, between Gospel Oak and Crouch End stations. These will be accompanied by 24 hour vehicle movements. There is no schedule as to when particular areas will be done, just detail that they will be "moving up the line", with "a couple of hours severe noise" at each location. Which is not helpful for those working shifts!
The rest of the branch will apparently be done by 2016, although I presume this is just piling the appropriate holes.
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Post by snoggle on Oct 16, 2015 21:29:07 GMT
Letters have been sent out to lineside residents giving details of the works. They intend on conducting noisy works piling for the catenary from 8am to 9pm Saturday/Sunday during November, between Gospel Oak and Crouch End stations. These will be accompanied by 24 hour vehicle movements. There is no schedule as to when particular areas will be done, just detail that they will be "moving up the line", with "a couple of hours severe noise" at each location. Which is not helpful for those working shifts! The rest of the branch will apparently be done by 2016, although I presume this is just piling the appropriate holes. Interesting that they're start piling for the masts already. Bit faster than I had assumed but the Gospel Oak end is a bit easier to tackle than the Barking one with the extensive viaducts. |
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Post by spsmiler on Oct 17, 2015 22:53:08 GMT
Will they be renewing the overhead on the few sections which are already electrified?
And will the wiring reach the existing platform at Barking? - or will the extension be opened first?
Simon
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rincew1nd
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Post by rincew1nd on Oct 18, 2015 12:49:12 GMT
If it's anything like the recent electrification work around here, then it is purely infill. Platforms one to six at Lime St have been electrified since before I first visited and this spring electric services started using them. AFAIK the only work done was an inspection and any remedial work, there was no upgrade of it. The same applies to the knitting at Newton-le-Willows on the Chat Moss line.
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Post by stapler on Oct 18, 2015 13:39:46 GMT
On the viaducts, they'll install clamp brackets, won't they? No piling.
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Post by domh245 on Oct 18, 2015 14:05:07 GMT
On the viaducts, they'll install clamp brackets, won't they? No piling. Presumably. The only thing that I can say with any confidence is that it will be the Network Rail Series 2 electrification kit that will be used, as that is now the new lower speed (100mph) standard kit. This is what was recently used for the Manchester-Livepool Electrification, and looking at the viaducts in Manchester that were electrified, it seems the preferred approach is to use Portal structures:  Image courtesy of NWrailSo i'd imagine something similar will appear on the Goblin |
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Post by norbitonflyer on Oct 18, 2015 15:12:29 GMT
This is what was recently used for the Manchester-Livepool Electrification, and looking at the viaducts in Manchester that were electrified, it seems the preferred approach is to use Portal structures: Is that pictureof the Pendolino taken on one of the newly-electrified stretches? I don't think they are regular performers on that route. Admittedly Liverpool - Manchester is about as far as I would want to travel on one of Branson's wingless wonders (he promised to bring an airline ambience to rail travel - as if that was a good thing!) |
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Post by stapler on Oct 18, 2015 15:21:15 GMT
Sorry to be ignorant, but what are portal structures?
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Post by domh245 on Oct 18, 2015 15:34:44 GMT
This is what was recently used for the Manchester-Livepool Electrification, and looking at the viaducts in Manchester that were electrified, it seems the preferred approach is to use Portal structures: Is that pictureof the Pendolino taken on one of the newly-electrified stretches? I don't think they are regular performers on that route. Admittedly Liverpool - Manchester is about as far as I would want to travel on one of Branson's wingless wonders (he promised to bring an airline ambience to rail travel - as if that was a good thing!) That photo is indeed from a newly electrified stretch, the fact that the registration equipment is lovely shiny aluminium rather than weathered copper green is the giveaway! 390s certainly aren't regulars over that stretch of line, and indeed on the day of the photo, it was being hauled by a class 57 as the wires hadn't been energised at that point. However, now that the chat moss line has got wires up, it can be used as a diversionary route into Liverpool, via Manchester (or Earlestown, but for some reason there is a sticking point over them using the link between the WCML and there) photosEdit to add: Portal Structures (2 uprights, and a cross member straddling the tracks, equipment suspended from above) and then there are also Cantilevers (1 upright with the registration equipment (the stuff that keeps the wires in place) attached to the side of it) Twin Track Cantilevers (Like a portal, but with only 1 upright, lots of these on the GWML electrification project) Headspans (2 uprights, but using wires instead of a solid cross member, used a lot on BED-PAN and the ECML, but cause a lot of problems. Only used once so far in modern era of electrification at Rainhill, for sentimental reasons) |
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Post by roboverground on Oct 18, 2015 15:54:41 GMT
The freight only 'Tottenham Lines' from the Midland Mainline/Thameslink Carlton Road Junction (just North of Kentish Town Thameslink) through to Junction Road Jcn ( just west of Upper Holloway ) n T&H lines actually passes behind 'Murphys yard' at Kentish Town although most of the work is stated as being sub contracted out, having a base already in situ makes life easier. This section also planned to be electrified as part of the scheme which could provide some interesting journey opportunities in the future
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Post by rincew1nd on Oct 18, 2015 16:14:50 GMT
Is that pictureof the Pendolino taken on one of the newly-electrified stretches? I don't think they are regular performers on that route. Admittedly Liverpool - Manchester is about as far as I would want to travel on one of Branson's wingless wonders (he promised to bring an airline ambience to rail travel - as if that was a good thing!) Yes, recently wired. That's Castlefield Jct to the immediate west of Deansgate (footings of the castle can be seen bottom right). It's where the line from Deansgate splits into the Cheshire Lines Committee route via Warrington (out of sight to the left) and towards Salford and Chat Moss. The route between Manchester and Liverpool is operated by Northern using the units displaced from Thameslink; Virgin don't operate between Liverpool and Manchester. |
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Post by norbitonflyer on Oct 18, 2015 19:58:57 GMT
Portal Structures (2 uprights, and a cross member straddling the tracks, equipment suspended from above)) A portal is a gateway. Portal type was conventional on early electrification projects - this is Tring on the WCML The French, as ever, had a certain style souvenirs-de-mer.cloudns.org/IMG/jpg/1/5/e/sncf-BB9004record1955.jpg(this is CC7107 on its record-breaking 200mph+ run in 1955 ) Headspans Only used once so far in modern era of electrification at Rainhill, for sentimental reasons) Aesthetic - in view of the historic importance of the site the headspan structure was chosen as the only one which does not involve a horizontal boom. Portal structures seem to be used in otherwise headspan or cantilever territory where the ground is less able to support the transverse forces involved in the latter. Double-track cantilever is nothing new - here is an LBSCR one from 1908 |
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Post by rincew1nd on Oct 18, 2015 20:25:10 GMT
Twin Track Cantilevers (Like a portal, but with only 1 upright, lots of these on the GWML electrification project) Interesting how, in that picture, an existing gantry from the original electrification to Liverpool is replaced by a newer one. Apart from being a little beefier there's not much difference! |
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Post by phil on Oct 20, 2015 17:31:24 GMT
The freight only 'Tottenham Lines' from the Midland Mainline/Thameslink Carlton Road Junction (just North of Kentish Town Thameslink) through to Junction Road Jcn ( just west of Upper Holloway ) n T&H lines actually passes behind 'Murphys yard' at Kentish Town although most of the work is stated as being sub contracted out, having a base already in situ makes life easier. This section also planned to be electrified as part of the scheme which could provide some interesting journey opportunities in the future A very good reason for wiring it is the new Thameslink depot strategy which has all units being maintained by Siemens at their new depots at Three Bridges and Hornsey. The wiring of the MML - GOB link plus the curve at Harringay means stock transfers to the former have no need to go as far as St Pancras and reverse. While Bedford currently looks after the bulk of the Thameslink fleet - the site cannot accommodate 12 car units and is difficult to expand to do so (At least 50% of the new Thameslink fleet will be fixed formation 12 car units with no ability to split them into anything shorter outside of the depot environment), and also it doesn't fit with the strategy where Siemens take on all the risk of looking after the trains and receive financial penalties if they cannot meet the TOCs requirement to have a specified number of units in service per day. |
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Post by Deleted on Jan 4, 2016 12:13:17 GMT
Letters have been sent out to lineside residents giving details of the works. They intend on conducting noisy works piling for the catenary from 8am to 9pm Saturday/Sunday during November, between Gospel Oak and Crouch End stations. These will be accompanied by 24 hour vehicle movements. There is no schedule as to when particular areas will be done, just detail that they will be "moving up the line", with "a couple of hours severe noise" at each location. Which is not helpful for those working shifts! The rest of the branch will apparently be done by 2016, although I presume this is just piling the appropriate holes. Works continued over the Christmas Period www.camdennewjournal.com/xmaswork |
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Post by Deleted on Jan 25, 2016 13:47:03 GMT
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Post by stapler on Jan 25, 2016 14:00:11 GMT
8 months on the whole line seems really excessive. Half the line at a time (Walthamstow - are there any crossings left?) might work, to feed in at least to some alternative routes....
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Post by dazz285 on Jan 25, 2016 14:29:06 GMT
Not just for electrification but re signalling, platform upgrades etc...
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Post by snoggle on Jan 25, 2016 14:40:49 GMT
8 months on the whole line seems really excessive. Half the line at a time (Walthamstow - are there any crossings left?) might work, to feed in at least to some alternative routes.... Unless something has changed then I think the Standard doesn't have the full details. The Network Rail documents have long shown the blockades to be in two phases - one affecting Barking - South Tottenham section for a long time and then switching to a full closure for about three months. I can't see a TfL press release at the moment which is what I would have expected. There isn't a NR one either on its website. The quote from Mike Stubbs is also odd in that it seems he thinks the possession length is still being negotiated which I can't believe is the case now. I also find the Standard's description of the line as "neglected" is rather stupid. It's old sure but it's not been devoid of investment in recent years. EDIT - I have gone back and checked NR's rules of the route documents for East Anglia for 2016 and 2017. There are continuous weekend closures of the whole line through to end September. Barking - S Tott closes from June right through to 4 Feb 2017. S Tott- G Oak is fully closed from early October so a lot of disruption. The next closure is in March 2017 for the usual cyclical possessions that Network Rail have. Interestingly only the weekend closures show up on the TfL 6 months look ahead. |
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Post by domh245 on Jan 25, 2016 15:48:18 GMT
I must also wonder if the GOBLIN closure will be somewhat akin to a lot of TfL extended closures where the actual works are completed within a relatively short period of time, and then padded out to allow for testing and mishaps. If that were the case, it may well be reopened sooner, but I fear that being NR infrastructure, it is operating to their rather tight planning, and somehow this work will take several months to complete. Somebody one another forum estimated that the actual electrification could be completed within 3 weeks or so, although it would take longer to wire up the many junctions it comes across as you can't just turn off the power on the mainlines out of London in the middle of the week, which raises the question as to how long it takes to do the platform works, unless they are completely being rebuilt?
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Post by snoggle on Jan 25, 2016 16:28:45 GMT
I must also wonder if the GOBLIN closure will be somewhat akin to a lot of TfL extended closures where the actual works are completed within a relatively short period of time, and then padded out to allow for testing and mishaps. If that were the case, it may well be reopened sooner, but I fear that being NR infrastructure, it is operating to their rather tight planning, and somehow this work will take several months to complete. Somebody one another forum estimated that the actual electrification could be completed within 3 weeks or so, although it would take longer to wire up the many junctions it comes across as you can't just turn off the power on the mainlines out of London in the middle of the week, which raises the question as to how long it takes to do the platform works, unless they are completely being rebuilt? Err several platforms need lengthening and others need rehabilitation works to bring disused sections into use. Not a massive job if you've got the access but needs to be coordinated with whatever else is happening. Blackhorse Road is having Access for All works done. TfL is replacing the bridge at Upper Holloway so it will undoubtedly be using some of the time for that. This is noted in the NR posession documents. I suspect that further track lowering and bridge reconstruction is what will be taking the time but I also think that putting up the "knitting" on the long viaduct section at the east end will not be easy. Goodness knows what the viaduct asset condition is like and there are tenants in the arches at various points. |
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Post by spsmiler on Jan 25, 2016 23:17:33 GMT
wasnt there a long closure a few years ago for something? So now there are more very long closures?
This reminds me of the conversion of the East London Line... mucho pain for passengers.
What would sweeten the bitter pill is a schedule of works published for all to see. This way passengers will get to see just how much needs doing, why it takes so long, etc.
However, I bet this won't be done, because it *might* also show that whilst large sections of line are closed there are only a few workteams (comprising one man and his dog?) and that if there were many workteams the entire project could be completed in significantly less time.
btw, in Paris they converted an entire metro line to driverless operation whilst the trains were still running. Individual stations closed whilst the platform doors were installed but the core theme was to minimise the disruption to passengers (in London indifference or even the opposite seems to represent the plan of action)
Simon.
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Post by Chris M on Jan 26, 2016 1:32:39 GMT
The UK has much stricter approach to health and safety than France (in practice, I don't know about the legislation) which will affect some of what can be done. I suspect that France also didn't have the 20-odd years of effectively zero investment in infrastructure that we had in Britain that will affect how long things take.
With something like the Goblin it's probably not physically possible to do it without major inconvenience, and the choice is spending 8 months doing it this way or 3 years doing it piecemeal. The Goblin needs this upgrade at least 5 years ago, so leaving it another 3 isn't an option.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 26, 2016 7:06:22 GMT
Does this 8 month closure include weekdays?
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Post by spsmiler on Jan 26, 2016 9:41:51 GMT
Does this 8 month closure include weekdays? I would be absolutely flabbergasted if it did not. This is why I referenced the East London Line closure in my previous message. I just hope that the line does not suffer the same fate as the LNER Edgware - Finchley Central route which was closed for electrification and other building works but for the main part failed to reopen. Simon |
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Post by norbitonflyer on Jan 26, 2016 10:09:39 GMT
I just hope that the line does not suffer the same fate as the LNER Edgware - Finchley Central route which was closed for electrification and other building works but for the main part failed to reopen. It took a World War to stop that project. If WW3 does break out some time between now and next February I think electrification of the Goblin will be the least of our worries (although the first LSWR electrification was completed during WW1). |
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