Closure of ticket offices and changes to ticketing

The obvious comparison is with the DLR.
Never tried to buy a ticket on the DLR as I use Oyster.
Will, in fact, DLR machines sell through tickets to the NR network, as (eg) those on the Central Line do, via Stratford?
Pardon my ignorance!

I spotted a list of windows still left on the RMT website ,HTH

rmtlondoncalling.org.uk/content/rmt-continues-oppose-ticket-office-closures

You can buy a ticket from any NR station to any other NR station at any third NR station, but was this facility ever available from LU ticket offices?

You are fortunate in Harrow in having NR stations nearby as well as LU. So you could be able to buy the Am-GM ticket from any NR ticket office, such as the one at Harrow & Wealdstone. A Freedom pass means you can travel free (by bus) between H&W and HotH to actually catch the train. I admit this option would not be so easy if you were at, say, Moor Park.

You can also buy tickets from A to B online, although again you need to find a machine (at A, B or some random C) to collect them from

Or you can get off a train at Amersham and buy your ticket before the next Chiltern train catches up. You don't have to wait for the half hour between Chiltern trains of course - you can take an LU train to Amersham and buy the extension whilst waiting for the Chiltern.

Or you may be allowed to pay the fare on arrival at Missenden

Certainly the 'official' advice from LU staff is that you purchase the 'most appropriate' ticket from your originating station, which can then either be used as a part-exchange for the ticket you want, or you can purchase an entirely-new ticket at the first opportunity.

So, in the example of the OP's, it would not be appropriate to purchase any LU ticket from the machines as you already have a valid product that covers you to the LT boundary. The 'first opportunity' to buy would be the ticket window at Great Missenden, who should be able to sell you an Amersham-Great Missenden ticket (inc. return) without any trouble at all.

Indeed, I've been doing this myself on several occasions this week as I've been travelling up and down the former Metropolitan Railway routes. My staff pass covers me to Amersham, and I've been able to successfully purchase appropriate tickets at all of the stations between Great Missenden and Aylesbury - even at the latter where the are ticket barriers in force.

The situation is far from ideal, and a solution is apparently being implemented for all of the 'shared' stations. (Ex-Silverlink, Harrow, Ricky north, South Ruislip and West Ruislip, last I checked.)

According to my list, Cockfosters should be the last to close on 14th December. Whether this is the last, will be, or will be somewhere else, I don't yet know. In an earlier list, the last to close was to have been St. James's Park (a bit ironic!) at the end of February, but I guess this has already closed. The only ones to remain (for the time being) will be Queen's Park - Harrow, Kew Gardens and Gunnersbury until new machines are installed.

Gunnersbury, Kew Gardens, Queens Park, Kensal Green, Harlesden, Stonebridge Park, Wembley Central, North Wembley, South Kenton, Kenton and Harrow & Wealdstone are owned and staffed by London Underground.
Gunnersbury and Kew Gardens come under the Turnham Green group; Queens Park, Kensal Green, Harlesden, Stonebridge Park, North Wembley, South Kenton and Kenton come under the Stonebridge Park group; Wembley Central and Harrow & Wealdstone come under the Harrow & Wealdstone group.

Think you will find that the stations are leased by TfL rather than owned by them. The leases contain conditions.

The TfL Rail stations recently taken over have all been equipped with new ticket machines at the windows which can issue tickets to all NR destinations.

This doesn't mean they can always sell the cheapest fare.

Sorry I oversimplified - the Overground is part of the NR network (whose operation happens to funded by tfL, rather like those in the old metrocounties funded by Centro etc) and atre rewquirfed to issue the full range of NR tickets. Not quite ure how the rules work, as there are certainly some NR stations from which no tickets can be bought whatsoever - e.g Berney Arms

Well yes but that doesn't mean that TfL / LU dumped the National Rail retailing obligations when the stations transferred to them. AIUI you need Secretary of State consent to reduce / remove National Rail retailing. TfL is also obliged to undertake a public consultation - exactly as LOROL, London Midland and SWT had to do when they wanted to reduce ticket office hours / close some ticket offices. Boris has no power to wave a magic wand and make all this go away.

He could, but why would he think to do so? Looking through the telescope in the other direction, you can't buy a ticket for the Glasgow Subway ("the Clockwork Orange") or an Edinburgh tram from a Scotrail ticket office.

In both situations a passenger should obtain a new Oyster card first and foremost. If it is registered via Oyster the easiest thing is to contact the helpdesk to have products transferred to the new card. However, if the card has failed, SAs (with appropriate training) can transfer products over as a temporary measure, with the customer then having to contact the helpdesk for a permanent fix.



This is a relative non-issue. Let's start from the beginning. We have three ticket halls, meaning that queues rarely get to lengths of twenty minutes. The regular early crew, and most of the late crew (and those who work the roster), are very proactive in encouraging passengers further along the station, particularly if they're travelling from lines distant from their current location. The majority of users are clued up that Scottish banknotes won't work in the POMs, and the handful that get caught out generally decide to pay by card instead. Of those who are left, around half may go to a nearby cashpoint to withdraw money, and the remainder tend to meander over to the Visitor Centre, if they haven't already been there in the first place.

I do find fault with your "habitually loiter around" comment, though. Staff are *far* more useful outside of the offices. If there are no passengers requiring help on the machines, those staff are able to (And frequently do) assist with other matters at the station as required, often helping out staff and not stretching the workforce. If they are stuck behind a window, and there's no customers, they're stuck there. That is not of use to anyone if there's a run on the gateline of people needing assistance (It happens daily). Generally speaking my colleagues and I at King's Cross are very proactive if we have a duty that places us on the machines.



The majority of Chiltern's operations within London are run Driver Only, so there is no guard. Were there a guard on the service this is your 'first opportunity', even if you have to seek him out. There's nothing "silly" about that, and was standard practice on several companies outside of London last time I checked.

It may well and good in the busy stations for the need to have SA's or whatever they are called now to be in the ticket hall dealing with passengers wanting ticket. However what are the staff expected to do in station like Croxley or Chesham on a Sunday evening when you would be lucky to see a dozen people all night. Are they expected to stand in the ticket hall for the whole of their shift twiddling their thumbs. At least when they were based in an office they could keep an eye on the cctv systems. I should know what it's like I spent 6 years working at the north end of the Met.

Sorry if this is going to "annoy" you but my perception of going through ticket halls these days, especially busy ones like KX, ranges from one extreme to the other. I either see no staff around despite looking for them or they are in clusters at a gateline having a lovely chat amongst themselves. On going through Kings Cross I've seen no staff whatsoever at the ticket machines or the opposite of massive queues with one staff member shouting at queuing passengers to move to a machine. Now I know some passengers *might* need some encouragement to move to a machine but since when was shouting appropriate? I also note that your comment suggests there might be situations when queue times do exceed 20 minutes - I was shocked to see queues so long at the Northern ticket hall that they were doubled back on themselves and nearly blocking the gateline. Something's seriously wrong if a pretty spacious ticket hall can almost become blocked because of ticket queues.

One aspect that seriously concerns me about these changes is that closing ticket offices has removed a load of options for passengers that in the past were simplicity themselves. You asked the clerk to do something and they did it. Now no one at a station can do it. Where's the info for the passengers to tell them this? Examples are buy an Annual Bus and Tram Pass, have a Gold Card issued and discount set in one transaction, get higher value refunds, get a proper print out of your Oyster card details etc. Someone sitting in a nice "process team" has decided that the way to treat passengers forking out massive sums of money is not to accept their business at stations at all! That's going to be fun in a couple of weeks with the usual ticket renewal surge.

I'm sure you are diligent but not all LU workers are - for a whole load of reasons. I've worked with and managed some of them in times past! Having stood in ticket halls for hours on end doing customer service duties I know it can range from manic to deadly dull. On freezing cold nights out in the suburbs the temptation to "disappear" from public view must be very strong for some employees.

Rev, wouldn't Barking to Upminster be the Wild East?
Jack - what's all this about products? LU don't produce anything. They run a service that Joe Public has to pay to use!
Tomcakes, bewildered in the kilt could also go to the oyster ticket shop across the road. IME the gent there is always willing to accept money, in whatever denomination!