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Post by trt on Oct 16, 2015 11:35:28 GMT
Talks on the Night Tube have collapsed as Unions have not reached a deal, looks like the service may not start this year. That's OK. It gives them a little while longer to put in the various internal gates and barriers required at part-served stations. As it was, on Sept 12th, I think Boris just wanted to let people wander freely throughout stations that were part handed over to engineering or something. |
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Post by Red Dragon on Oct 17, 2015 13:49:59 GMT
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Chris M
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Post by Chris M on Oct 17, 2015 14:01:39 GMT
Look what Diamond Geezer has found... 12) No routine announcements will be made overnight at stations located above ground level, where there is the potential for householders to be disturbed. Where these stations still have older information systems which do not tell customers when the next train is due, "station staff will need to add manual information to the system." So why make the routine announcements during the day if they are not necessary? |
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Post by norbitonflyer on Oct 17, 2015 14:11:27 GMT
12) No routine announcements will be made overnight at stations located above ground level, where there is the potential for householders to be disturbed. So why make the routine announcements during the day if they are not necessary? A balance has to be struck - announcements are desirable (rather than essential) but so is letting people sleep. And maybe the expected clientele at 4am are more likely to be familiar with the system anyway. There are also some announcements that will not be necessary at night - for example in the daytime there are two Central Line branches in the east but at night there will only be one so there is, arguably, no need to tell people where the next train is going. |
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Post by domh245 on Oct 17, 2015 14:32:56 GMT
I'm interested in seeing what the night tube in-car diagrams will look like! Presumably, they will only indicate the routes over which they will operate at night, but I feel this may cause confusion during the day. I'd have thought it would be easier to use the same maps as normal, but with some kind of addition to show the routes were night tube will be.
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Chris M
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Post by Chris M on Oct 17, 2015 14:47:12 GMT
I'm interested in seeing what the night tube in-car diagrams will look like! Presumably, they will only indicate the routes over which they will operate at night, but I feel this may cause confusion during the day. I'd have thought it would be easier to use the same maps as normal, but with some kind of addition to show the routes were night tube will be. Perhaps an owl icon in a similar manner to the NR/River/Airport interchange icon could be placed adjacent to stations served by the night tube. |
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Post by domh245 on Oct 17, 2015 15:06:53 GMT
Oddly enough, that was my first thought, but I feel that could lead to a very cluttered map. My latest idea would be to have a secondary line (in the TfL tramlines style but with a black (or white in the case of the Northern) centrepart) running underneath the existing line, but the ideal solution would be some digital displays that can show only the route the train is taking on it's immediate journey, but we know that isn't going to happen!
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Post by stapler on Oct 17, 2015 15:46:31 GMT
I like the delightful euphemism, spillage.
Presumably the translation is "pools of vomit"?
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Post by Red Dragon on Oct 17, 2015 16:30:41 GMT
but the ideal solution would be some digital displays that can show only the route the train is taking on it's immediate journey, but we know that isn't going to happen! Yet. *ahem* New tube for London *ahem* Which will probably be nothing like the promotion version. I hope the real version doesn't get its lines mixed up. |
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Post by Red Dragon on Oct 17, 2015 16:32:09 GMT
I like the delightful euphemism, spillage. Presumably the translation is "pools of vomit"? Like customer incident, or staffing issues (respectively one under and severe shortage of staff which LU had seen coming for many years). |
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Post by John Tuthill on Oct 17, 2015 17:07:22 GMT
I like the delightful euphemism, spillage. Presumably the translation is "pools of vomit"? How about sponsored sick bags? |
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Post by whistlekiller2000 on Oct 17, 2015 17:55:59 GMT
I like the delightful euphemism, spillage. Presumably the translation is "pools of vomit"? How about sponsored sick bags? I've always thought the word "euphemism" sounds remarkably like the act of using the big white telephone. In all seriousness I do think that we're in danger of bestowing a level of ignorance on the travelling public that isn't actually deserved. Most of them, whether resident or tourist, have access to the Internet or advice from others and like I do when planning a journey, are perfectly capable of looking after themselves. An owl sign on participating line maps for stations involved - alongside night tube diagrams at relevant stations, as mentioned above, is probably the best and most easily understood way for those otherwise unable to plan ahead. |
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Post by rsdworker on Oct 17, 2015 18:33:55 GMT
well LED signs would be easier - so the LED maps would automatically change to night tube and day time tube so customers would not be confused with day time tube maps - stations that run 24 hours would have green light at entrances showing which entrance is open - while red means entrance closed - orange - part time but this feature would used in day time as well example some entrances close earlier than Line/station end time
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Post by superteacher on Dec 19, 2015 11:57:19 GMT
This has gone a bit quiet recently. Any news from anybody?
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Post by Dstock7080 on Dec 19, 2015 16:32:33 GMT
Negotiations have stalled and will restart in the New Year, the Unions are likely to announce their next intentions at those meetings.
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londoner
thinking on '73 stock
Posts: 480 
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Post by londoner on Dec 20, 2015 1:06:24 GMT
TFL must still be optimistic (though I use the term loosely) considering that Piccadilly line stock train still has the night tube decor on it.
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Post by phoenixcronin on Dec 20, 2015 18:33:32 GMT
TFL must still be optimistic (though I use the term loosely) considering that Piccadilly line stock train still has the night tube decor on it. There are also signs such as "Bank Branch (No Night Tube service)" |
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Post by MoreToJack on Dec 21, 2015 4:23:48 GMT
TFL must still be optimistic (though I use the term loosely) considering that Piccadilly line stock train still has the night tube decor on it. There are also signs such as "Bank Branch (No Night Tube service) There are numerous stickers and signs located around the Combine referring to the Night Tube service (or lack of), including some in places you wouldn't expect them - I'll try and sort some photos out later, if I remember! (Which I won't, the number of threads where I say the same shows this.  ) The vast majority of these signs appeared after the supposed-launch of Night Tube, likewise for many of the gates and closures installed for quarantining stations. Some *still* have NT works outstanding (even though we're 'operationally ready') three months after the supposed launch. And then let's not even mention things like signalling modifications that remain outstanding... Back to the most recent aspect of the topic: staff are being told March for go-live by management, but that's optimistic for reasons already stated above. Some are suggesting that the rules regarding electoral purdah prevent any launch after mid-January until the polls have closed. One of our unions reps is suggesting 2017. In short: it's anyone's guess at this moment in time. |
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Post by sawb on Dec 21, 2015 10:52:44 GMT
Considering TfL effectively cancelled a load of consultations earlier this year, mostly related to different bus routes, I can't see Night Tube starting until the summer at the earliest, purely because of the rules around purdah. As of 0:01 this morning, the "long campaign" officially started for the London mayoral elections, as did the campaigns for local councils, and the Welsh and Scottish parliaments. As others have said, don't expect anything antyime soon!
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Post by jamesb on Dec 28, 2015 20:13:21 GMT
Apologies MoreToJack - I didn't see this thread when I started the other one - my first locking in 9 years!
What has gone wrong with the whole thing?
The recent silence from Boris suggests to me that city hall underestimated the complexity of the task and have back-tracked spectacularly - the unions, knock on effects on other services, like buses, amongst others. Also, it could bring more antisocial behaviour to areas that are currently relatively quiet and trouble free at night. The local council in my area in Essex turn off the street lights during the early hours to save money. But if the tube will be connecting people to stations, it isn't very connected up to have the streets outside the station in total darkness (e.g. Buckhurst Hill)
Or is it that Londoner's aren't really that bothered?!
The night buses are very good generally, as are minicab services like Uber - which is relatively cheap and easy to use.
Something fishy has gone on with this - beyond the unions threatening to call strikes! I wonder if the mayor has become impotent to the idea and it will die a slow death....
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pitdiver
No longer gainfully employed
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Post by pitdiver on Dec 28, 2015 20:32:58 GMT
Perhaps Londoners AREN'T really interested after all as has been said above. As I don't live in London any more so I am not in tune with the feelings on the ground. If there was a lot of interest surely there would be hundreds of very irate potential "Night Tube" passengers banging on BJ's door or is there. Does Boris not care any more as he won't be the Mayor for much longer
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Post by jamesb on Dec 28, 2015 20:41:32 GMT
Yes - why not invest the money earmarked for the night tube to increase night buses?
I smell a big white elephant in the making haha
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Post by peterc on Dec 28, 2015 20:45:07 GMT
Judging by the general exodus that I often see at events at around 10:30 about 40% of punters either think that the tube packs up at around 11 or are more concerned either with early finish of services from NR terminals or of connecting buses for the last 2 miles of their journey home.
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Post by jamesb on Dec 28, 2015 20:50:18 GMT
I also think that a lot of people like the excuse of having to catch the last tube to get home and go to bed! I have used it myself on occasions  |
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Post by Tubeboy on Dec 28, 2015 20:55:52 GMT
RMT is resuming its opposition to the night tube, fit for future and pay (as the company won't separate the issues) by introducing an overtime ban from Sunday 3rd Jan.
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Post by stapler on Dec 28, 2015 22:08:42 GMT
jamesb, although Buckhurst Hill and Loughton are Night Tube stations where the street lights in residential streets currently go off at 0100, the county councillor for Loughton has several times requested they be kept on on Fri-Sat for the NT, and surprisingly, had a reasonably encouraging reply that ECC would reconsider.
Loughton in particular has a night-time economy of the Towie type, so I suspect NT would be used by those travelling southbound in the small hours too; at the moment they are subject to the exactions of minicabs and exorbitant fares.
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Post by jamesb on Dec 28, 2015 22:23:07 GMT
ah thats a relief, stapler! its annoying that my parents street is in darkness - and its hard to drive and see people on the pavement. but if a tube carriage holds 1000 people, for example, it surely will be for a minority of people who travel eastbound in the small hours?
i agree that it would be handy for the extreme ends of the line - night buses generally go as far as woodford high road , or at least they did when i was younger...!
but couldn't they just spend the money on new bus routes instead? like a semi fast service from central london calling at a few intermediate stations towards epping, for example? using existing buses, and existing bus drivers, who could choose whether or not they want to work these shifts?
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Post by stapler on Dec 29, 2015 8:08:35 GMT
The night bus route (N96?) served BH, Loughton and Debden till about 1998 (some bus enthusiast wlll doubtless have the date exactly) when it was curtailed at Woodford Wells.
I guess Loughton was chosen as the NT terminus as a reversal and booking on/off point?
A tube carriage doesn't hold a thousand (mind you, it feels like it between Leyton and Stratford some mornings) - a whole Central Line 92TS train seats 288. You see about 30-40 emerge at Loughton from the last trains. Epping and BH would be about the same. Theydon Bois has no street lighting anyway, so you emerge from the tube train into total darkness even at 5 this time of year! The local politicians got ECC to alter the switch off time such that only 2 trains now arrive in the dark hours. Lights are on near the stations and in the shopping streets, but not in the residential areas. Believe it's worse in the Hertfordshire stations on the Met etc, but that's not affected by NT
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DWS
every second count's
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Post by DWS on Dec 29, 2015 9:18:11 GMT
RMT is resuming its opposition to the night tube, fit for future and pay (as the company won't separate the issues) by introducing an overtime ban from Sunday 3rd Jan. Can't see much support for a overtime ban in January, staff will have to pay off bills, credit cards, etc on all the spending over Christmas and New Year. |
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Post by norbitonflyer on Dec 29, 2015 11:18:59 GMT
The night bus route (N96?) served BH, Loughton and Debden till about 1998 (some bus enthusiast wlll doubtless have the date exactly) when it was curtailed at Woodford Wells. N96 (Trafalgar Square - Chingford - Woodford Wells - Debden) was withdrawn on 14/7/95, to be replaced in part by new route N38 (Trafalgar Square - Chingford) and revised N8 (Trafalgar Square to Woodford Wells) |
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