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Post by sawb on May 14, 2015 10:45:01 GMT
Thought I'd start a thread for questions related to the August Walthamstow blockade and the preparatory works for it.
From the weekly closures email:
"This weekend there will be no service between Seven Sisters and Walthamstow Central. This is to allow for the installation of a temporary crane to prepare for future work."
Just wondering, where is the crane going to be stored between installation this weekend and the start of the blockade in August? Surely there is nowhere in the tunnels for it to be stored?
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Post by Harsig on May 14, 2015 12:08:17 GMT
If I were to guess, I'd suspect that the crane is to be installed into the crown of the tunnel that forms the crossover cavern. There ought to be enough headroom there for it to remain permanently in position while train pass beneath.
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Post by stapler on May 15, 2015 14:30:51 GMT
Why is the blockade for so long?
Have LOROL yet confirmed whether Chingfords will be 8 cars all day?
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North End
Beneath Newington Causeway
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Post by North End on May 15, 2015 23:47:45 GMT
If I were to guess, I'd suspect that the crane is to be installed into the crown of the tunnel that forms the crossover cavern. There ought to be enough headroom there for it to remain permanently in position while train pass beneath. Engineering notice refers to installation of a gantry crane in the tunnel crown. |
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Post by crusty54 on May 16, 2015 3:53:52 GMT
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Tom
Administrator
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Post by Tom on May 24, 2015 22:43:04 GMT
Why is the blockade for so long? Have LOROL yet confirmed whether Chingfords will be 8 cars all day? Deep tube Points and Crossings renewal usually takes a few weeks to do any more than one point end; once the rails themselves are removed the old concrete needs to be broken out using pneumatic drills, before the new is poured and set taking into account the new trackform. The deep tube P&C I've been involved in usually took place over two or three weekends to renew just a single set of points; the last time a whole crossover was renewed was at Brixton in 2000 which took about three weeks. |
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Post by snoggle on Jun 23, 2015 18:22:24 GMT
There has been a Mayor's Question and Answer on the topic of the upcoming blockade. No surprises about the rail replacement buses but I am a tad bemused about more Charing Cross Northern Line services and asking AGA about them running more trains but no comments about, for example, running longer Overground trains outside the rush hour on Chingford services.
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Post by seaeagle on Jun 23, 2015 19:28:04 GMT
London Underground staff will meet customers at the affected stations to provide further information. Hope someone is going to tell London Underground staff what's going on, no one has told me a thing yet, mind you as I work there why would I need to know. I learnt more off your posting on here! |
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Post by rheostar on Jun 24, 2015 8:04:12 GMT
London Underground staff will meet customers at the affected stations to provide further information. Hope someone is going to tell London Underground staff what's going on, no one has told me a thing yet, mind you as I work there why would I need to know. I learnt more off your posting on here! Ain't that the truth!! lol |
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Post by snoggle on Jun 29, 2015 9:15:52 GMT
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Post by will on Jun 29, 2015 10:42:00 GMT
Does anyone know what the service frequency is likely to be in the peak?
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Post by norbitonflyer on Jun 29, 2015 11:35:17 GMT
Looks like the public campaign about the blockade has started. I was on the Victoria Line on Saturday and noticed that the in-car maps have stickers showing the service (or lack of it) during the shutdown. I was also struck by the uselessness of the "Interchange for Overground" markers at that end of the line. There are of course five (including Euston) but no indication whatsoever of which interchange is useful for which of the Overground's six lines. I was not impressed with the in-car announcements, detailing at every stop that there were closures on lines a long way away, whilst signalling failing to mention that NR services at Kings Cross (on my way out) and Vauxhall (on my way back) were disrupted. (Had I known, I would have gone to Tottenham Hale/Waterloo* instead) NR services give updates on what TfL is up to - why not the other way round? * Yes I know Waterloo is on the same line as Vauxhall. But SWT's favourite trick to "restore the service" is to run trains non-stop from Waterloo to Zone 5, which is indeed what they did. |
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Post by snoggle on Jun 29, 2015 12:10:15 GMT
Looks like the public campaign about the blockade has started. I was on the Victoria Line on Saturday and noticed that the in-car maps have stickers showing the service (or lack of it) during the shutdown. I was also struck by the uselessness of the "Interchange for Overground" markers at that end of the line. There are of course five (including Euston) but no indication whatsoever of which interchange is useful for which of the Overground's six lines. I read so many posts about maps, diagrams etc about the rail network on different forums that I have concluded it is completely impossible to satisfy everybody's demands as to how things could be perfect if only each individual's preferences were implemented. I'm fortunate in that I understand where the tube goes and also where the Overground goes and therefore I don't have a problem with the way the network is presented on diagrams. I understand your comment but there's not going to be a quick resolution as to how Overground lines are presented to the public. I have been looking at the detail of the replacement bus services and I don't know who designed the passenger comms but it's lacking in the requisite detail. Some of the stop descriptions are also wrong - I've already tweeted TfL to tell them. 1. There are no maps as to where you catch the rail replacement services. 2. Descriptions of stop locations at Seven Sisters / South Tottenham mix up Tottenham High Road and Seven Sisters Road (based on the stop letter codes) 3. There is no statement as to the stop you use for the RRS on the w/b RRS. I think it will be on Ferry Lane but it would be helpful if it said so. 4. It appears the RRS won't serve Tottenham Hale Bus Station but the temporary 558 bus will. Seems a bit confusing and likely to mean scheduled bus services get overloaded rather than the RRS taking the strain. 5. There is no stop code info for the Stratford International stop on RRS service B. 6. RRS Service B doesn't serve St James St Station directly - you have to walk to Markhouse Road. 7. It seems that access using the new footpath link between Queens Rd Station and Walthamstow Central will be prevented because the car park at WWCS will be completely closed to allow RRS buses to use it instead. This is implied in the info about WWCS but is not stated overtly and consistently. Worse the map showing "busy lines" on the advice page shows the interchange still exists even though the most convenient route will be closed and there's no advice on alternative walking routes. 8. There is no clarity about the start and finish times for each Rail Replacement service and temporary service 558. 9. There is no alternative location given for the minicab office at Walthamstow that is being temporarily closed because of the RRS using the car park. The above are all fairly simple requirements and I'm amazed they have been dealt with satisfactorily in the published information or the design of the services. |
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Post by sawb on Jun 29, 2015 13:10:00 GMT
Just to add a little extra spice into the mix, there is of course the small matter of the European hockey championships at the Olympic Park from 22nd-30th August!
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Post by Tomcakes on Jun 29, 2015 13:21:37 GMT
Is there any news on exactly what form this "reduced service" will take? Will the usual Seven Sisters reversers be taken out of the timetable and the one platform then be enough for the trains which would have gone on to Walthamstow? It does sound tight with only one platform - presumably there will be plenty of staff on the platform at Seven Sisters for tipout duties, and stepping back?
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Post by Red Dragon on Jun 29, 2015 15:54:29 GMT
Looks like the public campaign about the blockade has started. NR services give updates on what TfL is up to - why not the other way round? At my local station (Palmers Green), they do give us information, but it is usually rubbish (something along the lines of "This is a London Underground service update. There are disruptions on some routes. Please go to tfl.gov.uk for more infomation). What use is that? Especially at weekends when there's engineering work, you may as well look on your phone. I would do that anyway, especially after I heard "There is a good service on all TfL routes", just after leaving a closed Southgate tube station after a one-under. |
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Post by Hassaan on Jun 30, 2015 1:02:33 GMT
Looks like the public campaign about the blockade has started. I was on the Victoria Line on Saturday and noticed that the in-car maps have stickers showing the service (or lack of it) during the shutdown. I was also struck by the uselessness of the "Interchange for Overground" markers at that end of the line. There are of course five (including Euston) but no indication whatsoever of which interchange is useful for which of the Overground's six lines. I was not impressed with the in-car announcements, detailing at every stop that there were closures on lines a long way away, whilst signalling failing to mention that NR services at Kings Cross (on my way out) and Vauxhall (on my way back) were disrupted. (Had I known, I would have gone to Tottenham Hale/Waterloo* instead) NR services give updates on what TfL is up to - why not the other way round? * Yes I know Waterloo is on the same line as Vauxhall. But SWT's favourite trick to "restore the service" is to run trains non-stop from Waterloo to Zone 5, which is indeed what they did. , but it is well hidden and not very detailed (although haven't really checked it for a while). I'm surprised TfL even do that, given how they try and hide the "National Rail" lines in London (look how difficult it is to find a "London's Rail & Tube Services" map, especially one as a fold-out A2 leafet), as well as hiding the fact that LO is still National Rail  . As for the SWT service recovery, I'm a fan of that trick. I've seen a 26 late start to a Weybridge via Hounslow service recovered to just 4 late after running non-stop to Staines via Richmond, as one example. And it affected me going to Hounslow, which I deserved for ditching the via Richmond service  . Even Liverpool Street LO are doing it, something I didn't expect to see. |
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Post by norbitonflyer on Jun 30, 2015 6:41:07 GMT
TfL's website does give some info, but it is well hidden and not very detailed . and no use if you are already on the Victoria Line and need to know to carrying on to Tottenham Hale or divert to Waterloo (as the case may be) As for the SWT service recovery, I'm a fan of that trick. I've seen a 26 late start to a Weybridge via Hounslow service recovered to just 4 late after running non-stop to Staines via Richmond, as one example. Used well, it can be effective. But it is too often used as a way of "recovering" the service to the detriment of actually providing a service. If the train is so late that the following service is about to leave, it is a good way of distributing passengers between the two trains. But in your example, you may have caught up 22 of your 26 by Staines, but passengers for, or from, loop stations have been delayed even more as, for them, the service was cancelled. In the example on Saturday, my train home ran through Vauxhall non-stop. Doubtless it got to its first stop at Norbiton closer to right time (and back to Waterloo even closer), but as the following train was itself 15 minutes late, passengers from Vauxhall, CJ and Wimbledon to the loop were delayed by 30 minutes - not good on a thirty minute journey. (and of course if Victoria Line control had bothered to tell us about these issues, instead of the closure between Gunnersbury and Richmond, and somewhere on the Goblin, I could have baled out at Oxford Circus and gone to Waterloo, where I would have caught it) The other favourite trick for "recovering the service" is to terminate trains in the bay at Kingston. Not only does this delay anyone on board by fifteen minutes waiting for the next one (or thirty if they can't squeeze on that next one), but passengers from Waterloo to Shepperton are advised to "change at Kingston" - not helpful when the last connecting service will have already left 15 minutes before the scheduled time of the service they were intending to catch. |
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Post by snoggle on Jul 25, 2015 9:00:48 GMT
Looks like TfL are now tweaking the arrangements and / or leaving the really bad news to the last minute. Checking the travel advice page again last night the following has emerged. These changes apply 10-28 August. I assume the first two points below apply M-F but the advice doesn't say so!!! - St James St Station is exit only until 0930 - Chingford Line trains will not stop at Clapton before 0930. No word about any replacement services. I can't see this being acceptable unless AGA trains stop instead. - AGA trains will not stop at Edmonton Green during AM peak hours. - Trains are retimed 2 mins earlier in the AM Peak at Chingford, Highams Park and Wood Street. Presumably to give a longer dwell time at Walthamstow Central. - Enfield Town/Bush Hill Park departures are earlier in the AM peak. Presumably to give an increased dwell time at Edmonton Green. Apparently more detailed advice will be added. TfL are leaving this rather late for people to understand what's going on and making alternative arrangements.  It seems the Rail Replacement Buses will be leaving from the Station Car Park at Walthamstow Central. Route A will also stop at Hoe St (by the new shops / cinema). |
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Post by stapler on Jul 25, 2015 14:55:52 GMT
TFL really haven't covered themselves with glory over this, have they - nor with the ill-fated Walthamstow cage.
As Snoggle says, why do they think stopping hundreds of Clapton and St J St commuters getting to work is a good idea?
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Tom
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Post by Tom on Jul 26, 2015 18:31:37 GMT
Is there any news on exactly what form this "reduced service" will take? Will the usual Seven Sisters reversers be taken out of the timetable and the one platform then be enough for the trains which would have gone on to Walthamstow? It does sound tight with only one platform - presumably there will be plenty of staff on the platform at Seven Sisters for tipout duties, and stepping back? The timetable is out, but I can't say I've really looked at it. Peak headways seem pretty similar, with reversing using both 62 and 63 roads at Seven Sisters, double end working. On arrival back in Seven Sisters SB platform the train operator in the north end cab gets off and steps back up to seven trains. |
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Post by peterc on Jul 27, 2015 0:36:28 GMT
Just had a look at the journey planner. That shows morning peak departures available from St James Street but Clapton closed all day. Interesting to note that the timings for the replacement bus from Walthamstow to Seven Sisters allow 2 minutes longer for a Sunday daytime journey than one in the Monday to Friday peak.
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Post by snoggle on Jul 27, 2015 8:45:27 GMT
Just had a look at the journey planner. That shows morning peak departures available from St James Street but Clapton closed all day. Interesting to note that the timings for the replacement bus from Walthamstow to Seven Sisters allow 2 minutes longer for a Sunday daytime journey than one in the Monday to Friday peak. Given the massive traffic jams at Tottenham Hale Retail Park at weekends that's probably an entirely rational bit of timetabling. |
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Post by norbitonflyer on Jul 27, 2015 10:06:13 GMT
Just had a look at the journey planner. That shows morning peak departures available from St James Street but Clapton closed all day. Which journey planner are you looking at? Both the TfL and National Rail journey planners show both stations open throughout the morning peak during the work, whilst if you delve in to the right part of the Victoria Line upgrade page on the TfL site you find that St James Street is exit only (so only arrivals should be shown, and not departures), whilst Clapton is closed altogether - in both cases only until 0930. St James Street is reasonably close to alternatives at Walthamstow Central, and it may be sensible to encourage everyone to use Central as you would stand so little chance of actually getting on at St James that it's better to trek to Central and join the queues there. Clapton is harder to justify, the nearest alternatives are Rectory Road (whose trains will be coping with the refugees from the Victoria Line at Seven Sisters) Lea Bridge (!), and the two in Hackney, none of which arc particularly helpful for getting to Liverpool Street, and totally useless if you are headed for Walthamstow, Chingford, or the Lea Valley. |
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Post by peterc on Jul 27, 2015 11:07:36 GMT
When I looked at the TfL journey planner yesterday it gave me DEPARTURES from St James Street throughout the morning peak. All journeys requested from Clapton were routed via Rectory Road ALL DAY. These were for journeys to zone 1 tube stations not explicitly LST.
I was not commenting on the decisions regarding access to these stations only that the journey planner was, in one case, telling me that I could use a station when I couldn't and on the other sending me by an alternative route when the station would be open.
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Post by stapler on Jul 27, 2015 11:21:09 GMT
And still nothing known as to whether all Chingfords will be 8 cars throughout the day!?
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Post by norbitonflyer on Jul 27, 2015 12:31:18 GMT
When I looked at the TfL journey planner yesterday it gave me DEPARTURES from St James Street throughout the morning peak. All journeys requested from Clapton were routed via Rectory Road ALL DAY. These were for journeys to zone 1 tube stations not explicitly LST. I was not commenting on the decisions regarding access to these stations only that the journey planner was, in one case, telling me that I could use a station when I couldn't and on the other sending me by an alternative route when the station would be open. Where are you looking? I've just checked the TfL planner on various dates duriing the shutdown (August 10th, 13th, 18th, at 0830 and 0900) Comes up with direct LO trains from St J St to Clapton and from Clapton to St J St. Also shows route from Clapton to Z1 station (specifically Aldgate) by using Overground to Liverpool Street. |
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Post by peterc on Jul 27, 2015 15:40:18 GMT
In other words you have got some different wrong answers to me. Results for Clapton have changed since last night.
Either they have changed the arrangements for Overground services and are going to pick up at St James Street and Clapton despite statements to the contrary or the journey planner is wrong.
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Dom K
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Post by Dom K on Jul 28, 2015 8:31:23 GMT
Just tweeted AGA (who responded within 2 mins!) that there maybe formation changes ahead of the Victoria line closure, but not confirmed. I specifically asked about Stratford route.
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Post by snoggle on Jul 29, 2015 20:27:17 GMT
TfL have further update the relevant page for blockade information.
There are now location specific leaflets giving relevant travel advice. There are also maps showing stops for bus services. The only change I've spotted is the addition of extra peak buses on routes 97 and 158.
There is a bit of tidying up about the precise days and hours when trains aren't serving specific stations or stations are exit only. However someone at TfL needs to re-read the information and make it clear that many of the arrangements presumably only apply M-F in the AM peak and not at the other times. The wording is hopelessly imprecise in some places.
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. Even Liverpool Street LO are doing it, something I didn't expect to see.
