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Post by uzairjubilee on Oct 2, 2013 15:24:24 GMT
On my way from Fulham Broadway to Wimbledon today, I got off at Parsons Green to take a few pictures of the S Stock that was in the siding. I was on the platform for a maximum of 2 minutes before an announcement came on the PA directed at me saying to stop taking pictures as photography on the Underground is prohibited. I stopped taking pictures but was quite annoyed that whoever made the announcement said photography is prohibited, as if it is for personal use and if you're just passing through the station then there are no problems. I was not using flash or a tripod. I went down to the ticket gates to find whoever made the announcement and the Station Supervisor took me in to his office and said I need a permit. I told him I was just passing through and I was only on the platform for a couple of minutes before you made the announcement but he looked through a Traffic Circular booklet and I think it did say you need a permit to take pictures, and he didn't know what my intentions were and did not know how long I spent on the platform. I said I have been doing this for a long time and never been stopped by anyone. He then insisted on having a permit and I just kept saying that for the photography I do, I do not need a permit. He then said I should have come down to the Supervisor and informed him that I would be on the platform for a couple of minutes, which I don't agree with if I'm simply passing through the station. I said that I have a printout of something from the TfL website at home saying if passing through the station, photography is permitted - "If you are just passing through, you shouldn't have a problem taking personal snaps, souvenir shots etc. although you must NOT use flash or lights on any of our platforms. However, if you want to spend more than 10-15 minutes at any one station videoing or taking photos, or if they are for professional use, you MUST have a permit." He responded saying London Underground isn't TfL. I said LU is part of TfL, then he said they're still not the same, there are rules and regulations which can be slightly twisted though. At the end he said in future to just let the Station Supervisor know what you are doing.
Opinions?
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Post by John Tuthill on Oct 2, 2013 16:13:46 GMT
On my way from Fulham Broadway to Wimbledon today, I got off at Parsons Green to take a few pictures of the S Stock that was in the siding. I was on the platform for a maximum of 2 minutes before an announcement came on the PA directed at me saying to stop taking pictures as photography on the Underground is prohibited. I stopped taking pictures but was quite annoyed that whoever made the announcement said photography is prohibited, as if it is for personal use and if you're just passing through the station then there are no problems. I was not using flash or a tripod. I went down to the ticket gates to find whoever made the announcement and the Station Supervisor took me in to his office and said I need a permit. I told him I was just passing through and I was only on the platform for a couple of minutes before you made the announcement but he looked through a Traffic Circular booklet and I think it did say you need a permit to take pictures, and he didn't know what my intentions were and did not know how long I spent on the platform. I said I have been doing this for a long time and never been stopped by anyone. He then insisted on having a permit and I just kept saying that for the photography I do, I do not need a permit. He then said I should have come down to the Supervisor and informed him that I would be on the platform for a couple of minutes, which I don't agree with if I'm simply passing through the station. I said that I have a printout of something from the TfL website at home saying if passing through the station, photography is permitted - "If you are just passing through, you shouldn't have a problem taking personal snaps, souvenir shots etc. although you must NOT use flash or lights on any of our platforms. However, if you want to spend more than 10-15 minutes at any one station videoing or taking photos, or if they are for professional use, you MUST have a permit." He responded saying London Underground isn't TfL. I said LU is part of TfL, then he said they're still not the same, there are rules and regulations which can be slightly twisted though. At the end he said in future to just let the Station Supervisor know what you are doing. Opinions? It used to be, someone correct me if I'm wrong, but the stations south of Putney bridge were under the control of Network Rail. are they still under the control of the National Railway/Southwest Trains, or are they all TFL? I've taken pictures from the 'Southwest trains' platforms at Wimbledon, whilst sitting down. No one challenged me |
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class411
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Post by class411 on Oct 2, 2013 16:40:35 GMT
This gives me a feeling of Deja Vu!
Many many years ago one of my colleagues was a train nutter. Not a rail wenthusiast or a train spotter, a complete nut job when it came to trains.
Every lunch hour he would go to Paddington (or, 'Pad' as he called it') in case there were any Western class locos there. (Last diesel hydraulic locos on BR). If there was one he would not come back from work because he would buy a ticket and go wherever it was going.
Anyway, that is just background.
Naturally he was just as interested in the underground and would travel around taking photographs of stations and stock. He'd been doing this for some considerable time when suddenly situations like the above started happening left right and centre. Someone at LU had evidently decided to enforce an extant rule and all the photographers were being hassled.
That was about 1974 and it looks as if they have decided to have another go.
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Chris M
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Post by Chris M on Oct 2, 2013 16:46:48 GMT
Photography is permitted in the circumstances you were in. If a member of station staff tells you otherwise, get their name, note the and the station and make an official complaint.
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Post by Dstock7080 on Oct 2, 2013 17:10:56 GMT
It used to be, someone correct me if I'm wrong, but the stations south of Putney bridge were under the control of Network Rail. are they still under the control of the National Railway/Southwest Trains, or are they all TFL? I've taken pictures from the 'Southwest trains' platforms at Wimbledon, whilst sitting down. No one challenged me Since 1994 East Putney, Southfields and Wimbledon Park have been LU stations and LU own the track and infrastructure (stations/signals/bridges/embankments) from Putney Bridge to just outside Wimbledon. Network Rail provide the traction power supply and control the signalling. LU contract NR to maintain the signals. |
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North End
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Post by North End on Oct 2, 2013 17:13:51 GMT
On my way from Fulham Broadway to Wimbledon today, I got off at Parsons Green to take a few pictures of the S Stock that was in the siding. I was on the platform for a maximum of 2 minutes before an announcement came on the PA directed at me saying to stop taking pictures as photography on the Underground is prohibited. I stopped taking pictures but was quite annoyed that whoever made the announcement said photography is prohibited, as if it is for personal use and if you're just passing through the station then there are no problems. I was not using flash or a tripod. I went down to the ticket gates to find whoever made the announcement and the Station Supervisor took me in to his office and said I need a permit. I told him I was just passing through and I was only on the platform for a couple of minutes before you made the announcement but he looked through a Traffic Circular booklet and I think it did say you need a permit to take pictures, and he didn't know what my intentions were and did not know how long I spent on the platform. I said I have been doing this for a long time and never been stopped by anyone. He then insisted on having a permit and I just kept saying that for the photography I do, I do not need a permit. He then said I should have come down to the Supervisor and informed him that I would be on the platform for a couple of minutes, which I don't agree with if I'm simply passing through the station. I said that I have a printout of something from the TfL website at home saying if passing through the station, photography is permitted - "If you are just passing through, you shouldn't have a problem taking personal snaps, souvenir shots etc. although you must NOT use flash or lights on any of our platforms. However, if you want to spend more than 10-15 minutes at any one station videoing or taking photos, or if they are for professional use, you MUST have a permit." He responded saying London Underground isn't TfL. I said LU is part of TfL, then he said they're still not the same, there are rules and regulations which can be slightly twisted though. At the end he said in future to just let the Station Supervisor know what you are doing. Opinions? The member of staff is incorrect. As per recent Traffic Circulars (which is a publication the Station Supervisor is required to read and 'sign for' to confirm he had read its contents), photography on stations is permitted so long as flash or tripods are not used. I would suggest a complaint to the Customer Service Centre and request the matter is investigated by the local management so that the member of staff can be suitably advised for the future. |
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Post by John Tuthill on Oct 2, 2013 17:32:47 GMT
It used to be, someone correct me if I'm wrong, but the stations south of Putney bridge were under the control of Network Rail. are they still under the control of the National Railway/Southwest Trains, or are they all TFL? I've taken pictures from the 'Southwest trains' platforms at Wimbledon, whilst sitting down. No one challenged me Since 1994 East Putney, Southfields and Wimbledon Park have been LU stations and LU own the track and infrastructure (stations/signals/bridges/embankments) from Putney Bridge to just outside Wimbledon. Network Rail provide the traction power supply and control the signalling. LU contract NR to maintain the signals. Thank you for the update |
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Post by Deleted on Oct 2, 2013 17:43:23 GMT
In reality there is very ittle legally they can do to enforce this however if you take flash photos that is a different matter. Challange them to make a citizens arrest after getting their details then you can pin a wrongful arrest claim on them then
XF
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Post by snoggle on Oct 2, 2013 18:20:23 GMT
I have not seen a Traffic Circular for a long while so I don't know what the current wording says. When I did work for LU I made an internal enquiry with the LU Film Unit about how a "normal" photographer should deal with the system of permits etc. I stressed the point it was about personal photography and NOT for commercial exploitation / course work. The response that came back was uncompromising - permits required by everyone and LU approval required for publication on Flickr or any social media. At that point I felt like making an issue of it as I considered this was both unfair and in contradiction with the "snapping while passing through" rule that was also in circulation. After some careful consideration I opted not to prolong the debate as I was fearful it would result in an absolute rule with zero discretion being permitted with a loss of enjoyment for many enthusiasts. I have remained quite careful when taking photos on the LU network since then so as not to unduly provoke anyone.
The situation obviously remains somewhat unclear but I would perhaps caution about making a great big song and dance with LU HQ as you might end up a clarification of the rules that you would not want. Clarity would be lovely but not if it is the wrong sort of clarity!
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Post by crusty54 on Oct 2, 2013 18:22:22 GMT
Any photos taken must not be for commercial gain.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 2, 2013 20:38:58 GMT
Should have just ignored the PA to be honest, similar thing happened to me and a mate at Brixton whilst waiting around for 67ts in their final months.
PA came over 'Can the customers on the end of the platform stop taking flash photographs' we didn't even have our cameras out let alone taking flash photos! We ignored it and stayed put, a few minutes later the Station Supervisor and one of his SA's came walking down the platform. The Station Supervisor gave us aload of rubbish about tresspass and fare evasion, we stood our ground throughout and then he got his SA to contact the control room to phone the BTP. They walked off without saying anything and we didn't see any BTP at all! Ah well, turned out there were no 67ts out that day anyway!
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Ben
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Post by Ben on Oct 2, 2013 23:37:41 GMT
My opinion is that instead of those stupid 'maze' installations at every station there should have been a board with a history of the station, some historical pictures of it, and a direct quote wrt allowing people to take pictures of the railway sans tripod and flash for personal use.
Otherwise, start a database with stations and staff members where photographers have met hostility or lies. That way people know where to expect poor treatment, thus where to avoid, and hard evidence is collated indicating some staffs continual ignorance of reality of the rules. Draconian, perhaps. But as this is a topic which has come up uncountable times before, we can safely assume that a small note in a traffic circular is not working well.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 3, 2013 9:05:12 GMT
Some NR stations have started displaying posters titled 'Rail Enthusiasts' and explain the rules below, LU could do this?
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Post by snoggle on Oct 3, 2013 9:27:21 GMT
My opinion is that instead of those stupid 'maze' installations at every station there should have been a board with a history of the station, some historical pictures of it, and a direct quote wrt allowing people to take pictures of the railway sans tripod and flash for personal use. Otherwise, start a database with stations and staff members where photographers have met hostility or lies. That way people know where to expect poor treatment, thus where to avoid, and hard evidence is collated indicating some staffs continual ignorance of reality of the rules. Draconian, perhaps. But as this is a topic which has come up uncountable times before, we can safely assume that a small note in a traffic circular is not working well. I like the history board idea. However I don't agree with your database concept. How on earth that could work in a fair way I don't know. Once staff knew of its existence they'd want to look at it and there would be undoubted challenges as to why any names had been entered. If there was ever a way to antagonise people you'd prefer to have on your side then this is it. I dread to think what the Data Protection issues would be like. |
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Post by southfieldschris on Oct 3, 2013 11:26:24 GMT
I can't find the exemption for photography by those "passing through" on the TfL website - perhaps it has been removed.
Common sense obviously needs to apply - I didn't see anyone enforcing a "no photos without permits" rule during Steam on the Underground.
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Post by uzairjubilee on Oct 3, 2013 12:00:13 GMT
I can't find the exemption for photography by those "passing through" on the TfL website - perhaps it has been removed. Common sense obviously needs to apply - I didn't see anyone enforcing a "no photos without permits" rule during Steam on the Underground. I can't find this either. Luckily I did print it out ages ago. |
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North End
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Post by North End on Oct 3, 2013 13:27:29 GMT
I have not seen a Traffic Circular for a long while so I don't know what the current wording says. When I did work for LU I made an internal enquiry with the LU Film Unit about how a "normal" photographer should deal with the system of permits etc. I stressed the point it was about personal photography and NOT for commercial exploitation / course work. The response that came back was uncompromising - permits required by everyone and LU approval required for publication on Flickr or any social media. At that point I felt like making an issue of it as I considered this was both unfair and in contradiction with the "snapping while passing through" rule that was also in circulation. After some careful consideration I opted not to prolong the debate as I was fearful it would result in an absolute rule with zero discretion being permitted with a loss of enjoyment for many enthusiasts. I have remained quite careful when taking photos on the LU network since then so as not to unduly provoke anyone. The situation obviously remains somewhat unclear but I would perhaps caution about making a great big song and dance with LU HQ as you might end up a clarification of the rules that you would not want. Clarity would be lovely but not if it is the wrong sort of clarity! It is in Traffic Circuiar 26/27 which is dated 24th June to 7th July 2013. Without searching, I'm sure I have seen it in more recent issues as well. There has definitely not been anything come out to the contrary. To repeat, there is no rule which says photography is not allowed on stations. It is not in the Rule Book or any other documentation which is readily available to staff. It is not unreasonable if people are hanging around in one place for staff to enquire as to their reasons for being there, however once a polite conversation has ensued then there should be no problem. At the end of the day enthusiasts are paying customers and LUL is a company which values customer service, therefore so long as individuals are not interfering with the running of the system such activities are not a problem. For the 38 stock on the Northern Line a circular was issued beforehand reminding staff that individuals wishing to photograph the train should be allowed to do so. Many of the people photographing the train were staff in any case! To remind everyone, flash or tripods should not be used at any time, and it goes without saying that individuals should not stray into areas not accessible to the public nor interfere with the operation of the system. |
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Post by snoggle on Oct 3, 2013 17:14:49 GMT
I have not seen a Traffic Circular for a long while so I don't know what the current wording says. When I did work for LU I made an internal enquiry with the LU Film Unit about how a "normal" photographer should deal with the system of permits etc. I stressed the point it was about personal photography and NOT for commercial exploitation / course work. The response that came back was uncompromising - permits required by everyone and LU approval required for publication on Flickr or any social media. At that point I felt like making an issue of it as I considered this was both unfair and in contradiction with the "snapping while passing through" rule that was also in circulation. After some careful consideration I opted not to prolong the debate as I was fearful it would result in an absolute rule with zero discretion being permitted with a loss of enjoyment for many enthusiasts. I have remained quite careful when taking photos on the LU network since then so as not to unduly provoke anyone. The situation obviously remains somewhat unclear but I would perhaps caution about making a great big song and dance with LU HQ as you might end up a clarification of the rules that you would not want. Clarity would be lovely but not if it is the wrong sort of clarity! It is in Traffic Circuiar 26/27 which is dated 24th June to 7th July 2013. Without searching, I'm sure I have seen it in more recent issues as well. There has definitely not been anything come out to the contrary. To repeat, there is no rule which says photography is not allowed on stations. It is not in the Rule Book or any other documentation which is readily available to staff. It is not unreasonable if people are hanging around in one place for staff to enquire as to their reasons for being there, however once a polite conversation has ensued then there should be no problem. At the end of the day enthusiasts are paying customers and LUL is a company which values customer service, therefore so long as individuals are not interfering with the running of the system such activities are not a problem. For the 38 stock on the Northern Line a circular was issued beforehand reminding staff that individuals wishing to photograph the train should be allowed to do so. Many of the people photographing the train were staff in any case! To remind everyone, flash or tripods should not be used at any time, and it goes without saying that individuals should not stray into areas not accessible to the public nor interfere with the operation of the system. Thank you for checking and reporting back. It is helpful to have an update. Please do not think I am being argumentative for the sake of it but the contrary argument is that the entire LU system is part of the LU brand and its intellectual property rights. The permits process is there to exert control over exploitation of those rights and how LU is presented to the public. Charging also covers additional costs where these are incurred - obviously not for hobby photography but definitely for mainstream TV and film recording. I appreciate contrary arguments can be constructed - e.g. LU is a publicly owned body - but other Metro companies completely ban photography on their networks without permission - Brussels Metro, Tyne and Wear Metro and Singapore MRT are three I am aware of. Singapore ban photography on security grounds and there are no exceptions from what I was told when I was told to stop taking photographs during my last visit. You'd never know there was a ban though - nothing on the relevant website. |
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Post by Chris W on Oct 3, 2013 19:02:46 GMT
My take is that a responsible railway enthusiast, far from being a liability, is an asset that should be welcomed. They both care and love the Underground acting as an additional pair of eyes and ears.
For any member of LU/TfL staff to unilaterally make up the rules on the spot (I've been told that photography is a criminal offence... funnily enough no Police were called) makes LU look ridiculous and, it goes without saying, makes themselves look silly too.
As astutely already mentioned above, common sense is key. That applies to all, including enthusiasts as I have witnessed some utter prats with tripod... using flash... and trespassing. There are wallies in all walks of life... and fortunately the vast vast majority of LU staff are decent... many enjoy photographing the Underground themselves too... it's up to us (enthusiasts) to ensure we're both reasonable and not act like wallies ourselves, giving the jobsworth the opportunity to act like a little person and throw their weight around.
As District Dave once said... if told to move on, just do so... you can always return another day.
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Ben
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Post by Ben on Oct 3, 2013 23:25:51 GMT
Youre absolutely right snoggle, that was a hot-headed idea on my part and I clearly see why it would be untennable. Forget the staff part then, but a list of stations where people have encountered difficulty might be useful?
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class411
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Post by class411 on Oct 4, 2013 6:18:36 GMT
I appreciate contrary arguments can be constructed - e.g. LU is a publicly owned body - but other Metro companies completely ban photography on their networks without permission - Brussels Metro, Tyne and Wear Metro and Singapore MRT are three I am aware of. Singapore ban photography on security grounds and there are no exceptions from what I was told when I was told to stop taking photographs during my last visit. You'd never know there was a ban though - nothing on the relevant website. I can't even begin to imagine the number of photographs being taken in contravention of these rules on phones and tablets. |
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l1group
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Post by l1group on Oct 4, 2013 18:31:25 GMT
I can't find the exemption for photography by those "passing through" on the TfL website - perhaps it has been removed. Common sense obviously needs to apply - I didn't see anyone enforcing a "no photos without permits" rule during Steam on the Underground. Me neither on the A Stock Railtour, 1938 stock on Piccadilly line (the station staff at Heathrow Central were actually quite helpful to me and my friends, even though one of my friends was a bit hyper!) just a few days ago. Nor at Acton Town for that! |
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Post by uzairjubilee on Oct 4, 2013 18:36:16 GMT
Reply from TfL:
Dear Mr Siddiqi,
Thank you for your email regarding an incident at Parsons Green as you were trying to take a photograph.
You are correct that London Underground (LU) is part of TfL but staff at the station are governed by LU regulations which states clearly that you do need a permit for flash photography. I understand that you did not use a flash and that you was only there for 2 minutes but the Station Supervisor (SS) will act according to what he sees.
I apologise if you felt embarrassed on this occasion but having a word with the SS prior to any pictures been taken will help prevent any embarrassment in future.
Thank you for taking the time to contact us. Please contact me again if you need any further assistance, or if you would prefer to talk to us about this matter, please call us on 0343 222 1234.
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Post by 100andthirty on Oct 4, 2013 19:04:58 GMT
The stance of the SS and that of customer services is utter nonsense. I would expect the SS to be concerned if someone is just loitering around or leaning over the platform edge, but simply taking photos on an ordinary camera, should not be remarkable these days. Think back to Steam on the Met, or the 150th anniversary runs; you stood out as unusual if you weren't taking photos!!!!! not only did no-one complain, they were overjoyed at the enthusiasm.
As for security, if anyone seriously wanted to photograph covertly, it is a doddle to do so without drawing attention to oneself or seem to possess anything that looks like a camera. Your SS at Parson's Green was a jobsworth!
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Post by domh245 on Oct 4, 2013 19:09:54 GMT
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Post by grahamhewett on Oct 4, 2013 20:13:39 GMT
@uzairsiddiqui - "you was"? - the TfL response would carry more weight if they could get their grammar correct...
Graham H
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Post by Deleted on Oct 5, 2013 10:19:23 GMT
This just rumbles on and on. I'm quite sure that the two biggest factors at play here are, a) the 'jobsworth factor' of some station staff, who do not understand our hobby and want to throw their weight around, and, b) the LU film office are desperate to protect themselves.
I've said it before, LU should offer an 'enthusuiast photographer' permit, for a price of £20 or so a year. You supply a photo of yourself to the film office, and agree to the rules on photography (ie. no flash/ tripods etc). They then have your details on file in the event of any contravention of the rules, and can withdraw the permit.
The camera + person = terrorist argument is nonsense. A smartphone, or even concealed camera would give the pictures needed for any terror plotting. ChrisW, Tomcakes and I had this argument with the SS at Clapham Common in 2008, when we were prevented by him taking photos of the 1938ts passing through. I've had hassle a few times, the worst being at Roding Valley, where I argued with the staff member there. I told him to go away [politely] and contact his controller for the rules.
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Post by railtechnician on Oct 5, 2013 14:36:51 GMT
This just rumbles on and on. I'm quite sure that the two biggest factors at play here are, a) the 'jobsworth factor' of some station staff, who do not understand our hobby and want to throw their weight around, and, b) the LU film office are desperate to protect themselves. I've said it before, LU should offer an 'enthusuiast photographer' permit, for a price of £20 or so a year. You supply a photo of yourself to the film office, and agree to the rules on photography (ie. no flash/ tripods etc). They then have your details on file in the event of any contravention of the rules, and can withdraw the permit. The camera + person = terrorist argument is nonsense. A smartphone, or even concealed camera would give the pictures needed for any terror plotting. ChrisW, Tomcakes and I had this argument with the SS at Clapham Common in 2008, when we were prevented by him taking photos of the 1938ts passing through. I've had hassle a few times, the worst being at Roding Valley, where I argued with the staff member there. I told him to go away [politely] and contact his controller for the rules. The idea of having to buy a permit at any price is outrageous. Anyone who gets a permit just to take a photo or two when passing through is creating a precedent that will affect everyone with a camera. So what's £20? Nothing to the average traveller or enthusiast perhaps but think where it could lead. How about a mandatory permit for carrying a mobile phone because it may be capable of taking pictures. The rules should be clear and unambiguous even if that does lead to a total ban on photography by those on the premises in possession of a valid authority to be there whether they are waiting for the next train or not, I have no idea if platform tickets still exist. By being in possession of a valid authority to travel one has already agreed to the rules and most travellers will already be carrying a photo ID as Oyster users so why should they have to fork out any additional monies for absolutely nothing that they are not already entitled to. Ben had the right idea when he suggested recording the details of stations where photography had been forbidden by a station supervisor. The data protection act is irrelevant where no personal data is held, all that would be required is location, date and time and circumstance. That information should be passed to a relevant authority which of course is not the Film Office as it has never had anything to do with the 'passing through' rule. My suggestion would be to send such data to the highest authority and perhaps the best way to discover who is the relevant authority would be to petition a member of parliament to look into it. First of all it would be a good idea to discover who actually authorised the 'passing through' rule, so perhaps an FOI request to the Rules & Regulations Team to get the ball rolling in a sensible manner. I doubt an answer would be forthcoming for 'operational' reasons and that's why an MP intervention would seem appropriate. Never forget that LU is a public service, without public patronage it would not exist and it supposedly exists within a democracy still funded to a large extent by the taxpayer. Testing democracy and the operation of public services through one or more MPs is a perfectly legitimate action and a far better way to proceed than having endless rows with station staff and wasted communications with the wrong 'authorities'. |
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Post by Deleted on Oct 5, 2013 15:31:10 GMT
I agree with you entirely, Brian, I was just trying to come up with a way round this nonsense. A while ago, some of us tried to get a final answer from the top brass at LU; it never got anywhere, other than the clarification posted in the TC.
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Post by Chris W on Oct 5, 2013 19:46:55 GMT
The truth is many Supervisors view enthusaists with fairness using common sense... others object, refusing access - although this might be due to congestion or other problems that the enthusiast might not be aware of. IMO regularly stated reasons of security and/or safety are, for the most part, meaningless bland excuses used to get rid of the enthusiast at all costs. Creating a map of stations where enthusiasts have problems capturing images, will in time become less and less useful as I bet every station will have a Supervisor who will give permission and another who will refuse. Stepping back for a moment, the impression I get is that LU/TfL are concerned with their image and don't want others to establish an income selling on photos taken on its land. Realistically is TfL prepared to tangle itself in knots trying to identify all the images captured of trains/platforms/people taken on its stations that have been uploaded to te internet and take legal action against every single photographer... IMO probbaly not, however if it did so I suspect there would be an outcry, similar to that that occurred a couple of years ago when a total ban was proposed by the Glasgow Metro - including a £1000 fine - of photography. This only resulted in a climb down by SPT. IMO TfL would have been apallingly advised if it decided to go in the samne direction. As enthusaists we could choose the rock the boat and force TfLs hand... or just go with the flow... using common sense and approaching Supervisors first for permission. In my experience they're not all dragons and quite a few are very friendly and are accepting towards enthusiasts. |
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