Photography prohibited?

Unless you give people all the information then they are unable to come to a reliable conclusion. There was nothing in your post to indicate anything that was suspicious - the number of people who film any given thing is irrelevant. One of the dozens of people filming trains entering a station may be doing so for nefarious purposes, yet I take some decidedly unusual photographs for the quiz - for example and
(click either for a larger version)

"I run a quiz on the internet for people to identify London Underground, Overground and DLR stations based on unusual photographs of them." is my normal response to being asked why I am taking the photos I am!

I've taken loads of photos of ticket gatelines and ticket halls - usually in places where works are underway or have been completed. People are always interested to see that sort of stuff. I even took photos of the old connecting subway between LU and National Rail at Kings Cross before it was closed off and sealed up as part of the redevelopment. Therefore there is a photographic record of it even though people probably thought I was nuts taking photos of it. On a personal basis it was also one of the very first bits of LU I ever saw when I first arrived in the city so despite its dinginess I had a certain fondness for it. No accounting for taste is there?

If you are spending a lot of time on a station, staff encourage you to sign in so that you can be accounted for in the event of an emergency. Indeed when I did this at Bristol Temple Meads once I was given a quick run down of what the fire alarm sounds like, what to do/where to go if I heard it, and asked to report anything out of the ordinary I saw (and told who to report it to). Signing in also gives staff the piece of mind to know that you aren't contemplating ending it all and they don't need to be concerned in that regard.

I don't recall any significant interaction with staff at any of those locations*, the only place I've had negative experiences after signing in was at Moorgate when the then-WAGN platform staff did not accept my having signed in with the LU station manager as permission to photograph on the station. Everywhere else has been fine.

*Staff at West Ham did report me to BTP for acting suspiciously when I was photographing the built-but-not-yet-open DLR extension north of the station (I walked from Stratford to Canning Town that day), but to be fair to them I can see that standing on the armco adjacent to the road, and taking a photo with my arm over the top of the railway fence would look suspicious!

Information about the D78 Stock project itself shall be forked to Antje's D78 Stock Photo Project.

West Ham: with the absence of the previously mentioned three private security guards by the stairs to the platform (was there an event?), the staff member I "signed in" (as Chris M suggested) with was completely fine with me when at the c2c platforms today.

Recently posts have been made on the forum, both in this thread and elsewhere, with regards to negativity from LU staff about photography and a concern that photography has, or may be banned on LU in the future.

I’ve been capturing images of Tottenham Court Road station this afternoon and I spoke to a senior member of LU station staff about photography. As an aside my images aren’t that much different to those that have been posted on Flickr (linked to here) already, however I’ll upload them in the coming day or so.

Anyway, back to the topic in hand.

I was told that as far as the senior member of Station Staff was concerned all passenger accessible areas street side of the barrier are a public area with photography being permitted. The Underground side the barrier continues to be a public area as long as the person has a valid ticket. However station staff appreciate being asked first.

As a travelling member of the public you may not be party to what is happening behind the scenes. For example, “Inspector Sands” alarms may be activating which may be legitimate or spurious warnings. The station may becoming overcrowded (quite common in the West End during December or in the rush hour) or there may be a spillage in a stairwell that needs dealing with. Someone turning up and taking photos unannounced, who for all staff know, might activate a camera flash or have a small hidden tripod, is one more headache that they just don’t need. Given the appalling events of Paris this month, security is also a factor that should be considered.

Station staff may understandably become inquisitive and start to ask questions about who you are or your intentions. They may have had past experiences of the wally-brain fraternity and sadly take the approach that it easier to treat every photographer as a trainspotter to be dismissed using any reason or made up excuse. Alternatively they may simply be having a bad day. Misunderstandings can then occur with photographers perceiving any challenge as being a form of aggression or hostility.

If you are approached, my personal advice would be to never respond with negativity or hostility; that will only work against you. Listen carefully to what you are being told. The benefit of having already asked and signed in, is that you can offer to accompany station staff to see the supervisor, particularly if they seem to be making up the rules.

Ultimately by asking first you are reassuring staff that you are a legitimate enthusiast and not some wally-brain who may put yours, or a.n.other person’s safety in jeopardy. You will normally be asked to sign in and may be given a badge or sticker to wear on your clothing. This reassures other station staff that you have permission to be there and enjoy your hobby. Indeed the staff I met today were very friendly and accommodating, even posing for pictures.

I have said this on the District Dave main site... respect and common sense needs to be applied by all.

felixj20000 - thanks for posting

I hope you don't mind me saying that IMO this is a perfect example of why it best that everyone (myself inclusive as an enthusiast) asks permission first. It is polite after all.

It reduces the chances of such challenges occurring in the first place, any perceived intimidation, the bad feelings that follow and the time and energy spent/invested in complaining to TfL.

What would really help is if we could have the circumstances of the challenge from the other side (LU staff POV) to show that there are two sides of a coin. However that, I acknowledge, is unlikely...

If any LU staff would like to contribute at this juncture, that would be enlightening.

I've never had any confrontations and I hope to keep it that way, but then again I've only filmed on two occasions, one of the H&C 150th specials and the C Stock Farewell tour. What with such events being well known about, with photographers and videographers going across multiple stations, would it be fair to say that stations expect an increase in photties at these times?
Generally I'd probably not go through the hassle of registering unless I'm going to be spending a significant (1h+) amount of time at any one station.

A basic legal maxim is that what isn't forbidden is permitted. Therefore you don't need a rule to give you permission (Which makes it hard to show it to someone). It is up to the person forbidding something to cite his authority for doing so.
The driving licence analogy is different - the law says that you do need permission to drive a car. A driving licence is proof that you have that permission.

Different national characteristics
England: Everything which is not expressly forbidden is allowed
Germany: Everything which is not expressly allowed is forbidden
France: everything is allowed, even if it is expressly forbidden
Russia: everything is forbidden, even that which is expressly allowed
North Korea: everything that is not forbidden is compulsory (also relevant to quantum mechanics!)
Azerbaijan: everything is allowed if you know or bribe the right people

Go up to any member of staff not engaged in a duty (eg someone on the gateline or platform) and tell them your intention to sign in. They should either then direct you to where you need to go, or say "don't worry about it" - at least in theory

Then chances are you would have been approached and asked to stop if you hadn't signed in. If they say no, I'd personally accept it, stay calm, walk away and try again at the next station down the line. There's no point arguing against their decision or trying to point out that the rules allow it, because they are the ones with authority. You could mention it to the next member of staff at the next station, who might be in the same station group and raise it with the relevant person, but that is all down to you. It is also worth remembering that they might say no for a legitimate reason, such as an ongoing incident or an expected event, but if it were one of these, the staff member would probably explain to you why they are saying no.

Sounds like it was the event of the month for the Rayners Lane supervisor? Not exactly the busiest of stations.

I agree with Tubeboy that it's not unreasonable to speak to station staff first if you plan to be in a particular location for a long period of time, but as has been posted here numerous times before *it's not necessary*.

Station staff do not have the right to make up their own rules, and someone going round hassling photographers (assuming no safety rules are being broken) is by definition making themselves unavailable to delivering customer service to other passengers.

I so wish that information about this "please encourage" had been available to the likes of me who do not work on the system but are camera-wielding trainspotters.

I say this because I thought it would be great to film (video) the 1938 Tube Stock train passing through the same station twice - but travelling on the tracks of two different Underground lines. However, my plans were scuppered when a few minutes before it was due to arrive at Leicester Square a member of staff encountered me, at the far end of the northbound Northern line platform, with my cameras visible. He said that it was not allowed / filming on the Underground was illegal* and that I should go with him to the station master's office to discuss. Of course I could not do this as I would have missed the train, so I jumped on the next service train and ended up filming it at Goodge Street. Along with several other people.

For the one and only Piccadilly Line journey I went to Kings Cross.

(*he really did use the 'illegal' word - I've just rewatched the video footage from that day)

Although not the only time I've been stopped from filming this is the worst instance I've ever encountered. Some stations even have reputations for this, one in particular being Mansion House. When I was there last Wednesday to see the D stock trains using the bay platform (because the signal woes at Tower Hill messed up the service) I was careful to ensure that I was not seen as previous experience has shown that the staff always say no. I'm not just talking about a year or so ago when the S Stock was introduced on the Circle Line but also many decades ago when I was a teenager and wanted to film CO / CP stock at a station which in those days was partly open air / daylight. In an attempt to avoid detection I would often hide at the top of the footbridge over the tracks, alas this did not always work as it was sometimes possible for the station staff to hear my 35mm camera's shutter even when they could not see me.

On the day of the A stock tour I wanted to film passing C and S stock trains at Farringdon and the CSA I asked said 'no' - the special train had passed and it was only allowed to film that train. However someone of a higher grade heard this and told me that it was OK. Then the two of them had an argument over this with the supervisor having to remind the other member of staff that they are in charge and if they say that its OK then it is OK. Of course I thanked the supervisor afterwards. As an aside, the same also happened at Blackpool North.

The issue extends beyond whether filming is or is not allowed. I never had any problems at Kew Gardens when it was managed by BR, but when the 378's were introduced (by which time the station had started being managed by LU) I had a member of staff come from the control room to tell me that the supervisor only allows still image cameras - not camcorders. I was using a camcorder. This station is almost unique - because of the ability to see District Line and North London Line trains side-by-side (Gunnersbury is not so good because it has an island platform, Richmond depends on which platforms the trains are using).

As per this link:
citytransport.info/Digi/P1160592a.jpg

btw, I've stopped asking in advance. I often did this in the 1990's but its now reached the point where if you do not ask you cannot be told no and then incur their wrath for ignoring the negative response.

Simon

Might this be it...??

Its a bulletin board site, with a photography section:

URBAN 75 - Railways
URBAN 75 - Street Photography

This FLICKR page refers to the Working Reference Manual as being out of date/obsolete, instead stating that the current text/rule (back in 2009) was/is:
"Tourists or train enthusiasts 'passing through' stations are permitted to take ad-hoc photographs or film at the Station Supervisor's discretion. However, tripods are not permitted and flash must not be used on platforms."

That quote/rule/guideline can no longer be found on the TfL website (used to be when you searched for 'photography')...