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Post by abe on Sept 28, 2011 14:11:01 GMT
The consultation report has been published by TfL. The weekday services will be withdrawn from December 2011.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Sept 28, 2011 15:08:05 GMT
Now that's a great surprise ;D ;D
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Post by Dstock7080 on Sept 28, 2011 15:14:51 GMT
Indeed! I'm sure that 79.2% of Wimbledon users voted for this, as there are very few Olympia passengers to ask, now they are travelling on a 20min service!
I also like how TfL offer Green Line 702 as an alternative, at best running a 30min frequency and no TfL passes or Oyster being accepted !
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Sept 28, 2011 19:07:10 GMT
Wimbledon line trains have been crush loaded since time immemorial - there has to be a balance between resource use and genuine passenger need.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Sept 28, 2011 19:15:52 GMT
PS - Croxley Green - Watford was the deadest of dead ducks - the experimental 30 min service either ran empty or carried wrongly destined passengers who assumed it was going to Euston from Watford High St.
I have it on good authority that the train crew complained to management about the futility of running completely empty trains.
Train services need a purpose.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 28, 2011 19:31:55 GMT
PS - Croxley Green - Watford was the deadest of dead ducks - the experimental 30 min service either ran empty or carried wrongly destined passengers who assumed it was going to Euston from Watford High St. I have it on good authority that the train crew complained to management about the futility of running completely empty trains. Train services need a purpose. Croxley Green -Watford did have a purpose! - It was run in the hope some dodgy person might make a model railway layout based on the line ;D
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Sept 28, 2011 20:27:37 GMT
Ahh, removal of the Olympia service. The report constantly mentions the fact that there was severe overcrowding (with trains) at Earl's Court. I really don't think this is the case. How often do you arrive at Earl's Court with all 4 platforms empty and the next Eastbound train not for 3-4 mins? The answer is often.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Sept 28, 2011 20:31:45 GMT
Good to see that Olympia's best customers - booze and porn - will still have a rail service. And LUL's still got it in for Ms Greening (MP for Putney) - despite the outcome of the consultation, apparently all the additional trains are going to go to/from Wimbledon, so the Putneyites will still be squashed
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Sept 28, 2011 21:51:07 GMT
Croxley Green -Watford did have a purpose! - It was run in the hope some dodgy person might make a model railway layout based on the line ;D And one day the same dodgy person will extend the sheds and put in a 7 car 38. Much more stately don't you think? In the meantime start building Olympia xercesfobe.......you know it costs a fortune makes sense!
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Ben
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Post by Ben on Sept 29, 2011 19:18:25 GMT
One wonders if it wasnt merely a shuttle how much better used it would be? For example if the outer circle service had persisted, the Mets shuttle from the H&C line had been rebuilt.
As it is, its potential is somewhat limited. A pity its going, but as long as it doesnt result in any opperational flexibility.
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slugabed
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Post by slugabed on Sept 29, 2011 19:31:31 GMT
Great minds think alike,Ben! I've just suggested on "another" site,re-instating a Willesden Jct HL to High Street Ken service....resumed as a result of the cessation of hostilities.....perhaps operated by London Overground....? Only a few issues to resolve before that would be possible...
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castlebar
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Post by castlebar on Sept 29, 2011 20:01:57 GMT
Great Idea, slugabed
Far better to extend it than cut it.
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Post by mrjrt on Sept 30, 2011 12:30:04 GMT
Apologies for the RIPAS, but one suggestion I've concocted that doesn't seem to have come up elsewhere is to build a curve from the WLL to the Central Line north of Shepard's Bush and have the District take over the Central line from there. Would make the journey from West Ruislip a tad more comfortable, and frees the Central to go somewhere else....say Richmond or Uxbridge via the Uxbridge Road.
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slugabed
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Post by slugabed on Sept 30, 2011 14:53:53 GMT
There used to be a link here....built,I believe as part of the GWR's E&SBR...behind the dairy. I don't know if any trace remains but it was only 100yds or so of track. I believe it closed as part of the Westway construction work,which obliterated the western junction....but I stand to be correctedd on this.
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mrfs42
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Post by mrfs42 on Sept 30, 2011 15:15:27 GMT
There used to be a link here....built,I believe as part of the GWR's E&SBR...behind the dairy. Yes. I have the connections noted on an E&SBR plan. <tinkers.....> CLicky - Wood Lane GW signalbox and the connection to untited dairies are noted in pencil.
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castlebar
Planners use hindsight, not foresight
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Post by castlebar on Sept 30, 2011 15:18:29 GMT
@ slugabed
You are entirely correct. As per two other contemporaneous threads, they would have been happiest if every surface railway had been concreted over and turned into a road. "Dedicated busways" are the vestigal desperate attempt to revive such concrete thinking, (pun intended). "Bustitution" came, and the buses soon went the way of the trains. Won't be so easy with dedicated expensive guided roadways though.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 30, 2011 16:17:33 GMT
There used to be a link here....built,I believe as part of the GWR's E&SBR...behind the dairy. I don't know if any trace remains but it was only 100yds or so of track. I believe it closed as part of the Westway construction work,which obliterated the western junction....but I stand to be correctedd on this. Not just 100 yards of track! In 1937 the GWR put in an extra pair of tracks alongside the tracks used by the Central Line all the way to North Acton, to separate its own freight operations from the Underground services (I can't immediately lay my hands on a closure date). The extra width formation is obvious at, for example, Du Cane Road bridge.
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castlebar
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Post by castlebar on Sept 30, 2011 16:48:21 GMT
stonesfan is of course correct.
But with the closure of Banbury - Woodford Halse and the G.C., through freights were effectively finished on that route so the spare tracks along the Central Line were there, rusting and unloved through the 60's, but the bit by the dairy to build the Westway was the "priority lift". After that, the rest didn't matter so it was left for a few years to rust as it was "job done" on cutting another rail link. The Met certainly would not have survived beyond Rickmansworth, possibly not even TO Rickmansworth. The Bakerloo would have been expected to take all coach passengers arriving at Marylebone. See the other threads, THAT is how bad it was when one Government had been in power so long it felt it had a divine right to do what it liked.
Unfortunately, as has also been mentioned on the ChiltenMet thread, the incoming Labour Gov'ts in '64/66 were just as bad at listening to the public. It was in fact just as corrupt (remember Lord Kagan, Mr Milhench and the slag heap scandal).
Some of the decision makers of those days are still alive. Two at least are in the House of Lords whereas they ought to be in Wormwood Scrubbs. Which of course can be seen from the piece of track and Central Line in question.
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castlebar
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Post by castlebar on Sept 30, 2011 17:40:03 GMT
Actually, thinking "out of the box", and with some foresight, The Olympia service could have been EXTENDED, Shepherds Bush, White City, then "the link" referred to, fast on the old GWR line to an interchange at Park Royal, interchange with the Central at Hanger Lane, ditto Greenford, fast to South Ruislip, THEN link to the Met > Hillingdon Uxbridge.
Too avant garde for the (so called) 'planners' of the time.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 30, 2011 21:16:33 GMT
Ah one of a long list of 'what could have been' Development has encroached on the alignment along Du Cane Rd east of East Acton station; I don't know if the alignment remains beneath the Westway bridges. It's a shame, as the West London Line is a strategically important route and a link to the GW-GC route would provide an alternative freight route to the West Midlands and beyond. And also to the East Midlands and beyond if they rebuilt the GC to Rugby. It wont be long til the 2-track WLL will be at capacity and maybe then they'll look again at District extensions from Olympia. I reckon they should tunnel north and take over the Central route from White City, and the Central can then head west under Goldhawk Rd or Uxbridge Rd. The advantage with this is that you could remove the Central flyover at Du Cane Rd that re-switches train direction, and that will release space to reestablish the link from the GW-GC route to the WLL. Another option is to continue to Old Oak Common, an interchange that could well progress whether or not HS2 gets the nod, and go on from there to North Acton, or Willesden Jn... Anyway I suppose someone somewhere is looking into all this...
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Post by andypurk on Sept 30, 2011 21:47:07 GMT
Ah one of a long list of 'what could have been' Development has encroached on the alignment along Du Cane Rd east of East Acton station; I don't know if the alignment remains beneath the Westway bridges. It's a shame, as the West London Line is a strategically important route and a link to the GW-GC route would provide an alternative freight route to the West Midlands and beyond. And also to the East Midlands and beyond if they rebuilt the GC to Rugby. It wont be long til the 2-track WLL will be at capacity and maybe then they'll look again at District extensions from Olympia. It will be a long time before the West London line is at capacity for passenger services. There is still room for loops in both directions at Kensington Olympia and all the stations are due for lengthening to 8 cars in the near future. The current service is 5 x 4 car trains per hour (4 LO and 1 Southern), off-peak, with an extra 2x4 car services in the peaks (the Southern services which only run Shepherd's Bush/Kensington Olympia - Clapham Junction). There are already plans for the LO trains to be lengthened to five cars (and maybe six) and for the Southern trains to be 2x8 cars per hour, off-peak running to/from the WCML, with the peak extras also being 8 cars. These plans together will give an increase from 20/28 coaches per hour (off-peak/peak) to 36/40+. Capacity for freight is more problematical, but there are plans for alterations further out from London to give extra capacity on lines such as Guildford - Redhill - Tonbridge, meaning that freight can use the quieter route via Acton Central and the Hounslow loop But extending the District line is no good, because there will still be no where for the trains to go at Earl's Court, without spending lots of money for grade separation of the junctions.
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Post by mrjrt on Sept 30, 2011 23:15:09 GMT
I've always envisaged the obvious solution being to adjust the layout west of Earls Court by extending the flyover so that the "mainline" serves the inner roads, and the Wimblewares serve the outer faces, with another bit of grade separation east of there taking the westbound line over/under the mainline to head north.
...though, thinking about it, you'd probably want another line up to Olympia (for a full dual track link) if you were to incorporate it into a longer service, and that would need a diveunder to bring it into the southernmost road.
Which means you either have all that for cross-platofrm interchange, or you give it up and have the northern island serving the Wimblewares and Olympia and the southern island serving the mainline, in which case all you'd need is to lengthen and widen the existing flyover.
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Phil
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Post by Phil on Oct 1, 2011 7:03:51 GMT
I've always envisaged the obvious solution being to adjust the layout west of Earls Court by extending the flyover so that the "mainline" serves the inner roads, and the Wimblewares serve the outer faces, with another bit of grade separation east of there taking the westbound line over/under the mainline to head north. Instead of which, a couple of decades ago, they actually REMOVED the switch which allowed Wimblewares to access pfm1. Controllers are still complaining (and there are continuous hints of it being reinstated but nothing definite) but it saved money on maintenance at the time...... . So anything else would have even less priority than this reinstatement and all the above are realistically drifting into RIPAS territory .
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Post by Deleted on Oct 1, 2011 10:35:49 GMT
Reading the press release as opposed to all the documents makes me wonder will signposting from West Kensington station be improved to allow people to access Olympia that way? Its not a long walk but not obvious to someone who doesn't know the local area well.
Im going to be rhetorical and think probably not.
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Tom
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Post by Tom on Oct 1, 2011 17:06:29 GMT
Instead of which, a couple of decades ago, they actually REMOVED the switch which allowed Wimblewares to access pfm1. Controllers are still complaining (and there are continuous hints of it being reinstated but nothing definite) but it saved money on maintenance at the time...... Only a couple of decades? It's closer to five decades ago now! I doubt that many of todays controllers were even alive at the time!
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metman
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Post by metman on Oct 1, 2011 18:23:41 GMT
I'm going to Earls Court tomorrow. I'm going to use the Olympia service, perhaps for the last time....
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Post by Deleted on Oct 2, 2011 18:25:26 GMT
I had a ride on the Olympia branch last Saturday and I was one of only two people in our carriage to Earl's Court (and the other person was my grandfather!), although we had walked down the train to one of the closest carriages to the front. I was pleased with the photo I got at Olympia too. Who knows, it may well be significant to say you've travelled on the branch one day. ;D
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Oct 2, 2011 19:12:38 GMT
Instead of which, a couple of decades ago, they actually REMOVED the switch which allowed Wimblewares to access pfm1. Controllers are still complaining (and there are continuous hints of it being reinstated but nothing definite) but it saved money on maintenance at the time...... Only a couple of decades? It's closer to five decades ago now! I doubt that many of todays controllers were even alive at the time! We are being told that points are going back in. Also being taken out at Tower Hill and Mansion House - bay roads, Embankment moving to west of the station, and I'm sure someone mentioned taking Gloucester Road WB points out (they were handy the other day - being used all day owing to some failure at S Ken!) Any light on these Tom?
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metman
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Post by metman on Oct 2, 2011 22:31:09 GMT
Tower Hill and Mansion House bays being removed?
If that is the case that is very foolish as was the crossover at Baker Street Plat3!
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Post by abe on Oct 3, 2011 10:31:56 GMT
A plan I've heard about is to make the bay road at Tower Hill double-ended, so that trains can enter from the east. No problem with that - a bit more operational flexibility - but I'm not convinced that the other change is good. The middle platform at Mansion House will become the WB line, and the current WB platform will be abandoned.
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