metman
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5056 05/12/1961-23/04/2012 RIP
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Post by metman on Sept 19, 2011 7:37:39 GMT
Maybe 5022?  |
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Post by graeme186 on Sept 19, 2011 12:51:16 GMT
T717 was today 19/09/11 formed of 5064/65 and 5216/17. 5064 was at the north end. Train ran approx 20 mins early on the down and 30 mins early on the up (very quick turnround at Watford)
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Post by Chris W on Sept 19, 2011 19:26:33 GMT
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Sept 19, 2011 21:36:05 GMT
metman, what made you say 5022?
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Post by Deleted on Sept 19, 2011 22:24:06 GMT
5216/17? Interesting; this would appear to be one of the youngest units yet one of the first batch to be scrapped.
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Post by astock5000 on Sept 20, 2011 0:21:05 GMT
5216/17? Interesting; this would appear to be one of the youngest units yet one of the first batch to be scrapped. I don't think age has much to do with which units are withdrawn first. The condition of the unit, the date of its last overhaul and whether it's double ended and/or de-icing are probably more important. In fact most units withdrawn so far have been A62 stock. |
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Post by Deleted on Sept 23, 2011 10:20:44 GMT
5064 had suffered a burnout, thats why it went early.
5145/5026 are having parts removed today, also one unit is down for a turning run.
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metman
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5056 05/12/1961-23/04/2012 RIP
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Post by metman on Sept 23, 2011 14:38:44 GMT
Thanks mate.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 26, 2011 17:39:39 GMT
no scrap run next week!
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Post by graeme186 on Sept 26, 2011 17:57:07 GMT
Thank you kindly undergrounddriver for that advice. Us photographers can have a week off! T717 today ran about 10 down and followed T447 down rather than T446. It was time on the up. 5145 was at the north end. When I passed Neasden Depot on the way home Friday, 5026 had its nose sticking out of the shed on 27 RD which of course would have meant it having to undergo a turning trip prior to today's scrap run. This may have been the turning trip you were referring to in your posting last week. I guess this will have had to have happended Fri evening given the engineering block over the weekend. |
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Post by 1018509 on Sept 26, 2011 20:43:06 GMT
At the risk of asking a stupid question I will ask it anyway.
Why does a unit have to be turned before it can be scrapped?
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metman
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Post by metman on Sept 26, 2011 21:27:36 GMT
It is likely that both units were facing north and were unable to couple up. This would have occured when the formation they were previously running in had reversed via the Watford triangle. Therefore unit 5026 was turned via the Watford triangle so it would be facing south and be able to couple to unit 5145.
Unit 5026 is an 'A' end unit, and unit 5145 is a 'D' end unit. Since one person operation conversion in 1986, A stock units can only couple A to D and not A to A nor D to D (except in emergency). The middle cabs of the two units 5027 and 5144 are 'D' and 'A' respectively.
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Post by abe on Sept 27, 2011 7:12:56 GMT
Since one person operation conversion in 1986, A stock units can only couple A to D and not A to A nor D to D (except in emergency). Given that the units are making only one final run (and not in passenger service), how much does this matter? Is there some safety-critical equipment that would not operate, or is the emergency coupling process particularly complex? Sorry if this a daft question; I'm interested to know why it is worth the time and cost of sending a unit to the Watford triangle rather than just couple them up whichever way around they are. |
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Post by Deleted on Sept 27, 2011 8:26:59 GMT
It is likely that both units were facing north and were unable to couple up. This would have occured when the formation they were previously running in had reversed via the Watford triangle. Therefore unit 5026 was turned via the Watford triangle so it would be facing south and be able to couple to unit 5145. Did wonder why I noted a 4 car at North Harrow other day, this explains it.. Happen to get a video of it leaving.... |
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Post by citysig on Sept 27, 2011 11:03:29 GMT
Given that the units are making only one final run (and not in passenger service), how much does this matter? Is there some safety-critical equipment that would not operate, or is the emergency coupling process particularly complex? Sorry if this a daft question; I'm interested to know why it is worth the time and cost of sending a unit to the Watford triangle rather than just couple them up whichever way around they are. The process should only be used in an emergency, and given the scrap run has to run alongside other service trains at normal speed, it is always best to have it as "fit for service" as possible. Don't forget that the run includes the train being driven from both ends, first northbound then southbound, so fully functioning cabs are required - in as much as the train can be driven at normal speed. Whilst the turning process takes a short time, that is as much as it costs. Provided there is a driver available, a turning run is fairly easy to arrange and carry out. |
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Post by 1018509 on Sept 27, 2011 18:40:17 GMT
I understand all that A and D business (I ought to after 41 years) but I don't understand why a unit has to be driven past the scrapping site twice before it can be coupled to another unit and driven to the scrapping site again.
If you can drive the train to turn it why not leave the 4 car unit at the scrapping site?
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Post by citysig on Sept 28, 2011 10:01:34 GMT
The arrangements for getting the trains into the (non electrified) siding at Northwood, dictate that it must be a full 8-car set. A 4-car may not have enough "welly" to successfully power itself from the platform and fully berth in the siding (it goes off current not long after the platform ramp, due to the pointwork etc.)
That aside, much as this particular unit needed turning, the booked scrap runs are on a Monday morning, with train crew and engineers booked up for the move to take place. There have been occasions where the booked train has been "leap-frogged" by other trains which are "more needy" of the scrap heap - and so waiting until Monday morning could, in theory, see the planned units getting a reprieve for a week.
Early on in the program, a unit which had suffered a major electrical failure became the following week's scrap train - leap-frogging the pre-booked unit.
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SE13
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Post by SE13 on Sept 28, 2011 10:24:47 GMT
Can they not be hooked up to battery locos? That way, any number of 4 car units can go, and others get more of a reprieve.
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a60
I will make the 8100 Class DART my new A Stock.
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Post by a60 on Sept 28, 2011 13:01:05 GMT
Just out of interest, which unit was booked before 5006/7 took it's place?
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Post by citysig on Sept 28, 2011 21:14:21 GMT
Can they not be hooked up to battery locos? That way, any number of 4 car units can go, and others get more of a reprieve. Far easier to simply run the train as 8-cars. They have a reprieve next week, and that's all they'll be getting for now ;D |
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metman
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Post by metman on Sept 28, 2011 23:13:30 GMT
I'm not sure a 4 car unit wouldn't get into the siding. Trains are very heavy and certainly would be able to coast into the siding at Northwood.
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Post by citysig on Sept 28, 2011 23:33:34 GMT
Well, maybe it "could" make it. But these moves are made during the daytime, whilst the service is running, and as such we have to be absolutely sure the train will make it. So it's belt and braces all the way.
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metman
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5056 05/12/1961-23/04/2012 RIP
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Post by metman on Sept 28, 2011 23:36:41 GMT
and also 8 cars are delivered so why would only 4 be withdrawn!
I'm sure however that 130tonnes would make it into the siding, unless the t/ops don't have the bottle... ;D
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Post by citysig on Sept 28, 2011 23:42:52 GMT
I know what you're trying to achieve here. And as you rightly point out, we get 8 new cars, and must sacrifice 8 old ones ;D I have heard tales of experienced long-serving A-stock drivers, who threatened to leave once the S-stock took over, now being wooed by the very comfortable cab seating  ;D ;D |
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cso
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Post by cso on Sept 29, 2011 8:12:21 GMT
Who drives the trains going for Scrap? Is it drivers or test train ops?
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Post by phillw48 on Sept 29, 2011 8:15:39 GMT
and also 8 cars are delivered so why would only 4 be withdrawn! Seeing as the stock is at the end of its life it might have been deemed prudent to keep a unit back as a spare in case of breakdown. |
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Post by citysig on Sept 29, 2011 9:37:22 GMT
Spare units will be retained right up until the end (and a couple for after the end). At this point in the scrappage program its more straightforward and safe (from a service point of view) to cart them off in 8-car batches.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 29, 2011 18:19:00 GMT
Who drives the trains going for Scrap? Is it drivers or test train ops? Normally one driver, two test team members, plus one depot staff member. further depot staff, and ERU fitters wait at Norhwood to uncouple the cars. |
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Post by Deleted on Oct 2, 2011 12:18:58 GMT
A question for Metcontrol maybe:
From earlier discussions the plan was to swap to removals by rail - is this still tha case or are we staying with road removals as that operation seems to have become quite slick?
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Post by citysig on Oct 2, 2011 21:24:20 GMT
It has become very slick, but you'll have to wait for someone more closely related to the project to answer your question. I haven't heard any update on moving them out by rail  |
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