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Post by Deleted on May 6, 2016 17:16:44 GMT
As soon as there are enough S stock to run the whole service, that'll be it for the D's. I wish that were so. There are two camps - one that would like to see the Ds gone and a 100% S stock fleet asap and one that would like to hang onto some as long as possible "just in case" there's a sudden dip in reliability or unexpected event. Worth remembering the D stock is almost free to use at the moment as there are only minimal maintenance tasks remaining and they can rack up quite a bit more mileage before any money needs to be spent on them. For S stock on the other hand every mile they cover brings them closer to the next exam that does cost money. Hence why one day recently had something like 25 out of 26 in service. |
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Post by chris11256 on May 7, 2016 16:01:23 GMT
As soon as there are enough S stock to run the whole service, that'll be it for the D's. I wish that were so. There are two camps - one that would like to see the Ds gone and a 100% S stock fleet asap and one that would like to hang onto some as long as possible "just in case" there's a sudden dip in reliability or unexpected event. Worth remembering the D stock is almost free to use at the moment as there are only minimal maintenance tasks remaining and they can rack up quite a bit more mileage before any money needs to be spent on them. For S stock on the other hand every mile they cover brings them closer to the next exam that does cost money. Hence why one day recently had something like 25 out of 26 in service. I thought I'd been seeing a lot of Ds recently. For my commute it's gone from S stock being common to them being like gold dust. |
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Post by superteacher on May 7, 2016 16:42:03 GMT
I'm all for keeping back some D's to cover for reliability issues with the S stock - it makes perfect sense.
What doesn't make sense is the list of D stock workings which in my experience ends up being very different in practice.
You can have the D's as backup, but to me it's a no brainer to put an S into service if one is available, rather than letting new trains sit around in a depot all day. I'm sure the passengers would rather travel in a train with air con too, especially as it's now very warm in London.
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Post by spsmiler on May 7, 2016 23:05:25 GMT
Although I think the last one will run in service late August / early September. As soon as there are enough S stock to run the whole service, that'll be it for the D's. There is quite a bit of work to be done which can't start while the D's are in service. What sort of work? Simon |
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Post by Deleted on May 7, 2016 23:11:23 GMT
Although I think the last one will run in service late August / early September. As soon as there are enough S stock to run the whole service, that'll be it for the D's. There is quite a bit of work to be done which can't start while the D's are in service. What sort of work? Simon Removal of platform monitors and mirrors is the very first thing that comes to mind. |
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Post by Deleted on May 8, 2016 0:28:35 GMT
Some of the co acting signals can be removed as can the legacy csde equipment
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Post by londonstuff on May 8, 2016 11:24:58 GMT
Is there any electrical work to be done with the regeneration system when the Ds go or is that already happening? Increase in voltage, etc.?
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Post by Dstock7080 on May 8, 2016 11:43:33 GMT
Is there any electrical work to be done with the regeneration system when the Ds go or is that already happening? Increase in voltage, etc.? Work is already being done on sections of the District and C&H to increase the regenerative braking voltages from 650vDC to 790vDC, some have already been completed. (don't ask me how this works!) |
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Post by rincew1nd on May 8, 2016 12:38:01 GMT
Is there any electrical work to be done with the regeneration system when the Ds go or is that already happening? Increase in voltage, etc.? Work is already being done on sections of the District and C&H to increase the regenerative braking voltages from 650vDC to 790vDC, some have already been completed. (don't ask me how this works!) It's electrickery, therefore it works along the "magic smoke" principle. Wires are actually small pipes carrying magic smoke, this can be proved by the common observation that when an electrical fault occurs smoke is often seen rising from the location of the fault. This applies at a wide variety of voltages, high voltage applications jut carry more smoke. As a demonstration, I couldn't figure out why my motorbike wouldn't turn over, then I noticed that there was magic smoke escaping from the alarm/immobiliser unit. Because there was now insufficient magic smoke in the system, it wouldn't work! You could prove this theory by opening your fusebox at home and loosening a few of the terminal screws, soon magic smoke will start to escape. However, I highly recommend against this as you then need to plug the holes where the smoke escaped; don't try this at home. |
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Post by class411 on May 8, 2016 15:24:46 GMT
It's electrickery, therefore it works along the "magic smoke" principle. Wires are actually small pipes carrying magic smoke, this can be proved by the common observation that when an electrical fault occurs smoke is often seen rising from the location of the fault. This applies at a wide variety of voltages, high voltage applications jut carry more smoke. As a demonstration, I couldn't figure out why my motorbike wouldn't turn over, then I noticed that there was magic smoke escaping from the alarm/immobiliser unit. Because there was now insufficient magic smoke in the system, it wouldn't work! You could prove this theory by opening your fusebox at home and loosening a few of the terminal screws, soon magic smoke will start to escape. However, I highly recommend against this as you then need to plug the holes where the smoke escaped; don't try this at home. An excellent non-technical summary with a refreshing lack of jargon. The ignorance of the general public (inc Catweasel) on the subject of electrickery is lamentable. At one establishment where I worked, one of the secretaries was quite concerned that electrickery (or 'juice' as she called it) would leak out into the environment when plugs where removed from sockets. Fortunately we were able to calm her fears by pointing out that when you remove a plug, three little shutters come down and keep the magic smoke safely confined. She was much relieve when we told her this, and showed her the shutters in place. |
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Post by rincew1nd on May 11, 2016 17:46:59 GMT
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Post by Deleted on May 11, 2016 18:06:12 GMT
Haven't they got to go back for upgrades and some minor modifications now? Especially the early S7's
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Post by DWS on May 11, 2016 18:14:14 GMT
Haven't they got to go back for upgrades and some minor modifications now? Especially the early S7's All trains have to go back to Derby to have the SelTrac signalling kit fitted. |
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Post by Chris M on May 11, 2016 20:18:26 GMT
"Last ever" seems a bit final. What happens if one gets written off? What happens if the District swaps the Ealing/Uxbridge branches with the Picc and needs a few more trains?
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Post by norbitonflyer on May 11, 2016 20:43:04 GMT
"Last ever" seems a bit final. What happens if one gets written off? What happens if the District swaps the Ealing/Uxbridge branches with the Picc and needs a few more trains? What if? Even if they keep the tooling, setting up a production line for a one-off (or even a batch of half a dozen) would be very expensive. Even the two "C08" cars used as much of the basic structure of the originals as possible. If a need for a small batch of units is identified at some stage during the service life of this fleet, it is more likely to be added as a supplementary order added to something else being built at the time - just as British Rail, as was, had its class 482s as a follow on to LU's order for the Central Line fleet. |
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Post by tel on May 18, 2016 19:27:37 GMT
21523/4 on T 171 at Farringdon e/bnd 0903 18/05/16
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Post by Deleted on May 20, 2016 22:12:38 GMT
21513/14 is now is passenger service ,no idea about its first day.
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Post by Deleted on May 31, 2016 9:45:04 GMT
Latest position as of last Friday.
110 S7s deployed on the network.
23 S Stock still to roll out on the District Main and one S7+1 for the Metropolitan line
22 D Stock to be removed from the District line
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Post by Deleted on May 31, 2016 10:41:46 GMT
That's what I make it too!
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Post by superteacher on May 31, 2016 20:58:39 GMT
Latest position as of last Friday. 110 S7s deployed on the network. 23 S Stock still to roll out on the District Main and one S7+1 for the Metropolitan line 22 D Stock to be removed from the District line There are 109 trains needed for peak service on the District, Circle and H&C. How far away are we from having enough S7's to run the whole service reliably? |
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Post by Deleted on Jun 1, 2016 18:05:44 GMT
Latest position as of last Friday. 110 S7s deployed on the network. 23 S Stock still to roll out on the District Main and one S7+1 for the Metropolitan line 22 D Stock to be removed from the District line There are 109 trains needed for peak service on the District, Circle and H&C. How far away are we from having enough S7's to run the whole service reliably? The answer depends on who you ask. I'd say it is a minimum of 121 because that's what the legacy fleet total was but that ignores two things (a) on the plus side that the s stock reliability is generally very good and (b) on the minus side that availability is a bit lower as some maintenance activities can only be done in certain locations partly due to that being the plan and partly due to some depot facilities not yet being delivered. So, in reality around 124-ish I'd say. Having said that the fleet size will start to reduce from September as trains go away for ATC fitment. So the S stock fleet will go from 110 last week to 133 then back down to 127 or 126 by Christmas. |
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Post by graeme186 on Jun 3, 2016 20:52:47 GMT
Before the service started to fall apart, 21533/34 formed T21 earlier this evening
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Post by class411 on Jun 7, 2016 12:02:25 GMT
Anecdotal:
Since last Thursday I have seen 37 District line trains (mostly en passant), 36 S-Stock and a single D-Stock.
Possibly a slightly anomalous result, but D-Stock are certainly operating in "Hen's Teeth" mode, now.
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Post by superteacher on Jun 7, 2016 17:43:47 GMT
On the other hand, I turned up on a District line platform randomly last week and the first three trains I saw were D stocks!
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Post by chris11256 on Jun 7, 2016 18:33:26 GMT
For my daily commute(Tower Hill to Westminster) it's still a rarity for an S stock to turn up for my train. 4/6 days a week I'll have a D stock both ways. It's reached the point where I'll sometimes wait for the next Circle line service. Especially this afternoon, was horribly humid.
I'm eagerly counting down for the end of the D stock!
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Post by superteacher on Jun 7, 2016 18:44:55 GMT
For my daily commute(Tower Hill to Westminster) it's still a rarity for an S stock to turn up for my train. 4/6 days a week I'll have a D stock both ways. It's reached the point where I'll sometimes wait for the next Circle line service. Especially this afternoon, was horribly humid. I'm eagerly counting down for the end of the D stock! Do you travel at the same time each day? |
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Post by chris11256 on Jun 7, 2016 19:06:11 GMT
For my daily commute(Tower Hill to Westminster) it's still a rarity for an S stock to turn up for my train. 4/6 days a week I'll have a D stock both ways. It's reached the point where I'll sometimes wait for the next Circle line service. Especially this afternoon, was horribly humid. I'm eagerly counting down for the end of the D stock! Do you travel at the same time each day? More or less. Usually about 07:10 at Tower Hill. Which completely explains the D stock issue as I'm likely catching the same trains. Tomorrow i'll have to make a note of the train numbers. Although I do remember they didn't tally with the D stock nominated workings. A train could be a D stock tomorrow, but an S on Thursday. |
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Post by superteacher on Jun 7, 2016 19:16:32 GMT
Do you travel at the same time each day? More or less. Usually about 07:10 at Tower Hill. Which completely explains the D stock issue as I'm likely catching the same trains. Tomorrow i'll have to make a note of the train numbers. Although I do remember they didn't tally with the D stock nominated workings. A train could be a D stock tomorrow, but an S on Thursday. They hardly ever tally with the nominated D stock workings, and never have done. Always strikes me as a waste of time writing lists that are never adhered to. However, there is a hard core of workings that do tend to always be D stock, except where trains have been reformed after disruptions. These are: 4, 10, 15, 32, 63, 67, 125. The other nominated workings are as likely to be S as D, with D stock appearing on other workings which are meant to be S! |
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Post by Dstock7080 on Jun 8, 2016 8:16:38 GMT
More or less. Usually about 07:10 at Tower Hill. Which completely explains the D stock issue as I'm likely catching the same trains. Tomorrow i'll have to make a note of the train numbers. Although I do remember they didn't tally with the D stock nominated workings. A train could be a D stock tomorrow, but an S on Thursday. Today from Tower Hill WB: 0708 T4 D 7016 0710 T6 D from pfm.2 7040 0712 T5 S 0714 T101 D 7504 0716 T32 D 0719 T31 S 0725 T55 S 0727 T102 D 7070 0728 T7 |
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Post by class411 on Jun 8, 2016 9:29:05 GMT
On the other hand, I turned up on a District line platform randomly last week and the first three trains I saw were D stocks! I decided to calculate the likelihood of our two observations. I just worked on a simplistic ratio of the numbers of the two stocks available. The chances of your result are 1/125 and thus, given the number of underground passengers, something that many people would experience. The chances of mine are so absurdly small that I'm pretty sure that I must have missed a few D-Stocks. Unless their workings tend to be grouped around earlier and/or later periods. |
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