S stock delivery & introduction - discussion

Ahhhhh, for staff use but public viewing **puts fingers in ears**

The error is actually in the detail of what the trains do, just like you Colin that immediately jumped out at me as a flaw, but when I checked the workings, one of the trains stated as stabling at Upminster actually stables at Ealing Common, so it does, in fact, balance!

8.07 was correct! Unfortunately my picture on my phone is a bit blurry

Cool but it doesn't appear to be running often at all during the day. I know this will change over the year.

Think there should be transverse seats for the District main allocation.

Strange how the transverse seats go first on the D78s.

S7 layout was chosen without public consultation.

Last research I was involved with confirmed that passengers prefer a mix of seating as on the S8s.

The transverse seats are awful - they take up so much space to seat hardly any people and make it very uncomfortable for anyone having to stand in that area.

There is a reason why, since time immemorial, passenger seats in all modes of transport, from stagecoaches to aircraft, have faced forwards or backwards.
Longitudinal seats are less comfortable - any acceleration or deceleration pushes you against your neighbours, instead of applying force through the seat back.

I am sure I am not the only one to suffer motion sickness in longitudinal seats.

I don't think transverse seats do take up more space - a seated passenger takes up the same area either way round. The reason there is more standing space in a 378 than in, say, a 377 is because there are so few seats.
And in face-to face seating he legroom is effectively shared. Longitudinal seats generally make the gangways wider, that's all.

If someone is using a second seat as a luggage rack to the exclusion of a standing passenger, it makes no difference whether it's transverse or longitudinal: just ask them to move it. (Usually a hard stare is enough!)

Well the reason generally given is that you can fit more people on a train which only has longitudinal seats as there's more standing room. However, you can fit more transverse seats in a carriage than you can fit longitudinal seats. You can seat more passengers with transverse seats, but - ultimately - your carriage will be able to take fewer people overall. As such, transverse seating is popular on routes where people regularly make long trips, because they need a lot of seats, because people don't want to have to stand for an hour. Longitudinal seating is popular on routes where people make short trips, because you can fit more people and they will usually be happy enough standing for twenty minutes or so.

Also norbitonflyer is absolutely right, transverse seats are more comfortable and apparently - given a free choice between a transverse seat and a longitudinal seat - more people choose the transverse seat. So they're more popular in that way as well. They also offer nicer views out of the window, generally speaking. Moreover, as I think has been mentioned, among passengers a mix of seats is generally considered the best environment to travel in. Among train operating companies, longitudinal seats allow you to carry more people. This does mean more money, but it also can mean more comfort - in the sense it might help with crowding.

For what its worth, I find transverse seating quite cluttered, I always felt the old A stock had a very cramped and cluttered feel and I got a little claustrophobic. It's also very awkward when you have to slide past someone to take the end seat by the window - with your bottom in their face - especially if you do have a bag or something and then you have to do it all again to get off. I also (and I'm short) tend to find my knees are a little too close to the knees of the person in front. However, I do - despite this - almost always take a transverse seat on an S8 (given a choice) because the views are better and it is a nicer ride.

Regarding luggage and transverse seats. Many years ago when travelling on the National Rail network a Guard asked me to move a plant that I had placed on the (transverse) seats opposite me or pay for a ticket for said plant, I replied that as there was only three other passengers in the carriage I thought they were being a little "over officious". They persisted, the plant was moved and a three page letter of complaint was written to the TOC involved. I finished the letter by enquiring what far would be charged, as the plant was less than five years old and under-fives travel free.

They replied, with appropriate apologies for their staff and clarified that: "Under-fives are expected to travel on their parent's lap, thus not occupying a seat". The author also saw the funny side as they finished their letter with the closing statement that "I hope your plant will feel able to travel with us again."


As for transverse seats offering a better view, I am reminded of this:

With regards to staring at the side of faces when sitting on the side facing seats looking at the transverse seats, is that better than when the trains are full and people are standing as it is not pleasant having to look at the bottoms or fronts of people standing right in front of you. I know this happens on tube stock too, but the height of the seats on S stocks seem to give a different view!

Still the S Stock (S8) have to do two things, provide high capacity for central London and seats for longer distances. I still get annoyed though having to stand past Ricky in my way home!

I saw two with Upminster as the destination this morning, didn't get to see the train numbers as I was on a train heading the other way. I'd guess one was 124 and one was 65, looking at the WTT. Is it just two trains being used in service at the moment?

The train I was on this morning (435 I think - whatever was on T076 on 20/1/15) was a bit odd. The doors all opened late, and at different times to each other, and there were 4 warbles instead of 3. Most odd, and more awful to listen to than usual when the doors open

One which is apparently fairly common if my experience of commuting via the northern Circle is anything to go by.