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Post by redsetter on Dec 26, 2010 15:30:11 GMT
there looks in some cases that there are a doubling of fare increases in line for users of this line.the term "simplifying" is used however the reality is over doubling in costs of off peak fares',this will hit non central london users the most as they will in effect be paying the same,tfl have not elaborated on and not surprisingly under underlined why these fares are justified as fare payers would naturally not expect a doubling in fares'. instead of highlighting the benefits of public transport which they have failed to do though publicity, this completely undermines the campaign totally,and fly's in the face of the environment publicity promoted by the mayor, driving people back into cars'. its agreed many do want to travel to central london but there are many who do not.a number of zones have been "simplified" the zone system particularly for outer london users the cost rises substantially,targeting off peak users is a mistake,these people will either be priced off the system,ask do i need to make this journey, it is no use running a public transport system if people think twice because of cost. the increases were so large i thought there was an error until i read further. oyster and travel card fares now appear identical and for outer met users might as well be discarded as this avoids the possible hassle that can occur with electronic tickets,'there are no errors with a paper ticket.cards have increased to five pounds although refundable a visitor card can still be had for £3,its doubtful if most would bother returning them anyway.more here. www.tfl.gov.uk/tickets/default.aspx |
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Post by Deleted on Dec 26, 2010 15:38:44 GMT
Agh, I've only just seen that the price of an off peak travelcard 1-9 is going up to £11.
This is ridiculous!
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Post by redsetter on Dec 26, 2010 15:52:47 GMT
absolutely bengley,worse is zones outside zone 1 that are face with massive increase there are shorter journeys also that pay the same as this off peak.
Zones 2-9 off peak oyster cap
2010 £5.60
2011 £11.00
in today's climate we are force fed cuts cuts and more cuts,now this what are tfl playing at?. a rise of 20-50p is bad enough but a rise of £5.40
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Post by phillw48 on Dec 26, 2010 16:01:18 GMT
This might make all the difference as to whether or not I will be able to make the meet at Acton town in March. Up till now if I wanted to travel to Acton town I purchased an All Zones travel card. The options I now have are as follows:- Travel to Fenchurch Street and just pay for the relevant zones to take me on to Acton Town. (What zone is Acton Town in?) or use my senior citizens bus pass and make the journey by bus from Fenchurch Street. (Provided there are not too many changes). I do not particularly want to use an Oyster card I much prefer a paper ticket.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 26, 2010 16:03:58 GMT
This might make all the difference as to whether or not I will be able to make the meet at Acton town in March. Up till now if I wanted to travel to Acton town I purchased an All Zones travel card. The options I now have are as follows:- Travel to Fenchurch Street and just pay for the relevant zones to take me on to Acton Town. (What zone is Acton Town in?) or use my senior citizens bus pass and make the journey by bus from Fenchurch Street. (Provided there are not too many changes). I do not particularly want to use an Oyster card I much prefer a paper ticket. Acton Town is in Zone 3. |
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Post by phillw48 on Dec 26, 2010 16:20:23 GMT
Thanks Charlie, It looks as if it might work out cheaper to take C2C into Fenchurch Street and a Travelcard for the rest.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 26, 2010 16:32:42 GMT
Any chance they will reintroduce the zones 2-6 and 2-9 travelcards.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 26, 2010 16:33:57 GMT
Any chance they will reintroduce the zones 2-6 and 2-9 travelcards. Probably not; it's a major increase in revenue for them and would take some hefty shifting to make them go back on it. It does unfortunately blow out the ideas of London Overground's Zone 2 oribtal route  |
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Post by 21146 on Dec 26, 2010 17:03:46 GMT
And the merely "coincidental" closure of ticket offices will no doubt make any switch back to paper tickets that much more awkward.
Who couldn't see this coming? Make Oyster (Shyster?) cheaper than paper tickets to encourage take-up then once a reasonable % have switched over, abolish the financial incentive.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 26, 2010 17:39:00 GMT
And the merely "coincidental" closure of ticket offices will no doubt make any switch back to paper tickets that much more awkward. Who couldn't see this coming? Make Oyster (Shyster?) cheaper than paper tickets to encourage take-up then once a reasonable % have switched over, abolish the financial incentive. It also coincides with TfL's rubbishy rebranding of the oyster card. i.imgur.com/Rt4ky.pngEdited to remove image |
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Post by redsetter on Dec 26, 2010 18:08:31 GMT
tfl have invested large sums of money on a defunct early system something they have kept quite about of recent times'.there was a report about a possible replacement which uses debit/credit cards many would not be happy to use such a direct system to their accounts',the problems of trying to sort out overpayment would be a nightmare involving phone calls and possible other obstacles .the current system charges the maximum fare if the user does not touch out,however the new "simplified" charge equals this amount to outer users' in effect charging them anyway now.
Zones 5-9 such as say chesham to harrow extends the zone 1 fare here too £5.60 2010/2011 £11,these rises have the potential to cause people to consider other options of travel,lines such as the chesham shuttle are at risk with steep fare rises such as becoming a peak only service or possible closure.
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Ben
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Post by Ben on Dec 26, 2010 18:14:35 GMT
Its not even worth posting on this topic. The people that make such decisions or will them along clearly wouldn't have a problem peeing on the fare payer and telling them its raining.
I feel sorry for anyone in a uniform on front line; they may aswell wear a bullseye. Boris should take up smoking. Maybe his haystack would catch fire.
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Post by thc on Dec 26, 2010 19:10:55 GMT
It also coincides with TfL's rubbishy rebranding of the oyster card. TfL's copyright lawyers tend to be very hot on unauthorised uses of the roundel, even for mash-ups, and it is not advisable to cross swords with them. Friendly advice; be careful as some of the things you appear to be doing, from this thread and others, may attract you unwanted (official) attention. THC |
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Post by redsetter on Dec 26, 2010 19:33:48 GMT
certainly the fair increases has our attention.tfl are very quite on that and the steep increase effect more zones then what their site is suggesting at a glance,when i queried my oyster card on the phone the operator was obsessed with it being "unregistered" so what,like many organisations they want to know everything about you but reveal nothing about themselves ,this is another reason a paper ticket is preferable,its secure/private and nothing to do with them,someone pays their fare correctly that's all there is to it not who or where you are.
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Post by 21146 on Dec 26, 2010 19:33:50 GMT
I suppose this is another example of Coalition joined-up thinking. Make travel from outer London into the central area more expensive at the same time as relocating those on housing benefit from the central area to outer London. Looks like a good way of raising more revenue!
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Post by 21146 on Dec 26, 2010 19:35:59 GMT
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Post by redsetter on Dec 26, 2010 20:08:56 GMT
such fair rises are totally unjust,unfair and is quite literally in every scene taking the passenger for a ride,promoting public transport as green when the customer himself is taken as such is bad overall for all those who use the system.
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metman
Global Moderator
5056 05/12/1961-23/04/2012 RIP
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Post by metman on Dec 26, 2010 20:18:08 GMT
RAGE
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Post by Tomcakes on Dec 26, 2010 20:30:17 GMT
Its not even worth posting on this topic. The people that make such decisions or will them along clearly wouldn't have a problem peeing on the fare payer and telling them its raining. Those who make and enforce such decisions all travel for nothing anyway, so they probably care not for those awkward "passenger" beings! |
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Post by Deleted on Dec 26, 2010 22:18:13 GMT
Its not even worth posting on this topic. The people that make such decisions or will them along clearly wouldn't have a problem peeing on the fare payer and telling them its raining. Those who make and enforce such decisions all travel for nothing anyway, so they probably care not for those awkward "passenger" beings! Oh, i thought we was ''all in this together'' |
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Post by littlebrute on Dec 26, 2010 22:19:12 GMT
I was arguing (well I say arguing, more a debate) with a friend a few weeks ago about (in his opinion) TfL's high fares. They're still remarkably cheap for me as I live in rural South Wales and go to London approx once a month and we pay about £3.40 to go to the next town over on a bus and about £5 for a single to Cardiff on a train. To me, even though the fares are rising it's still a reasonable price, obviously to someone in London it might not be but consider that people in the rest of the country have to pay more for a worse service than London gets.
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Post by redsetter on Dec 26, 2010 22:19:48 GMT
chiltern have put out this statement regarding rises,tfl are not saying anything.a fares hike by this amount needs some explanation and deserves the deepest scrutiny,however there is great doubt if a explanation will be forthcoming. www.chilternrailways.co.uk/news/chiltern-railways-announce-fares-increase-january-0i was saying last week i thought lu were reasonable not this week,traveling on buses in london is terrible,although the price has only gone up 10p on a capped fare,its not a nice way to travel. |
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fotopic... whats that?
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Post by Ben on Dec 26, 2010 22:39:34 GMT
Kinda disagree with that in part. You say a single to Cardiff on the train is a fiver right? Do you get a seat on the train most of the time, and what distance is the journey?
A paper single for one zone minium in London is £4.00 atm. I recon the most you can travel on that is about 3.5 miles? That is if there isn't a strike and engineering hasn't closed the line for a week/end. And don't ask about the seat. And then you have to deal with politicians telling you constantly that its all fair and progressive, and this is the necessary evil for previous administrations past mistakes. What does progressive even mean in reality??
Another angle, why should one be forced to pay a fare that includes the ability to travel to somewhere you never wanted to go and pay extra for? If I only travel in zone 6 for a week why should I pay anything that covers me for any other zone?
Zoning's a rip off anyway; before it was introduced it was considered the least workable of fare structures for London. Heres a contentious arguement, close all the ticket offices with necessary redundancies and make travel free. It would probably work out the same in terms of finance, and its been seriously pondered before. And you'd have the benefit that passengers might actually start being more respectful to the remaining staff. Also you wouldn't need revenue swoops, it'd probably help the under-privilaged, and it'd be damn progressive.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 26, 2010 22:48:10 GMT
Even if tfl were to make travel free it likely wouldn't apply to the Met north of Moor Park as it's not in Greater London. This is of course one reason the fares outside of zones 1 - 6 are so expensive.
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Post by mrjrt on Dec 27, 2010 0:52:39 GMT
Kinda disagree with that in part. You say a single to Cardiff on the train is a fiver right? Do you get a seat on the train most of the time, and what distance is the journey? A paper single for one zone minium in London is £4.00 atm. I recon the most you can travel on that is about 3.5 miles? That is if there isn't a strike and engineering hasn't closed the line for a week/end. And don't ask about the seat. And then you have to deal with politicians telling you constantly that its all fair and progressive, and this is the necessary evil for previous administrations past mistakes. What does progressive even mean in reality?? Another angle, why should one be forced to pay a fare that includes the ability to travel to somewhere you never wanted to go and pay extra for? If I only travel in zone 6 for a week why should I pay anything that covers me for any other zone? Zoning's a rip off anyway; before it was introduced it was considered the least workable of fare structures for London. Heres a contentious arguement, close all the ticket offices with necessary redundancies and make travel free. It would probably work out the same in terms of finance, and its been seriously pondered before. And you'd have the benefit that passengers might actually start being more respectful to the remaining staff. Also you wouldn't need revenue swoops, it'd probably help the under-privilaged, and it'd be damn progressive. Ah, but then you have to come up with some way of keeping the dossers/and/or homeless off the trains to leave capacity for those that actually need to travel. And once you make it free, you're going to need dramatically more capacity than you do now. |
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Post by Deleted on Dec 27, 2010 9:44:35 GMT
Unfortunately I have experienced many years of massive fare rises and declining services, however I accept that that is my fault as I should never have lived in the Thames Valley in the First place Xerces Fobe |
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Post by phillw48 on Dec 27, 2010 11:24:06 GMT
There seems to be a policy of turning the M25 into a form of 'Berlin Wall'. Not only is it becoming more expensive to travel into London from outside the M25 in many areas 'cross border' bus services, many of which had been operated by London Transport have disappeared or are merely a shadow of their former selves. As using a car is problematical as parking if it is available is horrendously expensive.
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Post by doug on Dec 27, 2010 12:40:02 GMT
why should one be forced to pay a fare that includes the ability to travel to somewhere you never wanted to go and pay extra for? If I only travel in zone 6 for a week why should I pay anything that covers me for any other zone? ...but then, by that logic, if you buy a hypothetical "zone 6" ticket, you'd be paying for the ability to travel somewhere you never wanted to go (e.g. Upminster, Hampton Court, Uxbridge)... There has to be a trade off between cheap fares and simple pricing. Sadly that means not having the ideal ticket for each series of journeys you may want to carry out. |
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Post by redsetter on Dec 27, 2010 14:56:40 GMT
fares' that have increased around 96% are headline grabbers',the mayor and tfl have left themselves open to severe public criticism and brought the mayor's office into disrepute.i don't know if the bucks examiner has picked up on this or not but its sensational reading.
its a scandal that this is allowed to happen,tfl can keep their "service".
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Post by Deleted on Dec 27, 2010 16:34:49 GMT
Aren't a lot of European metro systems on a flat fare per journey system? Why is that not workable here?
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