vato
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Post by vato on Nov 12, 2010 16:34:39 GMT
Thank you for the info - very illuminating.
To expand on my context, I do admit that 29 minutes is not typical, but I have had sufficient occasions where I arrived there to see the Shuttle leaving already, or where it came back and then waited longer for a subsequent train giving a similar total delay. I managed to change my work hours to allow me to catch the direct trains to avoid this. Hence my disappointment at having to experience this again for another 5 weeks. And of course, like a normal punter, I obviously feel personally targeted by this ;-) I do hope I don't come over as too arsey though, as that is not my intent.
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Chris M
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Post by Chris M on Nov 12, 2010 21:36:29 GMT
the signalling is changed to ensure that any "non-detection" that is sensed by the equipment, causes signals to the rear to be kept at danger. Why is the signalling not set to this all year round? I'm presuming there must be some disadvantage to it that is outweighed by the benefits it provides during the leaf-fall season, but I'm stumped as to what the disadvantages are. edit: clarify slightly |
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slugabed
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Post by slugabed on Nov 12, 2010 21:47:48 GMT
More safety margin =fewer trains-per-hour
There may be more/other reasons though....
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Post by citysig on Nov 13, 2010 14:43:23 GMT
Why is the signalling not set to this all year round? I'm presuming there must be some disadvantage to it that is outweighed by the benefits it provides during the leaf-fall season, but I'm stumped as to what the disadvantages are. edit: clarify slightly The overlaps are longer, meaning much lower line capacity. Failures can theoretically occur more frequently when this signalling is switched in. That's not to say this is unreliable signalling we're using, but the reason it is used is to safeguard against non-detection. It is therefore much more sensitive and prone to "fail" during times when such increased detection is not required. I use the word "fail" quite loosely, as it isn't so much a failure, as an "activation" of the increased sensitivity. |
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Chris M
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Post by Chris M on Nov 13, 2010 16:34:04 GMT
So you're more likely to get false activations (by which I presume you mean a right-side failure mode where a train is detected where there isn't one) with the leaf fall mode enabled, than you are with the leaf fall mode deactivated? The reason this is used during the leaf fall season is to counteract the increased likelihood of wrong-side failures where leaves causes trains that are there not to be detected?
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Post by citysig on Nov 13, 2010 18:58:39 GMT
Yes more or less sums it up.
The signalling switched in at present detects any minor difference in detection, and whenever even the slightest lack of detection occurs, the signals to the rear are maintained at danger. It works by detecting trains dropping each track circuit and in the proper sequence. Any slight change and the system "fails" safe.
When there isn't the same risk of rail head contamination, the same "belt and braces" signalling isn't needed, and could end up being more of a burden than a help.
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Post by 21146 on Nov 26, 2010 11:56:13 GMT
I wonder if anything is being planned for the last day of the Shuttle? LU seem to have lost the skills of producing proper wooden headboards for rolling stock but it would be a shame if nothing was carried on the unit - and I mean something better than the two overlapping pieces of A4 paper which 'adorned' the last Shoreditch! Pity too the branch is so difficult to photograph on, with most vantage points miles from habitation and awkward to reach without private transport. I walked the route once, as best as possible, using an OS Map and it took hours to complete. There are a few overbridges in the middle of nowhere but they were very shadowed from foliage and the low winter sun (if out) won't help either come December.
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mrfs42
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Post by mrfs42 on Nov 26, 2010 13:04:22 GMT
I wonder if anything is being planned for the last day of the Shuttle? Although not directly LU, the Forum Christmas Meet does involve a trip on the shuttle for its last day. |
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rincew1nd
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Post by rincew1nd on Nov 26, 2010 21:54:37 GMT
I wonder if anything is being planned for the last day of the Shuttle? LU seem to have lost the skills of producing proper wooden headboards for rolling stock but it would be a shame if nothing was carried on the unit - and I mean something better than the two overlapping pieces of A4 paper which 'adorned' the last Shoreditch! I can make cast headboards, unfortunately the only one I have at the moment is this:  Young Members Headboard by rincewindthefailedwizard, on Flickr I don't think I'd be able to persuade it to be carried somehow! |
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Post by deadmans on Dec 2, 2010 16:49:45 GMT
I wonder if anything is being planned for the last day of the Shuttle? LU seem to have lost the skills of producing proper wooden headboards for rolling stock but it would be a shame if nothing was carried on the unit - and I mean something better than the two overlapping pieces of A4 paper which 'adorned' the last Shoreditch! Pity too the branch is so difficult to photograph on, with most vantage points miles from habitation and awkward to reach without private transport. I walked the route once, as best as possible, using an OS Map and it took hours to complete. There are a few overbridges in the middle of nowhere but they were very shadowed from foliage and the low winter sun (if out) won't help either come December. A headboard is planned, two people were sent to Neasden today, to take the matter in hand.....  |
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metman
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Post by metman on Dec 2, 2010 20:56:35 GMT
Do we know which train it will be yet?
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Post by knap on Dec 2, 2010 23:31:28 GMT
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Dec 3, 2010 1:05:40 GMT
Just read the article, is it really going to be A stock trains until Sunday then s8 trains running from Monday?
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Colin
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Post by Colin on Dec 3, 2010 1:43:13 GMT
You mean Saturday & Sunday, respectively?
Anyway, no, that article has got it's knickers in a twist.....
It will be 4 cars of A stock running a shuttle service on the Saturday, then 8 car A stocks running through to Baker Street from the Sunday onwards.
This is in preparation for S8's which will eventually run to all destinations & replace A stocks on the Metropolitan line during 2011/2012.
The claim of marking the last day of 4 car shuttles at 12.30pm is interesting to say the least - if they're claiming the service will finish just after midday I think they'll be in for a surprise.....
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Post by Tomcakes on Dec 3, 2010 1:46:28 GMT
I don't see anything to suggest that the last train will be at 1230, merely that the ceremony will be then - no doubt 2330 or whatever is too late for the paparazzi!
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Dec 3, 2010 15:02:51 GMT
There is an event planned for lunchtime on the day.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Dec 3, 2010 16:53:56 GMT
You mean Saturday & Sunday, respectively? Anyway, no, that article has got it's knickers in a twist..... It will be 4 cars of A stock running a shuttle service on the Saturday, then 8 car A stocks running through to Baker Street from the Sunday onwards. This is in preparation for S8's which will eventually run to all destinations & replace A stocks on the Metropolitan line during 2011/2012. The claim of marking the last day of 4 car shuttles at 12.30pm is interesting to say the least - if they're claiming the service will finish just after midday I think they'll be in for a surprise..... Yes i did mean Saturday and Sunday. The Chesham through trains will they be fast or slow trains and will they terminate at Baker Street or Aldgate. |
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Post by Deleted on Dec 3, 2010 16:59:41 GMT
You mean Saturday & Sunday, respectively? Anyway, no, that article has got it's knickers in a twist..... It will be 4 cars of A stock running a shuttle service on the Saturday, then 8 car A stocks running through to Baker Street from the Sunday onwards. This is in preparation for S8's which will eventually run to all destinations & replace A stocks on the Metropolitan line during 2011/2012. The claim of marking the last day of 4 car shuttles at 12.30pm is interesting to say the least - if they're claiming the service will finish just after midday I think they'll be in for a surprise..... Yes i did mean Saturday and Sunday. The Chesham through trains will they be fast or slow trains and will they terminate at Baker Street or Aldgate. Off-peak all Chesham trains will terminate at Baker Street and I'm sure I heard somewhere that after a certain time they will be all stations because they are being drafted from what are currently Watford services. |
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metman
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Post by metman on Dec 3, 2010 17:13:43 GMT
Yes thats what I heard. Currently off peak Amersham trains leave Baker Street at XX01 XX11 XX31 XX41. Towards the end of the day they are scaled down to XX11 and XX41. The Chesham trains will then be taken from the Watford pool of trains probably from the XX23 and XX53 services.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Dec 3, 2010 17:24:48 GMT
From the article above "The Last Shuttle ceremony will be at 12.30pm on Saturday 11 December and Clive believes that LT are hoping to also run a heritage train to mark the event. There will be a speech by the head of the Met Line – and Clive will speak on the history and significance of the Shuttle to Chesham." I think by heritage train they must simply mean A stock ;D As for last shuttle, I class this as the 00.25 C&L - CHM, the last train to use the bay at C&L Anyone hardcore planning to ride on that? |
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Post by Dstock7080 on Dec 3, 2010 17:45:33 GMT
Yes thats what I heard. Currently off peak Amersham trains leave Baker Street at XX01 XX11 XX31 XX41. Towards the end of the day they are scaled down to XX11 and XX41. The Chesham trains will then be taken from the Watford pool of trains probably from the XX23 and XX53 services. Off-peak Amersham's will depart Baker St at xx11, xx41. Chesham's at xx01, xx31. Amersham's are maintained at xx11, xx41 until the last train: ALD2 23.50, BK2 00c08. Chesham's are xx01, xx41 until BK1 21.54, BK1 22.24, BK1 22.54, BK1 23.24, BK1 23.54, BK4 00.23. |
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Dec 3, 2010 19:48:42 GMT
From the article above "The Last Shuttle ceremony will be at 12.30pm on Saturday 11 December and Clive believes that LT are hoping to also run a heritage train to mark the event. There will be a speech by the head of the Met Line – and Clive will speak on the history and significance of the Shuttle to Chesham." I think by heritage train they must simply mean A stock ;D As for last shuttle, I class this as the 00.25 C&L - CHM, the last train to use the bay at C&L Anyone hardcore planning to ride on that? i dont want to speculate but Sarah Siddons is a possibilty |
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Post by citysig on Dec 3, 2010 20:02:44 GMT
As for last shuttle, I class this as the 00.25 C&L - CHM, the last train to use the bay at C&L Anyone hardcore planning to ride on that? That's if it runs. The controller on duty did try and stump up donations to his personal fund. However, the tin is looking a little empty, and so therefore nobody can guarantee what time the last shuttle will run. It's completely reliant on those in charge on the night ;D ;D |
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Dec 3, 2010 21:01:36 GMT
i dont want to speculate but Sarah Siddons is a possibilty you never know but reasons why I doubt this ... Presuming you mean SS running to Chesham 1.) There have been no test runs booked (as is usual when SS is planned to perform) 2.) You'd be reduced to 2 coaches for the final days service (if indeed SS + 2 coaches + class 20 fit in Chalfont bay ? possibly not?) If it wasn't runnning into the bay then it's hardly commemorating the passing of the shuttle! If you're talking about SS running elsewhere ie - Amersham ditto 1.) above 3.) There are Chiltern diversions on the weekend in question, which would limit further the chance to path a special train, with the added risk that if one of the oldies broke down, you would be more likely to incur delay minutes against Chiltern services than on a normal day with no diversions |
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Post by Deleted on Dec 3, 2010 21:52:44 GMT
Yes thats what I heard. Currently off peak Amersham trains leave Baker Street at XX01 XX11 XX31 XX41. Towards the end of the day they are scaled down to XX11 and XX41. The Chesham trains will then be taken from the Watford pool of trains probably from the XX23 and XX53 services. Off-peak Amersham's will depart Baker St at xx11, xx41. Chesham's at xx01, xx31. Amersham's are maintained at xx11, xx41 until the last train: ALD2 23.50, BK2 00c08. Chesham's are xx01, xx41 until BK1 21.54, BK1 22.24, BK1 22.54, BK1 23.24, BK1 23.54, BK4 00.23. I can't quite work this out, what time will the very last chesham train ARRIVE at chesham? I live in Chesham and have once or twice relied on the 01:13 arrival to get me home, this doesn't leave Baker Street until gone midnight, so it's a great service. Ah, okay - I just looked again, it will still be the 01:13 |
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metman
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Post by metman on Dec 4, 2010 11:32:39 GMT
If the 2354 is a Chesham service this means there will be a huge gap in the Watford service between 2344 and 0010!! Will an extra Watford run to close the gap? Say 2358?
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Post by Deleted on Dec 4, 2010 11:52:03 GMT
If the 2354 is a Chesham service this means there will be a huge gap in the Watford service between 2344 and 0010!! Will an extra Watford run to close the gap? Say 2358? bearing in mind there are 20 minute gaps to Watford anyway late evening, 26 mins wouldn't be that huge when compared to the base service remember Watford trains (as opposed to a slow Chesham) only serve 2 stations, both are relatively low in terms of passenger numbers when compared to most others on the Met the Harrow - Northwood section carries the majority of passengers on Watford trains as it happens, there is a train in the gap following the 23.54, 2 and a half minutes later from Baker St, then 4 and a half later from HOH |
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Post by Dstock7080 on Dec 4, 2010 15:19:58 GMT
If the 2354 is a Chesham service this means there will be a huge gap in the Watford service between 2344 and 0010!! Will an extra Watford run to close the gap? Say 2358? Watford's are at: BK1 22.04/14/24/34/44, 23.04/14/34/44. BK4 23.56, 00.10. |
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metman
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Post by metman on Dec 4, 2010 16:19:14 GMT
Wasn't the last Chesham train all stations in the old days too? 0010?
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Post by Deleted on Dec 4, 2010 16:28:59 GMT
Wasn't the last Chesham train all stations in the old days too? 0010? No last Chesham has (in recent years) been 00.23 ex BK fast WPK-HOH, then via the locals north of HOH but non stop Moor Pk, then RKY this is still the case in WTT329 post edit to state - 'depends what you mean by old days !!!' |
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