DWS
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Post by DWS on Oct 5, 2010 21:32:17 GMT
On Sunday, 12th December 2010 a new working timetable will be introduced on the Metropolitan Line.
The Chesham - Chalfont & Latimer shuttle is withdrawn.
2 of the 4 Amersham - Baker Street fast trains per hour will provide the Chesham service, Amersham services are reduced to 2 trains per hour.
During early morning and late evening periods when fast Amersham services operate at 2 trains per hour, the 2 trains per hour Chesham service will be provided by the diversion of 2 of the 6 Watford - Baker Street slow services per hour. In consequence services between Moor Park and Watford are reduced to 10/20 minute intervals and Chesham services will call at all stations.
On Sundays the last train to Chesham will depart from Baker Street 13 minutes later at 23.24.
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Post by ruislip on Oct 6, 2010 1:48:25 GMT
I guess that's also the end of the through Chesham-Aldgate trains during peak flow times.
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Post by harlesden on Oct 6, 2010 7:24:39 GMT
I believe the main Met service should be left totally alone.
LUL should buy/lease buses from a local bus company and repaint them in LU livery to provide a dedicated bus service between Chalfont and Chesham to link to/from trains at Chalfont.
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Colin
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Post by Colin on Oct 6, 2010 8:15:05 GMT
I suspect a public flogging is about to ensue.....
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Oct 6, 2010 9:21:22 GMT
I suspect a public flogging is about to ensue..... So do I. |
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Post by citysig on Oct 6, 2010 9:31:08 GMT
I guess that's also the end of the through Chesham-Aldgate trains during peak flow times. No, not necessarily. They will probably still be there, and no doubt the regulars will still use them (pocket watches and pens in hand, ready to complain at any late running. |
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Post by citysig on Oct 6, 2010 9:33:58 GMT
I suspect a public flogging is about to ensue..... So do I. ;D ;D It will be interesting to see how the residents of Chesham - who campaigned so hard for an all-day service - react to their new "integrated" service. And by integrated, of course we mean that it will be subject to the same service delays and cancellations that all the other branches are susceptible to ;D |
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Oct 6, 2010 10:01:29 GMT
At least there will no longer be platform staff (from the Spring 2011) on the SSR platforms at Baker Street to receive the feedback.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Oct 6, 2010 10:10:23 GMT
Is it possible to add a 'Amersham-Watford reversing at Moor Park' service to maintain the current frequencies to these destinations? Less convenient than direct services, but better than nothing.
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Post by aldenham on Oct 6, 2010 10:16:30 GMT
How early is early, and how late is late? Is it just what is before the am peak and after the pm or really early and late.
I can still see many Chesham passengers getting the first Amersham train and changing at Chalfont, in the hope of overtaking a slow Chesham somewhere.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Oct 6, 2010 10:31:11 GMT
May I politely suggest that the Christmas meet this year marks the occasion on the Saturday the same way that the Circle trip did last year?
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mrfs42
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Post by mrfs42 on Oct 6, 2010 10:52:38 GMT
May I politely suggest that the Christmas meet this year marks the occasion on the Saturday the same way that the Circle trip did last year? It is one of the options being considered, as we speak. ;D |
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DWS
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Post by DWS on Oct 6, 2010 16:23:14 GMT
Is it possible to add a 'Amersham-Watford reversing at Moor Park' service to maintain the current frequencies to these destinations? Less convenient than direct services, but better than nothing. Trains can not reverse at Moor Park  |
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Oct 6, 2010 16:24:07 GMT
At least there will no longer be platform staff (from the Spring 2011) on the SSR platforms at Baker Street to receive the feedback. But LU say that they are moving staff from ticket offices to platforms to assist customers better. I'm confuzzled! |
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Post by Deleted on Oct 6, 2010 16:36:29 GMT
Is this likely to work reliably? Without a third through platform at Chalfont I can see it being a regular occurrence for a Chesham train to end up being sent to Amersham because it's got a Chiltern right behind it and there's still another train on the branch then resulting in a long gap before the next train makes it to Chesham.
Also, I can see it being unpredictable what time southbound departures from Chesham will be as once a train makes it to Chesham it will need to head back south ASAP to avoid the next one having to wait at Chalfont or divert to Amersham.
Maybe there needs to be a passing loop on the branch or changes to the track layout at Chalfont so a northbound Chesham can cross over to the branch and wait for the southbound train to come off the branch and cross onto the southbound main in front of it?
Or alternatively, after a few months, realise this isn't going to work and extend the bay platform for 8 cars (like the platform extensions at Baker St).
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metman
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Post by metman on Oct 6, 2010 16:41:08 GMT
Divert Watford trains? There will be rage from the Cassiobury crowd!!
Alternatively, just run 4 fast trains earlier and later?
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Post by Deleted on Oct 6, 2010 17:11:09 GMT
Or alternatively, after a few months, realise this isn't going to work and... ...reinstitute the shuttle! |
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Colin
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Post by Colin on Oct 6, 2010 17:34:59 GMT
But LU say that they are moving staff from ticket offices to platforms to assist customers better. I'm confuzzled! What they say and what they mean are two different things  Is this likely to work reliably? Without a third through platform at Chalfont I can see it being a regular occurrence for a Chesham train to end up being sent to Amersham because it's got a Chiltern right behind it and there's still another train on the branch then resulting in a long gap before the next train makes it to Chesham. Also, I can see it being unpredictable what time southbound departures from Chesham will be as once a train makes it to Chesham it will need to head back south ASAP to avoid the next one having to wait at Chalfont or divert to Amersham. Maybe there needs to be a passing loop on the branch or changes to the track layout at Chalfont so a northbound Chesham can cross over to the branch and wait for the southbound train to come off the branch and cross onto the southbound main in front of it? Or alternatively, after a few months, realise this isn't going to work and extend the bay platform for 8 cars (like the platform extensions at Baker St). The Chesham shuttle only runs every 30 minutes. The new through service only runs......every 30 minutes. Even with slight late running, say up to 10 minutes, there should be enough of a window to get a train up the branch & back before the next one comes along. |
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Oct 6, 2010 18:17:33 GMT
At least there will no longer be platform staff (from the Spring 2011) on the SSR platforms at Baker Street to receive the feedback. But LU say that they are moving staff from ticket offices to platforms to assist customers better. I'm confuzzled! 800 job losses, 150 from management/ admin grades, 450 from booking clerks leaves how many customer facing CSA jobs going? Some of the non-negotiable rosters are simply absurd. |
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Post by Deleted on Oct 6, 2010 18:35:56 GMT
Or alternatively, after a few months, realise this isn't going to work and... ...reinstitute the shuttle! I quite honestly think this will happen. It's not going to work, there are too many flaws. |
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Post by Chris M on Oct 6, 2010 18:48:45 GMT
Maybe there needs to be a passing loop on the branch or changes to the track layout at Chalfont so a northbound Chesham can cross over to the branch and wait for the southbound train to come off the branch and cross onto the southbound main in front of it? Well there used to be two platforms at Chesham, but I don't think the disused platform would be long enough for an S8? There would, I think, be space at Chalfont for a layout like below. Whether it would be worth the money required to implement it though I have no idea.  |
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metman
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Post by metman on Oct 6, 2010 19:05:47 GMT
The extra platform was about as long as the Chalfont bay!
Would it really be so difficult to move the crossovers up the line and extend the bay road?
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Post by andypurk on Oct 6, 2010 19:50:50 GMT
...reinstitute the shuttle! I quite honestly think this will happen. It's not going to work, there are too many flaws. What flaws? Running a 30 min through service over a single track line which is timetabled for 8 mins each way? That gives a lot of time in hand for delays to be made up. Pathing over the junction at Chalfont will have nothing like the problems of pathing trains over the junction at Baker Street. Also, if it is possible to run the trains through during the peak timetable, then what is the problem with doing the same throughout the day? |
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Post by Deleted on Oct 6, 2010 19:55:35 GMT
I quite honestly think this will happen. It's not going to work, there are too many flaws. What flaws? Running a 30 min through service over a single track line which is timetabled for 8 mins each way? That gives a lot of time in hand for delays to be made up. Pathing over the junction at Chalfont will have nothing like the problems of pathing trains over the junction at Baker Street. Also, if it is possible to run the trains through during the peak timetable, then what is the problem with doing the same throughout the day? They won't run up the line at all if there are delays and they get diverted to Amersham. |
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Post by andypurk on Oct 6, 2010 19:55:50 GMT
The extra platform was about as long as the Chalfont bay! Would it really be so difficult to move the crossovers up the line and extend the bay road? The bay track would have to be shifted as well, to make room for the extra bit of platform. Not impossible to do, but a bit more expensive than just running through trains |
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Post by andypurk on Oct 6, 2010 20:09:23 GMT
What flaws? Running a 30 min through service over a single track line which is timetabled for 8 mins each way? That gives a lot of time in hand for delays to be made up. Pathing over the junction at Chalfont will have nothing like the problems of pathing trains over the junction at Baker Street. Also, if it is possible to run the trains through during the peak timetable, then what is the problem with doing the same throughout the day? They won't run up the line at all if there are delays and they get diverted to Amersham. How long a delay? Minor delays won't be a problem, with the time available on the branch. If there are severe delays, a northbound train to Chesham can take a southbound Amersham path from Chalfont on the return working. At least with a through train, passengers won't arrive at Chalfont as their connection is just disappearing. |
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Post by Deleted on Oct 6, 2010 20:24:27 GMT
I've never known such doom and gloom 'It will NEVER work' mongering for such a straight forward piece of railway timetabling/operation !!!
Compared to the 'It will NEVER work - Extended Circle Brigade' this is a mere stroll in the park!
There will be through fasts to Chesham in the Peak, at roughly the same intervals as they run at present
In respect to diverting the Watfords, in terms of 'how late is late', it would make sense for this to kick in when the (present) Amershams drop from 4 to 2 tph, ie post 21.31 ex Baker Street until C.O.T
As for passing loops, extending the bay etc, hey ... why not make Chesham double track with 3 platforms and have a 'hot spare' stood there all day?
Not like there's an austerity drive on is it !?!
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Post by Deleted on Oct 6, 2010 20:30:14 GMT
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mrfs42
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Post by mrfs42 on Oct 6, 2010 21:46:50 GMT
Me and my big mouth! If it's that date I probably won't be able to make it as middle Daughter will be performing in a Christmas carol service in Portsmouth early that evening! When I saw the note from school today a word flashed through my mind that cannot be repeated here.......  Shame. I'd have probably used a similar word if I had to go to a carol service. ;D |
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Post by railtechnician on Oct 6, 2010 23:06:42 GMT
Mmm! Why not run a triangular service from Amersham via Watford to Baker Street/Aldgate interleaved with direct Amersham and Watford services to the city. Clever timetabling might weight the services appropriately into the city in the mornings and out of the city in the afternoons.
Of course the customers will grumble at anything and everything so I wouldn't worry too much as they must be quite used to being mucked about after more than 10 years of never really knowing what will run whence to where on any line as typically the timetables have become little more than a rough guide as to what will ideally run on any given day. (Forgive the sarcasm, the railway simply isn't what is was and hasn't been for a long time, 'service' is perhaps perceived by many as a forgotten word these days!)
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