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Post by Deleted on Dec 19, 2010 17:21:00 GMT
Hopefully things will improve if/when the line controllers learn all the tricks like slowing a n/b Chesham if it looks like it's going to get to Chalfont before the one before has left the branch, ie, send it all stations Wembly - Harrow and/or Harrow Moor Park. Fortunately "knowing tricks" is not part of our job. Most of us have many years of experience, particularly on the Met line (and not only as Controllers), and are aware of the limits of what we have to work with. Slowing down one train has an impact on most of the others, and my colleagues and I have to think of the many thousands who travel to all destinations on the Met and C&H, not just Chesham. We also have train crew to consider as they also have homes to go to and are entitled to reliefs on time. I love armchair controllers, "should have done this, should have done that"! All sounds soooo simple!  |
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mrfs42
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Post by mrfs42 on Dec 19, 2010 17:27:06 GMT
As Met Control stated, this is not a timetabling 'cock-up' Absolutely not! how would YOU schedule the 2tph Baker St - Chesham differently to how it presently is? Funny you should say that, I'm musing on some pencil sketches at the moment. Nothing conclusive as yet. and my colleagues and I have to think of the many thousands who travel to all destinations on the Met and C&H, not just Chesham Quite. Seems to be an awful lot of hot air for only 800 people per day. Knowing that, and if I were empowered to make such a decision, I would simply shut the branch. The umbrella body (T fL) can strengthen the 'bus services to compensate. |
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Post by Deleted on Dec 19, 2010 17:48:33 GMT
If we had a TfL bus service which went to Amersham I would happily say goodbye to the Chesham Branch, but we don't. The local transport is rubbish and the Train is the only way we can get out of Chesham.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 19, 2010 19:09:27 GMT
Quite. Seems to be an awful lot of hot air for only 800 people per day. Knowing that, and if I were empowered to make such a decision, I would simply shut the branch. The umbrella body (T fL) can strengthen the 'bus services to compensate. It's only 2.7 miles between Chesham and Amersham Stations on the A416. When you consider one of those new Enviro400 buses can hold 80 people at a go, then maybe it is the start of the end of the branch. |
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Post by Deleted on Dec 19, 2010 19:47:12 GMT
It's only 2.7 miles between Chesham and Amersham Stations on the A416. When you consider one of those new Enviro400 buses can hold 80 people at a go, then maybe it is the start of the end of the branch. That really is a pretty ridiculous idea. Given the push to reduce car use, the ever increasing demand for rail travel, the sky-high (and non-stop rise) in petrol prices, the fact that TfL do not run any bus services in the area and, oh yes, the need for people to actually get to London for work then this is completely unworkable. If anyone does try to close the branch, rest assured those of us who use it will be reminding our MP very clearly that we can give and we can take away. One final point about 'toffs' in Chesham. Chesham is not a rich town, Amersham is. I'd argue that the people who are getting a disproportionately good service off the Met are Amersham folks who actually use the Chiltern services and not the Met ones. Maybe time to remove the Met service to Amersham and concentrate it on people who actually appreciate it? |
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Post by Deleted on Dec 19, 2010 19:53:35 GMT
It's only 2.7 miles between Chesham and Amersham Stations on the A416. When you consider one of those new Enviro400 buses can hold 80 people at a go, then maybe it is the start of the end of the branch. That really is a pretty ridiculous idea. Given the push to reduce car use, the ever increasing demand for rail travel, the sky-high (and non-stop rise) in petrol prices, the fact that TfL do not run any bus services in the area and, oh yes, the need for people to actually get to London for work then this is completely unworkable. If anyone does try to close the branch, rest assured those of us who use it will be reminding our MP very clearly that we can give and we can take away. One final point about 'toffs' in Chesham. Chesham is not a rich town, Amersham is. I'd argue that the people who are getting a disproportionately good service off the Met are Amersham folks who actually use the Chiltern services and not the Met ones. Maybe time to remove the Met service to Amersham and concentrate it on people who actually appreciate it? Looking at the branch, it'd take quite a lot of works to make it not single tracked. You can't shove more than 2tph down it realistically anyway! |
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Post by Deleted on Dec 19, 2010 20:09:44 GMT
That really is a pretty ridiculous idea. Why thank you Sir! ;D I appreciate and understand your horror at the increase in car use, but that's why I pointed out that it'd probably be a bus which holds 16 times more people per journey and wouldn't cost passengers car parking fees at the other end. It's happened before on low use branch lines and it'll happen again. I think it'll be sad but the minute Tfl decide it to be unprofitable or too much of a problem, or both, they will close it. It's a business. Sadly, as Charlie points out, the idea that Chesham could replace the existing Amersham service is probably more unworkable than anything I've dreamt up. ATB |
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Ben
fotopic... whats that?
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Post by Ben on Dec 19, 2010 20:12:36 GMT
2tph at regular intervals. As Mrfs mentioned on the Chesham meet, the bay at Chesham was put in to allow an additional shuttle to follow the through train in peak times. Since a round trip is ~25mins, it would be theoretically possible, given signalling and an opperational bay at both ends, to run a 5tph equivilant service. And M, don't bait those on high with bus replacements   We all know everyone prefers one-mode transport to multimode! |
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Post by Deleted on Dec 19, 2010 20:17:19 GMT
2tph at regular intervals. As Mrfs mentioned on the Chesham meet, the bay at Chesham was put in to allow an additional shuttle to follow the through train in peak times. Since a round trip is ~25mins, it would be theoretically possible, given signalling and an opperational bay at both ends, to run a 5tph equivilant service. And M, don't bait those on high with bus replacements We all know everyone prefers one-mode transport to multimode! It's already been pointed out how unfeasible reintroducing the second bay at Chesham would be - it's waaaay too short with no room to extend. |
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Ben
fotopic... whats that?
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Post by Ben on Dec 19, 2010 20:47:37 GMT
Well exactly. As has been catagorically stated, the shuttle is dead. Long live the shuttle. :X
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Post by Deleted on Dec 19, 2010 20:57:05 GMT
Nice one Met Controller on "armchair controllers" - like my dig on armchair timetablers !
As the great railway man Peter Rayner said after a rough peak in Liverpool St , when as ASM he had about 5 mins to consider the implications of a points run through and the effect on the service - he faced a barrage of post incident enquiries by people who sat in a warm office with no stress and a large track map on the desk and no pressure to react at 5am !!! You can only do your best at the time , and doing something is better than nothing !!!
(says he who did some regulating in the snow yesterday)
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Post by Bighat on Dec 19, 2010 23:13:12 GMT
If we had a TfL bus service which went to Amersham I would happily say goodbye to the Chesham Branch, but we don't. The local transport is rubbish and the Train is the only way we can get out of Chesham. Maybe there is a subliminal message there? Seriously, I thought Wootens (t/a Tiger Line) provided a fairly good service into, and from Chesham. Hemel Hempstead is served by at LEAST two routes, T2 and T5. |
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Post by Deleted on Dec 19, 2010 23:38:17 GMT
If we had a TfL bus service which went to Amersham I would happily say goodbye to the Chesham Branch, but we don't. The local transport is rubbish and the Train is the only way we can get out of Chesham. Monday to Friday daytimes there is about 6 buses an hour towards Amersham and beyond! I wish everyone would stop moaning on about the Chesham service and be thankful for the fact that we have any service, a few years back we all thought that we were going to loose our station. It's just unfortunate that everything is going wrong at once  Let's think positively for 2011! |
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Post by Deleted on Dec 19, 2010 23:43:37 GMT
Just out of curiosity, what were the stats for ex-Chesham passenger numbers catching the Chiltern service from Chalfont?
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Post by Deleted on Dec 20, 2010 0:13:13 GMT
I think it'll be sad but the minute Tfl decide it to be unprofitable or too much of a problem, or both, they will close it. It's a business. Sadly, as Charlie points out, the idea that Chesham could replace the existing Amersham service is probably more unworkable than anything I've dreamt up. ATB if railways or any other form of transport were simply businesses then they would nearly all close down. They are actually an economic enabling tool which why governments these days are so keen on them. Beeching days are long gone and we are in another world today thankfully. The days of road expansion are over...take a look at the current transport budget and where the cuts are. |
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Post by Deleted on Dec 20, 2010 0:43:39 GMT
If we had a TfL bus service which went to Amersham I would happily say goodbye to the Chesham Branch, but we don't. The local transport is rubbish and the Train is the only way we can get out of Chesham. Monday to Friday daytimes there is about 6 buses an hour towards Amersham and beyond! I wish everyone would stop moaning on about the Chesham service and be thankful for the fact that we have any service, a few years back we all thought that we were going to loose our station. It's just unfortunate that everything is going wrong at once Let's think positively for 2011! But Josh - they don't accept TfL passes (oyster etc) and on sundays and late evenings that frequency is dramatically reduced, if not eradicated completely. |
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vato
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Post by vato on Dec 20, 2010 2:14:17 GMT
Seriously, I thought Wootens (t/a Tiger Line) provided a fairly good service into, and from Chesham. No-one offers a good service by road to/from Chesham during rush. The roads are simply too busy to allow it in the general sense. And many services just don't show up at all, as my boy finds when trying to get to school. |
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Post by Deleted on Dec 20, 2010 2:55:08 GMT
its back Shuttle is running on the 20/12 just been told by my dmt
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Post by Deleted on Dec 20, 2010 5:28:33 GMT
I just got on to post the same thing! Expecting it to leave neasden soon, maybe i spoke to you this evening ricky nightman? I'm the signaller at harrow
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Post by Deleted on Dec 20, 2010 5:33:16 GMT
And now no driver!!!!
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Antje
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Post by Antje on Dec 20, 2010 6:51:20 GMT
its back Shuttle is running on the 20/12 just been told by my dmt I guess we are now saying that the last shuttle on 11 December was the last scheduled service, and I assume that it is still possible as a contingency plan. (...and is still supporting the S4 idea) |
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Post by thc on Dec 20, 2010 8:31:13 GMT
(...and is still supporting the S4 idea) And who is going to pay for this? Shall we have a whip-round? ;D THC |
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Post by Deleted on Dec 20, 2010 11:43:08 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Dec 20, 2010 11:55:36 GMT
I understand there is a proper Chesham "shuttle" this morning! Confirmation would be appreciated  5116/5117 presently in C&L bay on train 407 |
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Post by Deleted on Dec 20, 2010 11:57:02 GMT
Are they running to the old timetable (07/37 past the hour from Chesham)?
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Oracle
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RIP 2012
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Post by Oracle on Dec 20, 2010 12:02:58 GMT
Mr MC quoted previously The bay won't be going anywhere fast, and will still be technically "serviceable." Seems that he is again prophetic, and for one this member admires what he & colleagues achieve.  I know it's OTT but I keep thinking how similar the Chesham branch is with our local one, the Lymington branch. As everyone knows SSuX it's served by a Class 158 DMU and at weekend/Bank Holidays a Class 450. There are ECS moves MFO to and from the branch for the unit to come from and go back to Salisbury but in the past there was a through train from Eastleigh leaving around 06.00 and return last thing. It's of course a shuttle now, and until recently failed to make any connections with the Isle of Wight ferries. It has at times been replaced by buses. The burghers of Lymington would appear to be in many respects the parallel of those of Chesham. |
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Post by redsetter on Dec 20, 2010 12:13:38 GMT
i bumped into an old friend in aylesbury this morning,he apparently has moved here to from chesham i didnt know,i mentioned there has been problems on the train,the first words were they were going to close it.i hope the problems sort themselves out quickly,chesham was the coldest place last night according to the radio this morning -19,certainly when i was there for sixteen years adverse weather was extremely common,flooding was a problem also the reason why i left and its happened since.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 20, 2010 12:16:16 GMT
Mr MC quoted previously The bay won't be going anywhere fast, and will still be technically "serviceable." Seems that he is again prophetic, and for one this member admires what he & colleagues achieve. If we're doing prophetic now, Met Control, I'll email you my 2011 sporting calendar bets to advise upon As for the bay it remains open and useable until 1) A posession is requested for component recovery 2) The last A stock turns its wheels 3) Not too sure on this one, but I presume all track/infrastructure receives routine walks/inspections etc and whether the bay is covered in such a programme anymore and if not, there 'may' be a 'past it's sell by date', so's to speak where it can no longer be used unless it is being maintained |
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Post by Deleted on Dec 20, 2010 12:42:51 GMT
MetControl
Reply #256 on Dec 18, 2010, 1:59pm
The shuttle is dead. Please get over suggesting any further shuttle ideas. The shuttle will never operate as it did again.
are you sure about that? :-)
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Post by jmm on Dec 20, 2010 13:49:42 GMT
How long will the shuttle be in service?
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We all know everyone prefers one-mode transport to multimode!
