End of the Chesham shuttle

Wouldn't delays be less of a problem if there was a more frequent Amersham service? If Amersham was still 4tph (surely there's capacity for an extra 2tph off peak - extra trains run in the peaks), diverting trains wouldn't cause such big gaps in the service:

The service pattern (not including Chiltern) would be:
Amersham, Chesham, Amersham, Amersham, Chesham, Amersham, etc.

If the first Chesham is late and the second arrives at Chalfont when the first one is still on the branch, diverting it to Amersham and the next Amersham to Chesham would mean that there should never be a gap of more than 40 minutes between Chesham services (possibly less than that as the late train would reduce the gap a bit), or 20 minutes between Amersham services.
If the line is badly disrupted, a reasonable service could be run to Chesham by running any train to Chesham if there isn't a train on the branch - the others and Chiltern would mean enough trains would run to Amersham.

It wouldn't be perfect, but there is no perfect way of running the sub surface lines, and it would be a bit better than the current services.

just to clarify ...

you are suggesting 6tph off peak to C&L (4 tph to AM/2 tph to CHM?)

1) - extra train op resource and trains for what reason???

Have you ever travelled off peak HOH - AM?

FRESH AIR TRAINS !!!

2) - How do you path (robustly) 6 tph to C&L + 2 tph Chiltern

Surely it is still possible to get two or three S4 stock trains built specifically for this branch? If LU needed to they could still run them in 8 car formation simply by coupling them together. Sure, they'd be non-standard, but it'd be better than this rubbish we've got now.

I would suggest it's unlikely the service will "settle down". The fundamental problem is it's a 4-mile branch with an out & back running time of at least 20 minutes. So any late running or out of turn working will immediately cause problems, with no refuge on the mainline. At most similar locations where a branch is used as a destination for a mainline service (e.g. Mill Hill East, and also Redditch in Birmingham) there's always an additional platform or loop for a train to go if the branch is occupied.

Likewise Harrow is a bad place for crew reliefs as there's nowhere to stable trains if a relief Train Operator is unavailable.

These are fundamental problems with the revised structure, slicker working will only go some of the way to improving the situation.

I suspect the long-term solution for Chesham will eventually end up being Chiltern operating the branch, or maybe the possibility of a Chesham to Watford service might be considered.

I know the trains aren't crowded, but that isn't the point. The reason is that if more trains are run it should be easier to run some sort of service to both Amersham and Chesham when there are delays.
Another option would be to run a Chesham - Watford service off peak (with through trains to London in the peaks, when there might not be any capacity at Watford), but running trains on that side of the triangle could cause more delays.

8 tph = trains on average 7.5 minutes apart. I know the signalling means you can't run a very frequent service on that part of the line, but surely 8 tph is possible.

Removes operational flexibility. Also remember that the trains are bar coupled across the NDMs and DMs, as being walkthrough. DM-NDM-NDM-UNDM+UNDM-NDM-NDM-DM is how the S8s are formed.

You'd have to order more than one train too (and a new order would be costly)

Indeed, but a lot less likely on a 20-min journey from Watford than a journey from Baker Street and Aldgate.

Maybe even a Chesham - Rickmansworth service could be run, reversing via the south sidings. This would basically emulate the shuttle but avoid the need to lengthen the bay platform. Unfortunately the drawback would be it would tie up 2 trains of S stock, therefore quadrupling the number of cars used for the service compared to the old shuttle.

8 tph is of course possible, I just think the timetable would look rather odd

try and join your idea onto the present off peak met timetable

you would be serving C&L with 6 Mets an hour, but with a 15 minute gap twice (for Chiltern), it means strange intervals from London and how would you kick 2 trains out of Baker St 7.5 minutes apart (bearing in mind the Watford service presently occupies one bay all day long) ?

it would be a poor timetable in my opinion just to carry 'MORE' fresh air at the north end of the Met!

and going back to my original point - it costs money to run trains !!!

we are in a recession and LU is trying to cut costs, why would you want to run more trains to a part of the line that is very quiet off peak in terms of passengar loadings

by loading the railway up with more trains, if there is service disruption, you potentially end up having more problems (trains) to deal with !!!

another option that costs trains

Chesham people lose out on their through journey

this service involves tipping out a train on the main line

those 3 points alone outweigh any potential benefits and with this option I am presuming you retain 4 off peaks to Amersham carrying nobody?

It is also likely to cost 3 trains to operate a 2 tph service from Ricky to Chesham when you take a look at how such a service would work based on the current timetable

Was that anything other than a static exhibit?



The disused platform at Chesham is significantly shorter than the operational one and I'm 95% certain that it could not accommodate an S8. I'd be very surprised if installing a passing loop was more expensive than extending and reinstating a disused platform. Given that the passing loop has been ruled out as too expensive I think Chesham gaining a second platform is a complete non-starter.

Using Moorgate to reverse causes i) Yet more additional trains in service/train operators required (now 6?) = more £££ ii) flat junction confliction against the IR circle which would need to be scheduled and therefore run the risk of delaying these services

You can't keep adding more and more trains to the off peak as the maintenance cycle could be adversely affected.

HOH to Amersham/Chesham simply does not warrant 6 Met trains in the off peak (plus the 2 Chilterns). Let's face it, it doesn't warrant the present 4 and the fact that Chesham now has a through service may be the only reason why 4 tph has been retained (thinking along the lines of government cost cutting/belt tightening)

Every time I have been up that end of the Met between 1030 and 1500, I have usually been the only person in my carriage

As Met Control stated a while back, Chesham has now joined the big railway and will now suffer the delays of the big railway

Theres always the risk that delays will occur and intervals widen, but as the controllers gain more experience in operating the new service pattern, I'm sure these will become less noticeable

You simply don't increase service levels in anticipation of a problem that may happen once or twice a week , which effectively results in widened intervals on the Chesham branch, affecting only a small number of passengers!

I realise that, and that is why I didn't suggest it at first, but it would also increase the service level on that part of the Circle, which is very busy, and probably does need more trains.

Even with 6 more trains, I don't see why that would be a problem. The Met now has more trains than it did a few years ago, when A stock ran on the ELL. Back then the line had 53.5 trains, and when all the S stock is in service it will have 58.

Recently TfL has done nothing but waste money (replacing the bendies, New Bus For London, etc. - maybe also S8 stock ) Running a reduced Amersham service would hardly save any money at all compared to the amount spent on those projects, meaning all they would be doing is saying "look at me, I'm saving money". Also, reducing the service to 2 tph could put most people off using the line.

I don't think the trains are that empty. Sometimes you can get a carriage to yourself, but not always.

Yes, but LU shouldn't use that as an excuse, and do nothing to improve the service.

As I've already said, the extra trains wouldn't only be at the north end of the Met. They would be useful further south, especially on the Circle (if they ran to Moorgate or Aldgate).

Before we descend completely into a "what if" thread...

The timetable as it stands will basically stay as it is.

There are 2 main problems currently affecting the service (other than infrastructure failures of course, of which the Met is taking more than it's fair share of lately.)

Problem 1 is (or are) the new crew reliefs at Harrow. Not only have reliefs more or less tripled, but the staff dealing with them have also changed. Some staff members are new to the line and are still getting to grips with the service. Efforts are in process to smooth out the lumps and bumps here, but keep in mind that the staff have had a bit of a baptism of fire when the failures outside of their control are added.

Problem 2 is the Chesham service.
Whilst some of us always knew it could be problematic, it has gone ahead. Now plans are being discussed to improve it's reliability.

We are more than a little aware that Met passengers are more than a little annoyed this week. We have heard from the various commuter groups (and somehow I feel their members are here as well).

Some may ask why both problems were introduced at the same time. The simple answer is that I don't think anyone could foresee that either change would cause as many problems as it has.

My point on train maintenance is not about total numbers of trains - yes there are easily enough trains to allocate to the extra service you propose.

Presently 15 trains stable between the peaks on the Met. If you were to introduce your 'extra' Amersham service, this would mean only 9 stable.

This would put more pressure on train maintenance overnight and either i) compromise the reliability levels or ii) require yet more £££ to pay for additional staff to handle this workload

These trains get maintenance etc between the peaks and if you have more and more all day runners, such schedules may be compromised.

In respct to the additional services to the City, you should look to provide these by extending existing services, ie the current 2tph (combined 4) Amershams and or Cheshams, not introducing a new service at the north end of the met carrying fresh air, to be justified by providing extra capacity in the city

the 16tph service off peak, HOH - BAK has been round for a number of years and seems to do the job in terms of demand on this section of the line